velo17

Fwd: May/05/2018 Lorraine 155 mle 50 Main Gun Vertical Guidance, and Forward speed

 

 

According to news released by war thunder :image.png.ae664faf8ce0b1c406dec2cc2a09f4

(Lorrain 155,T18E2 Warthunder-reddit) the lorraine 155mm has a gun negative elevation of 0° and a positiv elevation of 45°

  

 the gun carriage used on the 155mm howitzer towed version is the same as the one used on the self-propelled version so the data will be usable for the in game version.

 

1) I've got 2 different sources which fit together and give different data numbers for the gun elevation ( and other caracteristics you will be able to see).

The first one is from the "ASSOCIATION DU MUSEE DE L'ARTILLERIE DE DRAGUIGNAN" website ( the association of french artillery museum of Daguignan which has the 155mm canon on display ) in relation in relation with the French National Federation of Artillery(FNA):

the museum postal adress is :  Quartier Bonaparte -BP400

                                                 83007 DRAGUIGNAN CEDEX

                                                 FRANCE

 

 the elevation given is :-70mil / +1228mil  so it is approximately -4°/+68°

the pictures showing the howitzer and the mortar platoon leader ("marechal des logis") Jocelyn are taken by Jean luc Mesnier a french soldier at the 20th artillery regiment from 1995 to 1996.

 

 

image.thumb.png.217af1b0a1a529d6c964eb03

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) the actual gun elevation range given by THE 2nd MARINE ARTILLERY REGIMENT VETERAN ASSOCIATION website and taken from the MAT 6067 (MAT means:MAteriel Terrestre and is an abbreviation for a technical handbook at the time it was used by the french army) is the same:-70mil /+1228mil so about -4° / +68°

 

MAT6067.pdf

 

here an extracted picture from the MAT6067(the 155mm technical handbook at the time it was used by the french army):image.png.5a6e4dbd1be12d0545101cf5710ba8

 

 

you will notice the other data like the muzzle velocity correspond and are slighty different from the ones announced in the document of war thunder mentionned above(about 630 m/s in place of 583 m/s...)

 

 

 

website adress of the MAT6067:

 

http://asso2rama.com/BF50.pdf

 

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.f1b0b3899beee37651656ee4

 

an other picture still from the MAT6067(technical handbook of the 155mm at the time it was used by the french army) showing the gun traverse in mills, 730 mills for both sides so about 40° per side

 

 

 

 

image.png.bf7b63ef6df7b8469ebec02dc5c9a2

 

an other picture from the MAT6067 showing the specific numbers of the 155mm cannon

 

 

 

 

image.png.b8e9ea6e8735e8ec210758a83cb1ef

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DxDiag.txt

Edited by velo17
i added pictures of the MAT6067 technical handbook
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Specification now:
loor155.PNG

Lorraine 155 have 2 version- Model 50 and Model 51. Model 50 is the Prototype 1а.
Heve we have document from Swedish Test of the French Lorraine 155 50 (prototype 1a) (https://imgur.com/gallery/bdCNzxl)

Crew consist of 6 man with driver helper, max speed 55 km/h.
9uizaxO.jpg
Driver helper on this foto:

g93igzU.jpg

Most interesting page:
L0eQU5Y.jpg
Horizontal angles +-20, Vertical -5...+67

Ammunition have 30 rnds of 155mm shell (not 28) and 250+150 rnds of 20mm gun

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Hello @Malevich_au

 

Thank you for your interest in helping to improve the game.  I'll read through what you've posted, investigate, and get back to you shortly.

 

Regards

Tech mod Team

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4 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

As a native Swedish speaker, I'll gladly help with any translation needed.

 

Thank you, that would be appreciated.

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Merging with another topic about the same issue.

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On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 4:50 AM, velo17 said:

 the elevation given is :-70mil / +1228mil  so it is approximately -4°/+68°

the pictures showing the howitzer and the mortar platoon leader ("marechal des logis") Jocelyn are taken by Jean luc Mesnier a french soldier at the 20th artillery regiment from 1995 to 1996.

 

Shouldn't it be approximately -5 like the Swedish document?

which one are the devs going to implement?

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They'll likely go by the one that is closest to a primary source.

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11 hours ago, Talks said:

 

Shouldn't it be approximately -5 like the Swedish document?

which one are the devs going to implement?

not a big difference the 2 sources are going the same direction . the french one is directly from the  military handbook used by the french at that time

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Thank you for the civil discussion

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17 hours ago, Conraire said:

They'll likely go by the one that is closest to a primary source.

Should be the one from the Swedish document in this case,since the French document is for the gun itself mounted on its carriage,not for the gun mounted in the Lorraine.Which may give somewhat different values because the mount isn´t necessarily exactly the same.

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13 hours ago, Conraire said:

Thank you for the civil discussion

thanks i just hope the changes will be implemented in the game. i added some pictures from the MAT6067 in my post if you could check it ; it would be great

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Thanks

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Since im the one who originally shared this information I would like to add to the swedish doc posted earlier here as there is more to it. Just to give some context the document originates from a Swedish military attache visit to France july 1951 in preperation for the trials of the amx 13 in Sweden later that year. This was one of several documents regarding French prototypes which were translated from the original French description to Swedish, ohers include Char moyen AMX , AMX 13 mod 1950, Canon d'assaut AMX and a prototype 105 mm SPG based on the amx 13.


Full report

Spoiler

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Data: 28 ton self propelled howitzer Prototype 1

 

Crew: commander, gunner, loader, loader, driver, reserve driver
Combat weight: 28 tons
Length (total): 7,15 m
Width: 3,15 m
Heigth: 3,02 m
Top speed (road): 55 kph
Average speed (road): 30-40 Kph
Speed harsh terrain: 15 kph
Turning radious: 8-9 m
Trench: 2,1 m
Fording: 1 m

 

 

Armor:
Front (vertical): 16 mm
Sides: 16 mm
Bottom: 12 mm
Rear: 16 mm
Roof: 12 mm
Superstructure: 10 mm

 

 

Armament (main): 155 mm  
Projectile weight: 43,1 kg
Muzzle velocity: 650 m/s
Elevation/Depression: +67/-5 dg
Gun traverse: +-20 dg
Ammunition: 30 rounds

 

Armament (secondary): 20 mm Mg 151
Gun traverse: 360 dg
Ammunition: 250 rounds in the magazine, another 150 in the hull.

Engine: Talbot V 450
Output: 450 hp at 2500 rpm
Transmisson: "Sherman type"

 

"the first prototype of the 155 mm self propelled howitzer has been constructed in the fastest possible way by using a existing engine, the Talbot engie, with a output of 450 hp at 2500 rpm and with an existing powertrain, namely that of a sherman tank.

The Talbot engine is intended to be replaced in this SPG by the maybach HL 230, which outputs 650 hp at 2500 rpm.
Furthermore a 2nd prototype is under construction, which is equipped with this  maybach HL 230 and a merrit brown powertrain."

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2 hours ago, Sp15 said:

snip

  Reveal hidden contents

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Furthermore a 2nd prototype is under construction, which is equipped with this  maybach HL 230 and a merrit brown powertrain."

 

Thank you for the additional information

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Thread is now cleaned of anything that is not necessary for the reporting procedure.  Thank you for your patience and time helping with this report. 

 

Hi
 

Thank you for your interest and help improving the game.  

 

Your information has been forwarded to the developers for their consideration.  

 

This thread will remain unlocked for one week (7 days) so that anyone with additional information\evidence\examples will have a place to post.  
After this time the report will remain active but will be archived.

 

It will also serve as a place where the developers will post questions for you to answer so please keep up to date here.

 

Regards

Conraire

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9 minutes ago, Malevich_au said:

Today was changhing in Lorraine parameters. But:
crew member still 5, need 6 man
(Crew: commander, gunner, loader, loader, driver, reserve driver)

Reserve driver on foto:


And why was given 450hp engin?

 

That is the hp the document lists for the engine.

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14 minutes ago, Conraire said:

 

That is the hp the document lists for the engine.

Okay, may be. This engine was installed, and maybach was planned, alright. At the same time, in this document says: "the first prototype of the 155 mm self propelled howitzer has been constructed in the fastest possible way by using a existing engine the Talbot engie, with a output of 450 hp at 2500 rpm " and

"The Talbot engine is intended to be replaced in this SPG by the maybach HL 230, which outputs 650 hp at 2500 rpm."

450hp it is not true engine, it is only placeholder. Lorraine must be with Maybach, as planned by constructors.


And where driver assistant (6 crew member)?

 

Edited by Malevich_au
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