Panthera_Pardus

Leopard 2A4 armour, what to expect

Seeing as we're soon to be getting a production Leopard 2 ingame I thought it would be nice to have a look at what protection we should expect from this chariot. Below are the figures used in the SB simulation, which should be accurate:

 

Leopard2A4_LOS.jpg

Leo2sideLOS.jpg

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Hahahaha see challenger 1 ;)

 

i see a lot of folks being disappointed by the additions to the japan tree next patch and when Germany gets a production leo 

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Chally is still broken to this day (2months since the update). The m60 series is still broken for close to 4 years now. Like what do people even expect to happen again.

Edited by JohnQ11939ChtBan
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Depends on which 2A4: Early (B-Technologie armor) or Late (C-Technologie armor)

The first is ~320-360 on the hull,430 on the turret.

The second is probably closer to 400-420 on the hull,500-530 on the turret.

And then there were apparently a few that had D-Technologie armor packages,which would probably bump the protection up a bit more.

(values for KE)

 

 

 

 

Edited by swpixy
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8 minutes ago, swpixy said:

Depends on which 2A4: Early (B-Technologie armor) or Late (C-Technologie armor)

The first is ~320-360 on the hull,430 on the turret.

The second is probably closer to 400-420 on the hull,500-530 on the turret.

And then there were apparently a few that had D-Technologie armor packages,which would probably bump the protection up a bit more.

 

 

 

 

 

That's an awfully low guesstimate based on the information available. SB has the turret at 733mm vs KE for example. The actual LOS thickness being 860mm. 

 

In other words, if you thought the M1 or upcoming Type 90 is well armoured, just wait till you see the Leo 2A4.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Panthera_Pardus said:

 

That's an awfully low guesstimate based on the information available. SB has the turret at 733mm vs KE for example. The actual LOS thickness being 860mm. 

 

In other words, if you thought the M1 or upcoming Type 90 is well armoured, just wait till you see the Leo 2A4.

 

 

 

Gajin doesn’t use or go off SB so yeah don’t count on that :D

 

I will be very surprised if gajin doesn’t mess more tanks up. Il be even more surprised if they fix the chally and add the mk3 being better. Just don’t count on anything really.

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1 hour ago, Panthera_Pardus said:

That's an awfully low guesstimate based on the information available. SB has the turret at 733mm vs KE for example. The actual LOS thickness being 860mm.

...and Steelbeasts is kinda known to be a terrible source,especially when it comes to armor.IIRC one of the people that developed it even outright stated that the values used are outdated.

1 hour ago, Panthera_Pardus said:

In other words, if you thought the M1 or upcoming Type 90 is well armoured, just wait till you see the Leo 2A4.

And you will be highly disappointed.Its better than the base M1 we have ingame,probably slightly better than the Type 90 and slightly worse than the M1A1.

There´s a reason why germany built this:

KVT.jpg

in 1989.

(Thats the Leopard 2 KVT-Komponentenversuchsträger-which later evolved into the 2A5.Its also what the Swedes trialled as the "Leopard 2 Improved",though they did so with the addon armor package for the hull)

Feel free to discuss the topic in detail with @Laviduce by the way,he can probably tell you more on the armor of those than i can.

Edited by swpixy
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What to expect ? 

 

You must ignore how this game works OP.

USSR gets best estimations, the others get the worst ones + they don't even add the best and widely used shells.

There's nothing to expect from the Leopard II, Gaijin has shown many times that they want GE to be a glass-cannon faction at every possible BR (Only exception is TIger II) so Leo II won't escape that.

 

Go on, create your own website saying that Leo II had 5mm hull and turret armor and you'll see leo II implemented ingame with these stats in the next update.

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I expect to not be penned by T55 and BMP IT1 and early soviet ammo.

Yes of coarse new ammo will damage it. Maybe decrease Spallingen and other effects but still be vulnerable but not a total penetration in a instant and buy just looking at it.

I expect it to be by far more surviveabel then the Leo1 and 2k. Ammo in ammo rack with blow out panels whole hydraulic system also under a blow up panel.

It wont go up in flames immediately and it wont ammo rack instantly.

I hope it can even take a hit or two in the front armor and dont let the shells thru.

 

I expect the same from the new soviet tanks. Progress in technology will have its merits and draw backs.

Edited by VonMarder
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9 hours ago, swpixy said:

...and Steelbeasts is kinda known to be a terrible source,especially when it comes to armor.IIRC one of the people that developed it even outright stated that the values used are outdated.

And you will be highly disappointed.Its better than the base M1 we have ingame,probably slightly better than the Type 90 and slightly worse than the M1A1.

There´s a reason why germany built this:

KVT.jpg

in 1989.

(Thats the Leopard 2 KVT-Komponentenversuchsträger-which later evolved into the 2A5.Its also what the Swedes trialled as the "Leopard 2 Improved",though they did so with the addon armor package for the hull)

Feel free to discuss the topic in detail with @Laviduce by the way,he can probably tell you more on the armor of those than i can.

 

A terrible source on armor? It's a legit military simulator, thus I highly doubt that and am unsure from where you got the idea?  Afaik it is THE game according to actual tank enthusiasts and considered as good as it gets among all the choices available.

 

With a measured LOS thickness of 860mm I am pretty well inclined to believe the 733mm RHA resistance value listed in SB. 

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The most realistic estimates I found rate the turret front in the following way for the 2A4:

KE: 570-510mm

CE: 910-810mm

 

So that's actually quite a lot.

 

The sides are rather weak though, especially the turret sides.

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2 hours ago, Panthera_Pardus said:

A terrible source on armor? It's a legit military simulator, thus I highly doubt that and am unsure from where you got the idea?  Afaik it is THE game according to actual tank enthusiasts and considered as good as it gets among all the choices available.

Yes, but even for a commercial simulator data on the Leopard 2 is classified. So it makes no sense that they would somehow obtain such classified information and publish through a videogame.

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15 hours ago, Panthera_Pardus said:

Seeing as we're soon to be getting a production Leopard 2 ingame I thought it would be nice to have a look at what protection we should expect from this chariot. Below are the figures used in the SB simulation, which should be accurate:

 

Leopard2A4_LOS.jpg

Leo2sideLOS.jpg

Those are very enthusiastic overestimations.

13 hours ago, Panthera_Pardus said:

 

That's an awfully low guesstimate based on the information available. SB has the turret at 733mm vs KE for example. The actual LOS thickness being 860mm. 

 

In other words, if you thought the M1 or upcoming Type 90 is well armoured, just wait till you see the Leo 2A4.

 

 

Leo2_A1_A4_A5.thumb.jpg.5cd10b9157bb4979Leo2A1_armor_distribution2b.thumb.jpg.03

Leo2A1_estimate_side.thumb.jpg.ad3f44ed8

Where have you been?

 

Edited by Laviduce
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13 minutes ago, Laviduce said:

snip

Those are certainly interesting documents. Any source for them?

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4 minutes ago, LordMustang said:

Those are certainly interesting documents. Any source for them?

The top 6 diagrams come from the 2012 Rickard Lindström (http://www.ointres.se/projekt_stridsvagn_ny.htm) presentation on the Swedish Tank Trials of (1992-1994?). The comments come from SH_MM, the owner of below-the.turret-ring. The Leopard 2A1 protection estimate is my work based on the Lindström data,the Krapke vulnerability chart, the the Hilmes schematics and various references images and measurements of the vehicle. I could send you the presentation if you are interested. It also includes some information on the T80U, Leclerc Serie 1 and export M1A2.

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16 minutes ago, Laviduce said:

I could send you the presentation if you are interested.

Please, that would be nice. I couldn't find the presentation on the site you linked.

17 minutes ago, Laviduce said:

the Hilmes schematics

Is it from a specific book of Hilmes?

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2 hours ago, Panthera_Pardus said:

 

A terrible source on armor? It's a legit military simulator, thus I highly doubt that and am unsure from where you got the idea?  Afaik it is THE game according to actual tank enthusiasts and considered as good as it gets among all the choices available.

 

With a measured LOS thickness of 860mm I am pretty well inclined to believe the 733mm RHA resistance value listed in SB. 

You're defending steelbeasts for the wrong reasons.

 

Its a hight fidelity simulator for tactics and tank crew training. Not a simulator of ammo><armour interaction.

All the "ammo stats" and "armour thickness" values come from open sources and are tailored to match customer demands.

 

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I am expecting better peotection and firepower than the M1 for sure, but if Laviduce is right then it could vary between three different armor module variants for the Leo 2A4.

 

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