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would you like to see the BT-2 with a single 37mm be added to the game?  

92 members have voted

  1. 1. would you like to see the BT-2 with a single 37mm be added to the game?

    • Yes
      68
    • Yes, as premium/gift/events vehicles
      12
    • No
      12
  2. 2. would you like to see the BT-2 with a 37mm & a MG be added to the game?

    • Yes
      72
    • Yes, as premium/gift/events vehicles
      13
    • No
      7
  3. 3. would you like to see the artillery tank D38 be added to the game?

    • yes
      51
    • Yes, as premium/gift/events vehicles
      34
    • No
      7


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i would like to suggest the frist mass production model of the BT series. the famous BT-2

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the desing of the first of one of the most famous russian lineage of tank (which patch the way for the T-34) is original from a American inventor named J.Walter Christie. predecessor of the BT was an american tank named the M1931 wich was proposed to the US cavalry and was expected to be mass produced after some refinement. however the relation between J.Walter Christie and the US military wasn't at their best in that time due to a failure in the development of a costy tank in the early 20s. while M1931 in himself was a good tanks and the US cavalry tried to improve his design and tried to put it in production (as the tank was accepted for service) but the tank was replaced before it went to production for a cheaper model with better performance.

 

after the failure of a optaining a contract for the M1931 with the US, J.Walter Christie offer his tank in the international market where it was noticed by the USSR. the M1931 was featuring a new kind of suspension which became soon famous and know as the Christie's suspension. the suspension allowed not only a high speed but also an easy conversion between a wheeled tank and tracked tank. in that time, the wheeled tanks was offering a very high speed on the road but a really poor offroad ability while the tracked tank was a lot slower on road but their speed and agility off-road was a lot better than the wheeled tanks. the M1931 required only 30min to do a conversion between the wheel and the track and as the roadwheel under the track was rubbered, the only thing the conversion required was to add or remove the track. this transition could be done anywhere and by the crew of the tank himself. that capacity along side to be possibly the fastest tank in the world really seduced the USSR. the "Deep War" doctrine of the USSR needed such capacity and versatibility. the USSR was in that time the widest country in the world and the large size of the country made it dificult to defend. to defend the country on all his border, the USSR relied on the railroad network wich was importantbut still had his limitation. the road conversion of the M1931 could allow a fast deployment of an armored forces about everywhere and the strong engine and the revolutionary suspension give the tanks an even better mobility. the USSR seized a occasion that the USA missed out of pride. in 1931, a turetless M1931 was illegally exported to USSR as copy template under the false identity of farm tractor. once in USSR, the M1931 was designated as BT-1 ( BT stand for Bystrochodnij Tankov wich mean Fast Tank ), the first BT of all was simply a turetless study specimen to be produced in USSR with the help of J.Walter Christie himself.

01.jpg

once in USSR, the M1931 was sent to Kharkov Komintern Locomotive Plant to be studied, tested and produced. three prototype was produced and was copy of the BT-1 who was adopted to the production capacity of the Soviet military industry who was still in that time, young and limited. the three prototype served as test bed and was turretless but was already designated as BT-2. the BT-2 retained most of the feature of the BT-1 and had little modification over the original model. the few modification was limited to the inside part such as the engine and transmission but also the turret and armament was to be tested. the BT-2 retained three type of turret who was almost identical but featured different armament. the turret was cylindrical with a little sloop in the forehead. the armament was different and was standarized to a single 37mm B-3 gun or a 37mm B-3 gun and a 7.62 DT machine gun or three DT machine gun without gun. the BT-2 soon receive the order for mass production and those leaded to much improvement and to the development of the BT-5, BT-7 and ultimatly the T-34

 

Variant

 

BT-2 : 37mm No-Coax

Spoiler

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this BT-2 was armed with a single 37mm B-3 gun without any additional armament. there was no coaxial machine-gun mounted on the tank which was limiting the capacity of the tank to fight the infantry. but the gun had a HE capacity and also an anti-tank capacity which make the tank still suitable for the game. there is not much evidence about the number of tanks that was armed that way and we can assume that the number was really limited but at least 1 had it.

 

BT-2 : 37mm & coax

Spoiler

bt-2_3.jpg

 

in the wide majority of the case, the BT-2 was armed with a 37mm B-3 gun in the center of the turret and a 7.62mm DT machine-gun on the right side of the turret. the both armament wasn't able to aim at the same dirrection and so for using the machine-gun, the turret had to turn a bit to allow the machine-gun to aim the target. as it was common in that time, the war doctrine was well centered to the trench war and the machine-gun of the tank was usually used to clear the trench. it wasn't uncommon to see a tank with both cannon and machine-gun but the tanks was in that time, not designed to used both at the same time. when the tank was to use the machine-gun, the gunner was simply not maning the main gun and only used the machine-gun for the moment. the main gun was used to fire the HE shell and offer the tank an anti-structure and anti-tank capacity.

 

BT-2 : MG

Spoiler

440778_article_photo_bt-2-s-vyzbroji-2x-

 

this variant is not suitable for the game to me. as the turret is only armed with LMG, this tanks will not be able to do anything to 90% of the enemy he will meet.

 

But still i will mention it so for the form

 

the BT-2 MG (unofficial name) was a standar BT-2 armed with twind DT-28 mg as main armament. in addition to the twin MG, there was sometime a third MG in the right side of the turret as coax. the purpose of this tank was the same as the other exept that his role in combat was limited to fighting the infantry and clearing the trench.

 

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BT-2 : Twin turret

Spoiler

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here is 4 photo evidence that the BT-2 had a twin turret variant. but do not fall for it. they are fake one. those photo was photoshoped. We could add it to the game, but we could also rename the game World of tanks.

 

Spoiler

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Artillery Tank D-38

Spoiler

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this tank have a name that say it all. it was a BT-2 mounting a A-38 turret armed with a 76.2 mm howitzer. at least 1 was built, this variant is not well know and may never went into a real production.

bt-2-d-38.png

 

Armament

Spoiler

800px-37mm_m1930_(1-K)_gun.jpg

 

by the time of the ww2, the B-3 gun was already obsolet and could only damage a german tank by shooting it on the side or rear. the gun is however more effective than the French Sa-18 and have a a larger selection of shells.

 

First there is the AP shell B-160 with a penetration of about 45mm at 100m

second, there is the APHE shell M-160 which the penetration is uncertain

a third would be the HE shell O-160 with 22g of explosive. nobody use those but still nice to have

a forth is the canister shell that is making the gun become a shotgun SCH-160 with 30 & 50 bullet.

Specifications
Weight 10.2 t
Length 5.58 m (18 ft 4 in)
Width 2.23 m (7 ft 4 in)
Height 2.20 m (7 ft 3 in)
Crew 3

Armour 6–13 mm
Main
armament
37 mm Model 30
96 rounds
Secondary
armament
7.62-mm DT machine gun
Engine Model M-5
400 hp
Power/weight 35 hp/tonne
Suspension Christie
Fuel capacity 400 l gasoline
Operational
range
200 km (120 mi)
Speed 100 km/h (44.7 mph) on wheels
55 km/h (39.2 mph)  on track

00.jpg

 

source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_tank

http://henk.fox3000.com/BT.htm

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/06/world-of-tanks-history-section-bt.html

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2015/02/achievements-and-predictions-1929.html

https://www.valka.cz/14758-BT-2-Zrod-v-tezkych-bolestech

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=592

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/soviet_BT-2.php

 

 

Other Lower rank Russian vehicles (possible Tier 0)

Spoiler

 

Edited by CaID
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2 hours ago, Charaqat said:

Need less capable tier 1 tanks to match with the French and expand possibilities. +1

yes, this is my view too. if you add less capable tanks for most of the nation and ajust the BR of the rank 1, you can make the french tanks actually decent. the BT-2 for exemple can still take out the H-35 or the FMC.36 even in a frontal attack, but with a little distance or angling, it become harder.

 

the japanese Type 89 I-Go is also under-performing. the speed, armor and gun aren't good on that one while the shells have good explosive.

the type 89 I-Go had also a few other variants which can also be added to make the new reserve which could allow the Ha-Go be re balanced to 1.3. the type 92 Jyu-Sokosha could also be added in the same BR

 

the USA have a lot of low rank tank or sometime called Combat car (because the cavalry wasn't allow to have real tank) which is literally like the M2 tank with about the same speed and same shape but with a 12.7mm as main armament. it's not normal to consider the M2a4 who have a better gun, better speed, larger crew and nearly the same armor to be consider the same rank as the H-35

The british tanks do not have as much armor as the american M2a4 but their gun can penetrate about anything until the rank III. the british have few tank with another gun that actually participate to ww2 but they still have some older tank that was use for training and reccon. such as the Light Mk.IV and the Medium Mk.1 which use either a 12.7mm or the 15mm or a 3pounder gun who is weaker than the 2pounder

for the russian, it's not normal that the BT-5/7 can be found in the high rank battle and still can make some frag. i think the 45mm 20K gun is too good for be reserve and the russian have some other gun used on tanks in ww2 such as the MS-1 T-18 and the BT-2 who still have better gun than the Sa-18 but not that much. they are just like the BT-5 and T-26 but their gun are weaker and their agility are a bit lower.

 

the German have very few tank with anti-tank capacity before the Panzer II wich later during the war receive the PzGr.40 who are improving too much the penetration. but there is tanks that still can do. the Sd.Kfz 231 Wg 6-rad have the 20mm and probably never used the PzGr.40 (those tank was left behind after the invasion of poland) and the Panzer I Ausf C have a LMG that have really a penetration that can be compared to the 12.7mm and the armor of that panzer I is interesting.

Edited by CaID
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As someone that isn't all that hyped about modern tanks an would rather see more interwar and ww1 tanks and planes, I definitely support this. Furthermore with canister shot you can do some nice clay pigeon shooting. Just imagine a milk truck coming along and you just blast him, or a low flying plane.

 

+1 for all of them

 

Edited by hom3er
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6 hours ago, hom3er said:

As someone that isn't all that hyped about modern tanks an would rather see more interwar and ww1 tanks and planes, I definitely support this. Furthermore with canister shot you can do some nice clay pigeon shooting. Just imagine a milk truck coming along and you just blast him, or a low flying plane.

 

+1 for all of them

 

yeah, sometime, i feel like Gaijin forget what Warthunder originally was.

 

i prefer the fast reload guns of the low tier over the long reload of the higher tier.

but i got to admit, the higher tier tanks are driving around pretty for most of them. it always sweet to use them.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

I honestly don’t know why the BT-2 wasn’t the reserve tank for the USSR than the BT-5, I been wanting this as well as more BT tanks in general, these are my favorite tanks to play in game.  The BT-7 is my favorite, along with more BTs like the BT-2 and BT-3, more BT-5s, etc, which I really hope at some point they add the BT-7M.

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  • 1 month later...

Perhaps the 37mm + MG variant could be the reserve, the MG-less one since was less common would be in an expandable folder, and the artillery one be an premium vehicle or something.

 

Regarding the other low production BTs, perhaps the BT-5A can be an event vehicle, while the BT-5-IS and/or BT-SV-2 can also be premium (Russia does lack premiums between 1.3 and 2.3).

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  • 6 months later...
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I support this 100%. It would be a more fitting Reserve for the USSR, since the BT-5 is more than good enough to be a normal 1.0 and the T-60 is much worse and still not a Reserve. The T-26 was pretty good when I played it recently in the Chinese tree, it has a good gun and the armour's not really any worse than most other tanks its BR, so if need be I think it could also be a decent research 1.0. BT-2 and T-60 would be a much better pair of Reserves to balance out with other trees like Japan and France, so I'm all for it getting added. It'd be nice to have any new BT to take for a spin, too, so it's also worth adding for that reason.

 

I also did a quick search for the 37mm Model 30 gun, and found that it's called the 37mm anti-tank gun M1930 1-K, with the specific tank-mounted version used in the BT-2 called the 37mm 3-K. The 1-K was the first Soviet anti-tank gun and the 3-K version was their first purpose-built tank cannon. The Germans helped them develop it during their period of secret collaboration during the 1930s and as a result it was very similar to early versions of the 37mm Pak 36 and ammunition from both the Soviet and German 37mms could be used in either gun. I could only find one anti-tank shell for the Soviet gun, the M-160 APHE shell, which weighs 0.66kg, with 9g of explosive and a muzzle velocity of 820 m/s. I plugged those numbers into Gaijin's AP calculator and it gave a penetration of 55.31mm.

 

This is pretty good, and should be sufficient against everything from 1.0-1.7. It's only from 2.0 and up that we start getting tanks that are too tough, like the Pz.38(t) F with 50mm, the Swedish version Strv m/41 S-II at 2.3 and of course the B1 Bis at the same BR. Since this would inevitably be a Reserve, this is fine, since even the multi-turret heavies are weak enough to be pierced from a distance. The French and to a lesser extent the Italians might be tough from a distance, but BT-2 is fast and should be able to close the distance or flank on most maps. I don't think anyone really snipes with a BT, so I wouldn't expect ranged engagements against the French to be a critical factor in BT-2's success as a tank. The AP was the one thing I was concerned about, so I'm very pleased to see that this has all the makings of a really nice Reserve to fly around the battlefield in.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...
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I would like to see the 37mm and MG version in the game. Canister shot could be interesting at close range against light or unarmoured vehicles. Really, I'd like to see the US 37mm gun get that too, but that's a separate issue (and probably very rarely necessary...and I'm also not sure if such a shell mechanic currently exists or would need to be freshly modeled for it).

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