Removing the 4-person-per-team limit on top-ranking vehicles for a match - will this actually solve any of the problem with ceaseless uptiering?

[Rocco_Vargas 104]

8 hours ago, MH4UAstragon said:

In very low BRs, I’m realizing that low tier Germany is completely ripped apart by M3/M3A1 Stuarts, LVTs, and Crusaders.

 

 

Respectfully, I must disagree. I mot enjoy German reserve level ground forces and routinely turn in my  best peformances and highest silver lion rewards in Groun RB using reserve or 1.0-1.3 BR fighting any M3, Crusaders, LVT, T26, BT5 and 7 &c..

Edited May 27, 2018 by Rocco_Vargas
clarity

[MH4UAstragon 8,569]

11 minutes ago, Rocco_Vargas said:

Respectfully, I must disagree. I mot enjoy German reserve level ground forces and routinely turn in my  best peformances and highest silver lion rewards in Groun RB using reserve or 1.0-1.3 BR fighting any M3, Crusaders, LVT, T26, BT5 and 7 &c..

Well the T26 is kinda sluggish but the Stuarts are the most powerful by far.

 

The LVT soaks low tier APHE like a sponge. It is pretty mobile, solid AP at low tier has consistently better postpen than low tier APHE, AND it has a stabilizer. The two rear MGs are mostly useless except vs flak trucks, but they are extra crewmen usually spared from frontal hits. 

 

Stuarts meanwhile have microscopic pennable turret fronts that only rapid-firing guns have a xxxx’s chance in penning, they have commander HMGs able to pen the fronts and sides of many vehicles, the highest pen of any low tier unit, insane speed, fast turret traverse, enough armor to soak all low tier Japanese and French guns flat on, and enough to bounce Russian 45mm and German 37mm when angled. Oh, and they have stabilizers too.

 

The only reason I see German teams win is due to the following:

- the Americans play like morons, which they often do at low tiers

- Germans get squadded with Russians that hard counter Stuarts speed wise

- or the enemy team has too many Japanese tanks that drag them down

 

Low tier balance is better suited for a different topic, let’s get back on subject.

[Anonmoosekaab 88]

Somewhat related:

 

Under the current 4 man max for top BR system, does the matchmaker take into account the number of top BR vehicles in a players lineup?  Hypothetical example:

 

• Teams are Germany vs Russia
• BR range is 6.7-7.7
• 10 players on each team
• Germany's top 4 players each have a single 7.7 vehicle in their lineup, whether it's Leopard 1 or Maus doesn't matter
• Russia only has 2 top players, but one of them have all 3 T-54s while the other guy only has a single T-54
• Balance because their are no more than 4 vehicles at 7.7 per team
• Possible imbalance because Russia can only field 2 7.7s at once vs Germany's 4 at once, German team only has 6 6.7-7.3 players where as Russia has 8

OR

• Teams are Germany vs Russia
• BR range is 6.7-7.7
• 10 players on each team
• Germany's top 4 players each have a single 7.7 vehicle in their lineup, whether it's Leopard 1 or Maus doesn't matter
• Russia's top 4 players all have 3 T-54s in their lineup
• Balance because both Russia and Germany can field 4 7.7s at a once, both teams have equal numbers of 6.7-7.3 players
• Possible imbalance because Russia has a total of 12 7.7s where as Germany only has 4

Does anyone know which is the case?  I hope it's the latter because it's a bit unfair for a single player to be able to hog all the top vehicle spots and that a situation as unfair as described is unlikely.  Removal of the 4 person limit would make this a complete non issue of course

[MH4UAstragon 8,569]

35 minutes ago, Anonmoosekaab said:

Somewhat related:

 

Under the current 4 man max for top BR system, does the matchmaker take into account the number of top BR vehicles in a players lineup?  Hypothetical example:

 

• Teams are Germany vs Russia
• BR range is 6.7-7.7
• 10 players on each team
• Germany's top 4 players each have a single 7.7 vehicle in their lineup, whether it's Leopard 1 or Maus doesn't matter
• Russia only has 2 top players, but one of them have all 3 T-54s while the other guy only has a single T-54
• Balance because their are no more than 4 vehicles at 7.7 per team
• Possible imbalance because Russia can only field 2 7.7s at once vs Germany's 4 at once, German team only has 6 6.7-7.3 players where as Russia has 8

OR

• Teams are Germany vs Russia
• BR range is 6.7-7.7
• 10 players on each team
• Germany's top 4 players each have a single 7.7 vehicle in their lineup, whether it's Leopard 1 or Maus doesn't matter
• Russia's top 4 players all have 3 T-54s in their lineup
• Balance because both Russia and Germany can field 4 7.7s at a once, both teams have equal numbers of 6.7-7.3 players
• Possible imbalance because Russia has a total of 12 7.7s where as Germany only has 4

Does anyone know which is the case?  I hope it's the latter because it's a bit unfair for a single player to be able to hog all the top vehicle spots and that a situation as unfair as described is unlikely.  Removal of the 4 person limit would make this a complete non issue of course

I think its the latter because I’ve been in top BR games with three 6.3s (Ferdinand, Jagdpanther, and Tiger II P) and seen people using more than one 6.3 thing. 

 

So there’s already RNG in player lineups, the matchmaker only looks at the highest BR you have and nothing else. My idea merely would make the matchmaker suck in more people at their own BR instead of having them be uptiered 75% of the time.

 

The limit of top BR units is strangling both ends of the game. Every single 1.0 or reserve vehicle is being uptiered to 2.0 every game. Every 1.3 vehicle is always at 2.0 or 2.3. I’ve been rolling through low tier stuff for Russia, Germany, and France that I’ve skipped over previously and noticed this. French and Japanese guns at this BR are atrocious and this makes both borderline unplayable unless you’re really skilled at tanks like I happen to be with at least 6k games in ground forces. For a new player starting with either of these they’re almost unplayable.

 

Then the 9.7 limitation is strangling the Abrams and making queues excessively long. As a result of said queues people are leaving top tiers because nobody in their right mind wants to take a RakJagPz2HOT or T-55A or Type 74 or AMX-13 HOT and fight Abrams every single game without pause, especially the HOT because it’s unable to squad with America at all.

[Anonmoosekaab 88]

11 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

So there’s already RNG in player lineups, the matchmaker only looks at the highest BR you have and nothing else. My idea merely would make the matchmaker suck in more people at their own BR instead of having them be uptiered 75% of the time.

That would be ideal, of course there's no real way to test this or even try to simulate if it would work since we players just don't have the tools.  Even something as simple as a realtime graph/infographic about what BRs are getting played at what nations and their frequencies would be a huge help, but getting that is a pipe dream when we aren't even told statistics for economy and BR changes.

 

Essentially your idea boils down to a way to get a lower spread without actually getting it, since blackholes would mostly shift from (blackhole-1) to blackhole games to (blackhole-0.3/0.7) to (blackhole) games (due to the matchmaker adding as many of a spammed BR as possible and then filling in remaining spots, preferring adding players who are closer to the spammed BR), correct?  Still possible to have (blackhole-1) to blackhole games, but they are much rarer than under the current system.

 

I say that Gaijin should give this a chance, and I hope that they would share more detailed information with us than usual on results of any internal testing they do.

[MH4UAstragon 8,569]

8 hours ago, Anonmoosekaab said:

That would be ideal, of course there's no real way to test this or even try to simulate if it would work since we players just don't have the tools.  Even something as simple as a realtime graph/infographic about what BRs are getting played at what nations and their frequencies would be a huge help, but getting that is a pipe dream when we aren't even told statistics for economy and BR changes.

 

Essentially your idea boils down to a way to get a lower spread without actually getting it, since blackholes would mostly shift from (blackhole-1) to blackhole games to (blackhole-0.3/0.7) to (blackhole) games (due to the matchmaker adding as many of a spammed BR as possible and then filling in remaining spots, preferring adding players who are closer to the spammed BR), correct?  Still possible to have (blackhole-1) to blackhole games, but they are much rarer than under the current system.

 

I say that Gaijin should give this a chance, and I hope that they would share more detailed information with us than usual on results of any internal testing they do.

Of course, players closer to the BR would be chosen, specifically because as far as I know the current matchmaker already tries to pick people starting at a BR and ends further away if people are playing said things. 

[*Tadz_ 1,789]

On ‎28‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 00:41, MH4UAstragon said:

Well multiple vehicles can share the same BR but be of vastly different overall utility. 

 

For example, all of these are 6.7:

- Tiger II H

- Coelian

- Ru-251

- T29

- T34

- T26E1-1

- M26E1

- M26 T99

- M50

- M56

- T92

- Caernarvon

- Centurion Mk3

- FV4002

- Tortoise

- FV4005

- SU-100P

- T-34/100

- Type-62

- Type 61

- M42 Duster (US & JP)

- Lorraine 40t

- etc etc

 

Often times you might have equal numbers of same-BR units but by far and wise those equal BR units are anything but equal. The Coelian and M42 cannot scratch many of the mediums and heavies at the same BR. Some of the mediums are not comparable to each other either - the Centurion 3, Lorraine 40t, and FV4002 are vastly superior to the Pershings. Meanwhile the T29, T34, Tiger II H, and Caernarvon are hilariously superior to the Super Pershing.

 

You simply won’t have perfect balance, nor am I seeking that. Just a simple removal of the 4-man cap on top BRs to encourage the top BRs to play mostly amongst themselves and forcibly drag people up less often. 

 

Even better would be removal of the 4-man limit (an expected queue time reduction) paired with changing overall BR spread to 0.7 (an expected initial queue time increase, then as more people return to the game, things would drop again). Overall queues would remain the same at least. 

 

I was meaning that there should be an even amount of vehicles throughout the entire b.r. spread of a match. Currently just the top four vehicles are restricted, while the remainder of the line-up's can be a colossal unbalanced mess.

[ryan_chahal 6]

+1 for this

 

On 24/05/2018 at 05:10, *coder-2010 said:

I have been playing WT GF for years, way before the 4 top dog limit, honestly the battles were far better. Limiting the top dogs just means that you are going to have those top dogs in very single battle because there are many of them waiting in the queue. If the MM just ignored that top limit the players waiting in the black hole BR's would all get into battles together much faster and they would not have to always pull lower BR's up.

 And as this guy said if it reduces the queue time perhaps match making could be dropped to +/- 0.7, that will also balance things out a lot while retaining decent queue time.

[Luminoth 916]

I'm up for experimenting with it. Personally, given that there are so many people playing certain br's it wouldn't be hard to imagine being able to fill out complete games with only 7.7 or 6.3 for instance... Leaving this way more breathing room for people playing something other than those br's with maybe matches in which the max br spread is 0.7 at most to accommodate all players in-between the popular br's. 

[MH4UAstragon 8,569]

2 hours ago, Luminoth said:

I'm up for experimenting with it. Personally, given that there are so many people playing certain br's it wouldn't be hard to imagine being able to fill out complete games with only 7.7 or 6.3 for instance... Leaving this way more breathing room for people playing something other than those br's with maybe matches in which the max br spread is 0.7 at most to accommodate all players in-between the popular br's. 

Lots of people play reserves. Lots of people play 2.0. Surprisingly more people play 2.7 than I previously thought. 3.3-3.7 is very nicely filled out with lots of spammy undertiered stuff. 4.3 is a black hole. 4.7 is overcrowded with Jumbo Shermans and upgunned Shermans. 5.7 is “but muh Tiger” territory. 6.3 is currently Germany’s late war domain and with the nerfs to the Pak/Kwk43 L/71 it’s only likely to get more things dropped into it from above. 6.7 is packed currently by Americans and Brits with next to nobody to fight. 7.7 is filled to bursting with Americans, French, Russians, and Blepards. 8.0 is Chieftain/T-62 stomping grounds. 8.3 is the refuge from 9.7 top tier these days. And 9.7 is “muhhhh Abrams” turf.

[Pxyr 3]

 

1

Edited June 27, 2018 by Pxyr
delete

[Pxyr 3]

I really don't get why you think the abrams is a problem now? I've been playing games for the past week and i've been losing games. Even the best kinetic round doesn't help when you have a full team of xm1's against leo 2s. Every german game i go into there is atleast 5-6 leo then the rest is 2a4s or if lucky you get type 90 at your side(rarely}. If i remember this properly gaijjin didn't want us to test out tier v rank planes  because they were afraid if this would happen people would get bored and not strive to get anything else done. Look at whats happening now? Tiier V premiums especially ground forces that contradicts everything said in the past by this company. Basically giving people high tier battles when they don't know anything about the game where is the sense of grind now?

 

 

The leo 2k is more than capable of handling itself vs t64s, I have the say the most tanks suffering is the t64 and challenger. My friends are quiitting this game left and right because they believe gaijiin does nothing to fix anything. But my input is this is decrease the amount of leo 2ks on their team or mix them always. I already get the idea that italian tech tree if released should fix or even make it worse but oh well who am i to say. My final say is that a game is being fixed not by player contribuition but by statistics. If you guys feel happy with how your game is then so be it. But all i have to say is you contradicted and never kept your word. I rest my case but im juist tired of losing all my friends who play this game because they can't enjoy ground forces at all because of super strong german teams. Lost already 10 of them and its gonna keep on rising. So all i beg for is to fix the leopard spam .

 

[MH4UAstragon 8,569]

4 hours ago, Pxyr said:

I really don't get why you think the abrams is a problem now? I've been playing games for the past week and i've been losing games. Even the best kinetic round doesn't help when you have a full team of xm1's against leo 2s. Every german game i go into there is atleast 5-6 leo then the rest is 2a4s or if lucky you get type 90 at your side(rarely}. If i remember this properly gaijjin didn't want us to test out tier v rank planes  because they were afraid if this would happen people would get bored and not strive to get anything else done. Look at whats happening now? Tiier V premiums especially ground forces that contradicts everything said in the past by this company. Basically giving people high tier battles when they don't know anything about the game where is the sense of grind now?

 

 

The leo 2k is more than capable of handling itself vs t64s, I have the say the most tanks suffering is the t64 and challenger. My friends are quiitting this game left and right because they believe gaijiin does nothing to fix anything. But my input is this is decrease the amount of leo 2ks on their team or mix them always. I already get the idea that italian tech tree if released should fix or even make it worse but oh well who am i to say. My final say is that a game is being fixed not by player contribuition but by statistics. If you guys feel happy with how your game is then so be it. But all i have to say is you contradicted and never kept your word. I rest my case but im juist tired of losing all my friends who play this game because they can't enjoy ground forces at all because of super strong german teams. Lost already 10 of them and its gonna keep on rising. So all i beg for is to fix the leopard spam .

The Abrams, Type 90, and now Leo2A4 are artificially limited to 4 per match and due to the sheer numbers of all three in queue everything 8.7-9.3 gets forcibly dragged kicking & screaming upwards to create games for the top three. 

 

Only 9.0 vehicles and better have any chance at all of dealing with top tiers, and even then only if the higher tiers screw up. The MBT-70, Kpz-70, T-62M, Chieftain Mk10, T-64A, and so forth are at varying degrees of capable against top ranks.

 

The M60A1 RISE(P), the now-engine-power-nerfed Type 74, the Raketenjagdpanzer 2 HOT, AMX-13 HOT, and the T-55A do not have the capabilities to kill the top guys unless the top guys are exceptionally blind and stupid.

 

If the four-man limit was removed, we could see whole games of 9.7s duking it out and substantially less people being dragged up to that BR. Same with every other packed BR dragging up everything below it. 

 

Same with 8.3s being packed to the brim with vehicles, and 7.7, and 6.7, and 6.3, 5.7, 4.7, and 4.3, and 3.3, 3.0, and 2.3, and 2.0. These are all the black holes I have personally witnessed. 

 

Uptiers would not be nearly as common but when they would, these uptiers would be a lot harder to deal with. This is the tradeoff. 

 

You could possibly be the only 6.7 user against whole teams of 7.3 and 7.7, but such pain would not happen all that often.

Edited June 27, 2018 by MH4UAstragon

[*ryanka420 96]

Agreed. Please remove the 4 man top tier bs. It's a waste of time and causes alot of que issues.

I had to wait for 10 mins to get a game.. Then another 6 for another and when I got a game I kept getting "connection was lost to the server returning to the main menu"

And my internet isn't the problem if everything else is working fine. 

[Querulous1 3,272]

They should have a general rule that all matches with queue time under X have the top tiers for each team balanced, possibly limited to a certain number. If it applied to every match, presumably it would work better. I am hoping the current situation is only a stop gap until they have a good redesign of the MM and make it fairer in each match.

[MH4UAstragon 8,569]

23 minutes ago, Querulous1 said:

They should have a general rule that all matches with queue time under X have the top tiers for each team balanced, possibly limited to a certain number. If it applied to every match, presumably it would work better. I am hoping the current situation is only a stop gap until they have a good redesign of the MM and make it fairer in each match.

Except my idea is to let all the black hole-generating BRs go ham on each other and not need to drag up the others beneath them so much. 

 

There does not need to be perfectly equal BR representation and if the matchmaker tried to find that it’d be taking forever to create perfectly equal games. Not to mention units on the same BR and even in the same class are not necessarily equal in capability, look at the M26 vs the T-44/85, or the T-34/85 vs the Ersatz M10, or M18 GMC vs SU-85M or still others.

All I’m seeking is to allow more than four top-BR units so they can go have the time of their lives and not need to uptier people as much to feed their appetites.

[Luminoth 916]

17 hours ago, MH4UAstragon said:

The Abrams, Type 90, and now Leo2A4 are artificially limited to 4 per match and due to the sheer numbers of all three in queue everything 8.7-9.3 gets forcibly dragged kicking & screaming upwards to create games for the top three. 

 

Only 9.0 vehicles and better have any chance at all of dealing with top tiers, and even then only if the higher tiers screw up. The MBT-70, Kpz-70, T-62M, Chieftain Mk10, T-64A, and so forth are at varying degrees of capable against top ranks.

 

The M60A1 RISE(P), the now-engine-power-nerfed Type 74, the Raketenjagdpanzer 2 HOT, AMX-13 HOT, and the T-55A do not have the capabilities to kill the top guys unless the top guys are exceptionally blind and stupid.

 

If the four-man limit was removed, we could see whole games of 9.7s duking it out and substantially less people being dragged up to that BR. Same with every other packed BR dragging up everything below it. 

 

Same with 8.3s being packed to the brim with vehicles, and 7.7, and 6.7, and 6.3, 5.7, 4.7, and 4.3, and 3.3, 3.0, and 2.3, and 2.0. These are all the black holes I have personally witnessed. 

 

Uptiers would not be nearly as common but when they would, these uptiers would be a lot harder to deal with. This is the tradeoff. 

 

You could possibly be the only 6.7 user against whole teams of 7.3 and 7.7, but such pain would not happen all that often.

 

I'd really like to see that happen, but I'm pretty sure gaijin wants this to stay as is. A free to play needs you to be frustrated and constantly see the vehicle right above you in br. The one that keeps killing you, the one that you are supposed to want to get or beat. And once you get it, there's something else that is still better than you. It's how a free to play operates and it explains why so many people play 9.7 and such, cause that's where the frustration is finally over and you own the strongest beast in the game... 

[MH4UAstragon 8,569]

9 hours ago, Luminoth said:

 

I'd really like to see that happen, but I'm pretty sure gaijin wants this to stay as is. A free to play needs you to be frustrated and constantly see the vehicle right above you in br. The one that keeps killing you, the one that you are supposed to want to get or beat. And once you get it, there's something else that is still better than you. It's how a free to play operates and it explains why so many people play 9.7 and such, cause that's where the frustration is finally over and you own the strongest beast in the game... 

And that frustration is making people congregate at black hole BRs or just drop the game entirely. So the 4-man limit and frequent uptiering spam is inflicting more harm than good.

 

Because here’s the funny thing: no amount of buying premium time or vehicles helps directly solve the uptiering woes.

[DeKrieg 1,276]

hmm the idea has merit but the only thought in my mind is that I suspect the reason for the limit was because the balance of numbers between nations rather then individual tanks gets thrown out of whack very easily if the matchmaker is not policed to balance top tier numbers.

 

I recall the issue was the game would had issues where one nation had only 2-3 tanks at top br while the other could have 6+ top br in a match. I think you mentioned this in relation to the IS3.

 

And thats not really an issue that can settle as gaijin has little control over the popularity of certain nations at certain brs. I dont think this was ever really an issue with AW or WOT because they dont have nation limits like war thunder.

 

But a lot has changed since it was implemented and below 6.7 I cant really think of a br where a single nation runs away with dominance, it's usually at least 2 nations so the current pairing system Gaijin uses of pairing 2-3 nations if needed to face 1-2 other nations should balance it out. Except players can force specific combinations by squading up.

 

actually just thought of a possible problem, the Jumbo scourge at 4.7 which is spread across two nations (us and france) and I know first hand that some players intentionally squad up across both those nations to force a US/France match vs other nations where if they got top tier they dominate the game. Lifting the 4 player max br cap might see that sort of play get out of control.

[Luminoth 916]

2 hours ago, DeKrieg said:

hmm the idea has merit but the only thought in my mind is that I suspect the reason for the limit was because the balance of numbers between nations rather then individual tanks gets thrown out of whack very easily if the matchmaker is not policed to balance top tier numbers.

 

They should just have as an imperative that the number of top br vehicles on each team is identical. If it's 8 on one side then it should be 8 on the other side. Etc. 

[MH4UAstragon 8,569]

7 hours ago, DeKrieg said:

hmm the idea has merit but the only thought in my mind is that I suspect the reason for the limit was because the balance of numbers between nations rather then individual tanks gets thrown out of whack very easily if the matchmaker is not policed to balance top tier numbers.

 

I recall the issue was the game would had issues where one nation had only 2-3 tanks at top br while the other could have 6+ top br in a match. I think you mentioned this in relation to the IS3.

 

And thats not really an issue that can settle as gaijin has little control over the popularity of certain nations at certain brs. I dont think this was ever really an issue with AW or WOT because they dont have nation limits like war thunder.

 

But a lot has changed since it was implemented and below 6.7 I cant really think of a br where a single nation runs away with dominance, it's usually at least 2 nations so the current pairing system Gaijin uses of pairing 2-3 nations if needed to face 1-2 other nations should balance it out. Except players can force specific combinations by squading up.

 

actually just thought of a possible problem, the Jumbo scourge at 4.7 which is spread across two nations (us and france) and I know first hand that some players intentionally squad up across both those nations to force a US/France match vs other nations where if they got top tier they dominate the game. Lifting the 4 player max br cap might see that sort of play get out of control.

I simply do not know whether it’d be possible to always assure even numbers of players w/ top BR units, and even then there’s a world of difference between say an Ontos and a T34 for example. 

 

But even if it potentially throws game balance for a loop (not like we don’t already have tons of those such as captured premiums, broken CAS implementation, undertiered curbstomper vehicles like Lorraines and the T-62, terrible map design on a lot of maps, etc), minimizing uptiering and shattering the BR black holes is worth attempting removal of the 4-man limit. 

 

Because constant uptiers really suck the life out of every BR that isn’t 10.0. It’s frustrating, annoying, and it doesn’t add anything helpful to the game. Doesn’t matter whether that BR is 1.0 or 9.0 or anything in between. If lots of people queue in a particular BR then teams mostly consisting of said popular BR can go up against each other (case&point 6.7 and 7.7 are both very popular). Right now you’re statistically going to be uptiered 75% of the time in some degree, and certain vehicles are tiered where the slightest of uptiers render them worthless pincushiony garbage (hello Ferdinand).

[KH_Alan 4,740]

5 hours ago, Luminoth said:

 

They should just have as an imperative that the number of top br vehicles on each team is identical. If it's 8 on one side then it should be 8 on the other side. Etc. 

MM should also take into count vehicle type and not only BR. So we dont get 4 (or whatever number) top light vehicles against the same number of heavy vehicles on other side.

[MH4UAstragon 8,569]

21 minutes ago, KH_Alan said:

MM should also take into count vehicle type and not only BR. So we dont get 4 (or whatever number) top light vehicles against the same number of heavy vehicles on other side.

And this is where people start asking for too much - we already have this debacle already and nothing has been done to fix it. 

 

Expanding the # of top BR things would generally ensure that you see a fairly even spread of vehicle types. More people play T29, T34, Tiger II H, Sla.16, and co. than M56, Coelian, Ontos, and M42 for example. Occasionally you’d see screwed up games but that’s it.

[KH_Alan 4,740]

Maybe or maybe not. Lots of times on full 5.7 uptier with Germans we had 4 RUs as top 4 while Allied had 3 T29s and Caern as top 4. Vehicle class should be first MM parameter after BR and than the rest. Not other way around.

[DeKrieg 1,276]

10 hours ago, KH_Alan said:

Maybe or maybe not. Lots of times on full 5.7 uptier with Germans we had 4 RUs as top 4 while Allied had 3 T29s and Caern as top 4. Vehicle class should be first MM parameter after BR and than the rest. Not other way around.

 

problem there is players bring lineups. The game could take in consideration the player's vehicle class in the matchmaker and then you get in the game and that player picks a different vehicle. How many of those RU's might have also had Tiger 2H's in their lineup but they decided to pick the RU instead because they felt it was a better fit for the map or just because they felt like playing the RU or they were trying to earn money on the back of their premium. I dont know about other player's but I always try to bring at least 3 vehicles at the same or similar br's when I play, so I wouldnt have just the Tiger 2H or the Caern in my lineup in my 6.7 lineups either.

 

If they were to account for class in the matchmaker then they'd have to actually inform the player of the effect prior to matchmaking or restrict the player's vehicle choice at the start of the game.

 

Air realistic has restrictions on certain class types (bombers) but thats easier to manage in air realistic because every player only brings one vehicle so both the player and matchmaker know who to restrict and who to let through.