Pattons_Ghost

M1A1??? T64BV and Type 90

ok im going to get right into my discussion about the new vehicles added in the new update(1.79) 

 

1st/ type 90  Entered service in 1989. ok its still being used TODAY in the JSDF

2nd/ T-64BV add-on armor package was in 1985. and is still in use by smaller countries

 

let us look at the time period of these tanks  1985 - Present (counting the type-90 and T64BV)  

 

OK now to look at the M1A1 Abrams......About 6,000 M1A1 Abrams were produced from 1986–92     this falls into the service period of the other two tanks above. so why do we not have it? Dont get me wrong the M1 Abrams is a good tank but in WT its fighting vehicles 10 to 15 years ahead its time.

 

 

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/type_90.htm

 

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_tank_heavy_armoured_vehicles_u/t-64bv_main_battle_tank_data_sheet_specifications_information_description_pictures_video.html

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_M1_Abrams

 

ok, I'm done with this post I would love a response from a Gijin dev.(BTW all links above have the info i have stated in this post)

 

 

Have a good day  

_Catweazle_63 (Posted )

Please use the correct forums to create threads, for now this has been moved to > Machinery of War Discussion > Ground Forces Discussion
  • Confused 6
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because the US aren't allowed to have anything nice. They always have to have one foot in a bucket. Either the nominal performance of the tank suffers, BR suffers, or economy suffers.

 

M60A1 RISE P > 8.7

Leopard A1A1 > 8.3

 

T95E1 > 8.0

T-62 That is better in almost every way > 8.0

 

M60/M48 > 7.7

Literally every other tank at this BR is better > 7.7

 

M1 > 9.7

Type 90 That is better in every way > 9.7

 

The entire US tree is redundant and useless right now. It has nothing to offer other than T29 and M103.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 8
  • Upvote 5
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem really stems from being able to balance out these tanks. The M1 was able to have M833 which would pen (according to mined data files(these may be outdated(don't crucify me))) 475mm of flat Rha at 10m. Couple that with its mobility and it's survivability and you've got a recipe for a bunch of angry people. Would I love to have M833? Absolutely, it would turn the tank into a point and click adventure and make it a 1 shot machine. Do I think its needed to stay competitive in the current meta? Kinda, yea. I feel like the Abrams would benefit more from the IP (Improved performance) modification, more than anything. Also something needs to be done about the ammo rack and  blast doors that were screwed after the nerf. Apparently a load of 24 sabot loads half HEAT inside the rack for whatever reason.

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All these people whining about yhe Abrams not competing... smh

The abrams is already so meta for war thunder that we don't need any new variants yet. Saying the USA can't have nice things shows that all you want is to sealclub. Nobody complained then Chieftains and M60A1s from the 70s were facing T55s and T54s from the 50s now were they?

The Abrams is doing just fine up there witb the 2a4 and the type 90. I'd starf worrying about the T64BV and the (still) completely broken challenger.

  • Thanks 2
  • Upvote 13
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, JG3_Luftwaffle said:

All these people whining about yhe Abrams not competing... smh

The abrams is already so meta for war thunder that we don't need any new variants yet. Saying the USA can't have nice things shows that all you want is to sealclub. Nobody complained then Chieftains and M60A1s from the 70s were facing T55s and T54s from the 50s now were they?

The Abrams is doing just fine up there witb the 2a4 and the type 90. I'd starf worrying about the T64BV and the (still) completely broken challenger.

Then the Leopard 2A4 and Type 90 can go to 10.0. Or, everyone can simply stop playing US top tiers. It's pretty simple.

 

I love the arguments of "well there are other tanks in War Thunder that are broken and underperforming, so yours should too!" 

  • Confused 3
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think M1 Abrams has alot of Options to be adjusted if it needs to.

 

  • They could give the M833 Rounds
  • Make M774 Stock
  • Add Upgrade to get the M1IP Turret
  • And I heard from some People that the Skirts can be out of composit

 

As of new Vehicles, I personally would not go any further then we are now. In my Opinion we are now in a Point there every Nation can get a competitive lineup without power creeping the old stuff into a useless state.

 

If I could decide which stuff gets added. I would probably add:

  • Late Type 74 variant, with good ammo for Japan or an STC what ever would be a useful Backup for the Type 90
  • A T-80 or T-72 for Russia.(Focus of Mobility) Armour should not be massively better than it is now.
  • Either a new Challanger with better Protection (especially on frontal weak spots) or a modern Vickers variant.
  • FCS Implementation which lets you only fire when the Gun actually aligns with where you want to shoot.(Would make the High Tier French without stab much more usable)
  • Maybe a more versatile SPAA for the US.

 

 

 

 

medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, CPT_Reicon said:

I think M1 Abrams has alot of Options to be adjusted if it needs to.

 

  • They could give the M833 Rounds
  • Make M774 Stock
  • Add Upgrade to get the M1IP Turret
  • And I heard from some People that the Skirts can be out of composit

 

As of new Vehicles, I personally would not go any further then we are now. In my Opinion we are now in a Point there every Nation can get a competitive lineup without power creeping the old stuff into a useless state.

 

If I could decide which stuff gets added. I would probably add:

  • Late Type 74 variant, with good ammo for Japan or an STC what ever would be a useful Backup for the Type 90
  • A T-80 or T-72 for Russia.(Focus of Mobility) Armour should not be massively better than it is now.
  • Either a new Challanger with better Protection (especially on frontal weak spots) or a modern Vickers variant.
  • FCS Implementation which lets you only fire when the Gun actually aligns with where you want to shoot.(Would make the High Tier French without stab much more usable)
  • Maybe a more versatile SPAA for the US.

 

 

 

 

 

:facepalm: We dont need a new Challenger we just need the one we have fixed as its completely broken. 

  • Upvote 7
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Ghost_Rider12 said:

 

:facepalm: We dont need a new Challenger we just need the one we have fixed as its completely broken. 

 

I would prefer a Lineups with 2 Tanks as I think that the Chieftain MK 10 is far from being agile enough for 9.0+ Meta. 

 

And I agree that we don't need a second Challenger as it is just more of the same. Something which compensates the Challengers weaknesses would be nice.

medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would agree for M1A1 if the Leopard with C tech and other stuff went live, but they where reduced back to B tech armor. What M1 really needs is a proper performing M774. Then maybe they can swich the turret to the M1IP one that would allow Abrams to be immune to any HEAT in game and most of APFSDS too. Nothing else is really needed for now. M833 would wreck even worse than a proper performing M774, and M1A1 would have M829 that would be like using a 500 Nitro Express to kill a cat. 

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

last thing you want to complain about is t64bv while a leopard 2a4 smashes your head in. Its funny how quiet the german players get when they are on rampages in game they go awfully quiet with their 5.0 kdr and 80% win rates.

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since when is abrams not a match for leo2a4? I mean, I haven't played top tier past br 9.0 but it seems kind of clear to me that both are very similar.

-Similar gun; DM13 has almost identical stats to m774, DM23 is 20mm better. However leo 2 has slower reload

-Similar armour; Both around 400mm on the turret cheeks. Leo2a4 has a larger and weaker mantlet. Abrams has larger and weaker turret ring. Leo2a4 has weaker UFP and an easy to pen LFP, while abrams gets autobance UFP and a tougher LFP. Leo2 also has a large weakspot where the thermal imaging sight is. Overall Abrams is better protected.

-Abrams has better internal layout, with all of its ammo in the bustle with blowout panels whereas most of the leo2s ammo is in the hull. Furthermore 3 crew are lined up on the other side of the hull in the leo.

-Almost identical mobility

 

Even if we take the advantages of the leopard 2 to be more significant, the overall difference between these two tanks in minuscule. If leopard 2 has an advantage then it is absolutely tiny. The most abrams needs is m833, and even then that is more likely to tip balance against soviets further without making a difference to germany, as m774 seems pretty capable against the leo2 already.

And bear in mind that even though the service date of the current leo2a4 is 1989, it's still using armour of the 1979 models. It doesn't have the C type armour of later leo2a4s. It also doesn't get DM33. If anything the tank we have is closer in performance to the earlier models, and may as well be a leo2a1.

 

Seriously, if US players are complaining then it seems to me it's just because they're no longer getting 65% winrates like they were before. You actually have opposition now, deal with it. 

 

I'll admit that type 90 looks like it is hands down better then either the leo2 or m1, but it's not got a significant enough advantage to be a problem. Plus Japan currently has nothing else at all worth playing in tier 6, so I'd give them the type 90 

 

Edited by Dantheman66
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 5
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Pattons_Ghost said:

ok im going to get right into my discussion about the new vehicles added in the new update(1.79) 

 

1st/ type 90  Entered service in 1989. ok its still being used TODAY in the JSDF

2nd/ T-64BV add-on armor package was in 1985. and is still in use by smaller countries

 

let us look at the time period of these tanks  1985 - Present (counting the type-90 and T64BV)  

 

OK now to look at the M1A1 Abrams......About 6,000 M1A1 Abrams were produced from 1986–92     this falls into the service period of the other two tanks above. so why do we not have it? Dont get me wrong the M1 Abrams is a good tank but in WT its fighting vehicles 10 to 15 years ahead its time.

 

 

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/type_90.htm

 

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_tank_heavy_armoured_vehicles_u/t-64bv_main_battle_tank_data_sheet_specifications_information_description_pictures_video.html

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_M1_Abrams

 

ok, I'm done with this post I would love a response from a Gijin dev.(BTW all links above have the info i have stated in this post)

 

 

Have a good day  

ur very wrong, soviet main battle tank in 1985 was T80U-BV, T64BV was a modernization of a old and obsolete 1960-70 tank for export and reserve.

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CPT_Reicon said:

 

I would prefer a Lineups with 2 Tanks as I think that the Chieftain MK 10 is far from being agile enough for 9.0+ Meta. 

 

And I agree that we don't need a second Challenger as it is just more of the same. Something which compensates the Challengers weaknesses would be nice.

 

I think MK10 is finally out to pasture.  I was grinding it before the patch and doing well, mostly because the Leo's were preoccupied with Abrams.  Now that the teams are flooded with Leo's and possibly Type90's it just impossible to go anywhere.  If I late spawn I get killed 50ft from spawn very often, if not then I just get cant get a shot at anyone without overtly exposing myself.  If I find a covered route, the battle is over by the time I go anywhere.  It used to be pretty good at bouncing darts, but the new tanks pen it effortlessly. 

 

In the end the only thing you have to work for is an apparently broken Chally with more APDS.

  • Sad 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, nayfas2 said:

ur very wrong, soviet main battle tank in 1985 was T80U-BV, T64BV was a modernization of a old and obsolete 1960-70 tank for export and reserve.

Soviets never exported t64s.

They had three mbts at the time which were t-72s primarily, t-64s and t-80s. In 1985 I think they had the t-80bv, not t-80u, which was a later modification.

In game t-80bv would probably be the best counterpart to m1/leo2/type 90

Edited by Dantheman66
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, JG3_Luftwaffle said:

All these people whining about yhe Abrams not competing... smh

The abrams is already so meta for war thunder that we don't need any new variants yet. Saying the USA can't have nice things shows that all you want is to sealclub. Nobody complained then Chieftains and M60A1s from the 70s were facing T55s and T54s from the 50s now were they?

The Abrams is doing just fine up there witb the 2a4 and the type 90. I'd starf worrying about the T64BV and the (still) completely broken challenger.

 

Its been one day of the new patch. Once more Leo 2A4s and Type 90s show up, there won’t be much reason to play the Abrams. 

 

I’m not saying we need the M1IP, yet, but we do need the M833. 

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Type 74 has no problem killing top tier tanks with its m1 Abrams stock apfsds round as long as I shoot first. It needs proper reload though. M1 Abrams gives me more trouble than leopard 2a4 because it's weakspots are smaller and the Abrams reloads so fast.

Edited by omnipotank
  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, omnipotank said:

Type 74 has no problem killing top tier tanks with its m1 Abrams stock apfsds round as long as I shoot first. It needs proper reload though. M1 Abrams gives me more trouble than leopard 2a4 because it's weakspots are smaller and the Abrams reloads so fast.

Except the Type 74 only gets that stock Abrams round as a tier 4 modification. And has less than 20 hp/ton and nerfed gun mantlet and bugged suspension/stabilizer. All of this at 8.7.

  • Upvote 4
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DebtlessWalnut said:

Except the Type 74 only gets that stock Abrams round as a tier 4 modification. And has less than 20 hp/ton and nerfed gun mantlet and bugged suspension/stabilizer. All of this at 8.7.

Since xm1 spam, never gets downtiered as much as it did. Even then, downtiers were rare before this patch. Also, that further supports my point. Type 74 needs fixed and is one of the few legitimate things about this patch that needs fixed.

Edited by omnipotank
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JG3_Luftwaffle said:

Nobody complained then Chieftains and M60A1s from the 70s were facing T55s and T54s from the 50s now were they?

 

Yes they were, I had a swimming pool full of IS3, IS4 and T10M driver tears when the Cheiftain Mk3 first released and they couldn't just sling APHE in the general direction and have an autopen while driving blindly forwards bouncing everything. 

  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ARedneckSquirel said:

Yes they were, I had a swimming pool full of IS3, IS4 and T10M driver tears when the Cheiftain Mk3 first released and they couldn't just sling APHE in the general direction and have an autopen while driving blindly forwards bouncing everything. 

The irony is the chieftain gets penned now all the time in the turret by those tanks.

medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really doubt that Gaijin will not add M1A1 and T-80BV , etc to continue power-creep. :( 

And if M1A1 come out = More people hype.  And then XM-1 come back on sale = profit by Gaijin :vanga:

What Abram is really need is -Gun accuracy fix

Also both UK and USSR are behind other nations now. So they really need to fix Challenger both Armor and shell for UK . And add T-80BV or T-72 that equal with Leo2A4 , Abram , Type90 in mobility

  • Upvote 1
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

I really doubt that Gaijin will not add M1A1 and T-80BV , etc to continue power-creep. :( 

 

Except that the M1A1 with M829 is virtually identical in performance to the Leo 2A4, so that's not power creep, just making things even. And the T-80BV is still going to have the emergency turret ejection system that all Soviet tanks post-T-64 do, along with not being protected from M829 or DM33.

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"BuT mUh AbRaMs!!!1!!" :crazy:

Seriously, though, Abrams has been stomping top tier since it was released

Sorry your meme machine actually has to be played with more than one brain cell now.

Fix the more glaring issue that is Britain at 7.0+, then you can complain about balance.

This is why Gaijin doesn't take suggestions of US vehicles seriously; doesn't matter what they do, US players will just complain if they're not obliterating everything they look at :facepalm:

Edited by Shatterfish
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, muzzleflash98 said:

And the T-80BV is still going to have the emergency turret ejection system that all Soviet tanks post-T-64 do, along with not being protected from M829 or DM33.

At least T-80 will have mobility to go around faster than current T-64. But yeah with DM33 and M829 armor turning into butter. 

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CodeNameColdWar said:

At least T-80 will have mobility to go around faster than current T-64. But yeah with DM33 and M829 armor turning into butter. 

They need a challenger armor package and charm 1 round in the form of a second challenger in the tech tree. Also, l23a1 with proper pen at angles would be nice.

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.