Greetings, WarThunder Community!

 

 

Alright, so, it seems that since the Leo 2ks devblog came out a while back, I've been running into talk everywhere on this forum about what new MBTs we could see in the game in the future.  There have also been a number of leaks that hint that Gaijin will continue to expand tanks into the modern era:

Spoiler

From the M1 Abrams Devblog:

Capture2.PNG.8aa75df3ead0df857ff95e44b4c

 

  So, I decided to create a discussion about it.  At the moment, each nation has a certain number of MBTs, as listed below:

 

  • USA: 10
  • Germany: 4
  • USSR/Russia: 7
  • Britain: 7
  • Japan: 3
  • Italy: 0
  • France: 4

 

 

In game MBTs by generation:

 

1st Generation:

  • M46 Patton (USA)
  • M47 Patton II (USA)
  • M48A1 Patton III (USA)
  • Magach 3 (USA)
  • T-54 1947 (USSR)
  • T-54 1949 (USSR)
  • T-54 1951 (USSR)
  • T-55A (USSR)
  • Centurion Mk 1 (UK)
  • Centurion Mk 3 (UK)
  • Centurion Mk 10 (UK)
  • Type 61 (JPN)

 

2nd Generation:

  • M60 Patton (USA)
  • M60A1 (AOS) Patton (USA)
  • M60A2 "Starship" (USA)
  • M60A1 (RISE/Passive) Patton (USA)
  • XM-803 (USA)
  • MBT/KPz - 70 (USA, GER)
  • Leopard 1A0 (GER)
  • Leopard A1A1 (GER)
  • Leopard 2K (GER)
  • T-55AM-1
  • T-62 (USSR)
  • T-62M-1 (USSR)
  • T-64A (USSR)
  • T-72A (USSR)
  • T-64B/BV (USSR)
  • Vickers MBT (UK)
  • Chieftain Mk 3 (UK)
  • Chieftain Mk 5 (UK)
  • Chieftain Mk 10 (UK)
  • Type 74 (JPN)
  • OF-40 (ITA)
  • OF-40 Mk.2A (ITA)
  • AMX-30 (FRA)
  • AMX-30B (1972) (FRA)
  • AMX-30B2 (FRA)
  • AMX-30B2 BRENUS (FRA)
  • AMX-40 (FRA)

 

3rd Generation:

  • XM1 (C/GM) (USA)
  • M1 Abrams (USA)
  • M1IP Abrams (USA)
  • Leopard 2A4 B Technologie (GER)
  • T-80B (USSR)
  • Challenger 1 (UK)
  • Challenger 1 Mk. 3 (UK)
  • Type 90 (Japan)

 

 

Regarding future additions, we first all have to realize that these machines cannot all be added at once; we have to take them in steps with respect to the generation WarThunder is currently at.  With that in mind, let me propose some of the MBTs that I think we could see in the game.  If these vehicles have been suggested, then I'll link them to their respective threads:

 

UPDATE:  I have color coded each vehicle based on the possibility of when we could see it in the game:

  • Green = Could be added next patch
  • Yellow = Most likely more than one patch away from being added.
  • Pumpkin = Unlikely to be added for a while
  • Blue = Prototype, but enough info available to be considered addition
  • Purple = Prototype/limited info, could significantly hamper possibility of addition

 

 

Rank V-VI

 

Gen 1:

 

M47M (USA)

M48A3, A5, (USA)

T-54A, T-54B (USSR)

T-55, T-55AD (USSR)

Centurion Mk2, Mk3-Mk9, Mk10-Mk13 (UK)

 

Gen 2:

 

M60A3, Super/AX (USA)

Leopard 1A2, A3, A4, A5 (GER)

T-54M, AM (USSR)

T-55MV, M5, M6 (USSR)

T-62A, T-62/122 (USSR)

T-64, T-64R (USSR)

T-72 Ural, T-72A, T-72M (USSR)

Chieftain Mk 1-2, Mk 6, Mk 8 (UK)

Vickers MBT Mk. 2, Mk. 3 (UK)

AMX-32 (FRA)

 

 

Gen 3:

 

Leopard 2AV, 2A0/A1, 2A2, 2A3, (GER)

T-62D, E, MD, MV, T-67 (USSR)

T-64AM, T-55/64 (USSR)

T-80, T-80M-1,  (USSR)

Chieftain 800, 900 (UK)

Vickers MBT Mk 4 Valiant (UK)

MBT-80 (UK, GER)

STC (JPN)

 

 

Rank VII-?

 

Gen 3.5:

 

M1A1 Abrams, M1A1HA Abrams (USA)

M1A2, SEP, SEPv2 Abrams (USA)

Leopard 2A4 C Technologie (GER)

Leopard 2A5 (Leopard 2 Improved), 2A6, 2A6M, E, PSO (GER)

Leopard 2-140 (GER)

T-64BM2, T-64U (USSR)

T-72B, B2, B3 (USSR)

T-80BVT-80U, UM, UM-1/UM-2, (USSR)

T-90A (USSR)

Challenger 2, TES, LEP (UK) Confirmed for Update 1.87!!!!!!!!

Vickers MBT Mk. 7, 7/2 (UK)

C1 Ariete (pre serie), production (ITA)

AMX Leclerc Séries 1, Séries 2, Séries XXI, T4  (FRA)

 

Next Gen/3rd Gen Advanced:

 

M1A2C (SEPv3) (USA)

Leopard 2A7, 2A7+ (GER)

T-72B3M (USSR)

T-80BVM (USSR)

T-90M, AM (USSR)

T-14 Armata (USSR)

Type 10 (JPN)

 

 

 

Of course, this is only an initial list, and this thread is a work in progress.  I'll modify it based on your feedback.  So, what are everyone's thoughts?

Edited by RogueStarflyer
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1 hour ago, RogueStarflyer said:

Greetings, WarThunder Community!

 

 

Alright, so, it seems that since the Leo 2ks devblog came out a while back, I've been running into talk everywhere on this forum about what new MBTs we could see in the game in the future.  There have also been a number of leaks that hint that Gaijin will continue to expand tanks into the modern era:

  Reveal hidden contents

In the last patch, we got several hints of even more modern vehicles coming into the game.  Some of them were in the form of CDK finds, while others were spoken of in a Dev Q&A .  They are listed below:

 

T-64BV found in CDK:

 

display?key=fd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e789

 

LdHxMKp.jpg

 

Q&A aforementioned:

Capture.PNG.9ced2e83ccb1920084dfbee96c1a

 

From the M1 Abrams Devblog:

Capture2.PNG.8aa75df3ead0df857ff95e44b4c

 

  So, I decided to create a discussion about it.  At the moment, each nation has a certain number of MBTs, as listed below:

 

  • USA: 10
  • Germany: 4
  • USSR/Russia: 7
  • Britain: 7
  • Japan: 3
  • Italy: 0
  • France: 4

 

 

In game MBTs by generation:

 

1st Generation:

  • Centurion Mk 1 (UK)
  • Centurion Mk 3 (UK)
  • Centurion Mk 10 (UK)
  • T-54 1947 (USSR)
  • T-54 1949 (USSR)
  • T-54 1951 (USSR)
  • M46 Patton (USA)
  • M47 Patton II (USA)
  • M48A1 Patton III (USA)
  • T-55A (USSR)
  • Type 61 (JPN)
  • Magach 3 (USA)

 

2nd Generation:

  • T-62 (USSR)
  • M60 Patton (USA)
  • M60A1 (AOS) Patton (USA)
  • Leopard 1A0 (GER)
  • Leopard A1A1 (GER)
  • MBT/KPz - 70 (USA, GER)
  • T-64A (USSR)
  • M60A2 "Starship" (USA)
  • M60A1 (RISE/Passive) Patton (USA)
  • AMX-30B (1972) (FRA)
  • AMX-30B2 (FRA)
  • AMX-30 (FRA)
  • AMX-30B2 BRENUS (FRA)
  • Chieftain Mk 3 (UK)
  • Chieftain Mk 5 (UK)
  • Chieftain Mk 10 (UK)
  • Vickers MBT (UK)
  • Type 74 (JPN)

 

3rd Generation:

  • T-64B (USSR)
  • Leopard 2K (GER)
  • M1 Abrams (USA)
  • Challenger 1 (UK)

 

 

Regarding future additions, we first all have to realize that these machines cannot all be added at once; we have to take them in steps.  With that in mind, let me propose some of the MBTs that I think we could see in the game, in steps.  By a step, I mean specific vehicles that need to be implemented before the next step.

 

Step 1:

 

M1IP (USA)

Leopard 2AV, 2A1, 2A2 (GER)

T-64BV (USSR)

Challenger 2 Prototype (UK)

T-72 (USSR)

AMX-40 (FRA)

MBT-80 (UK, GER)

OF-40 (ITA)

 

Step 2:

 

M1A1 (USA)

Leopard 2A3, 2A4 (GER)

T-80 (USSR)

AMX Leclerc (FRA)

Type 90 (JPN)

C1 Ariete (ITA)

 

Step 3:

 

M1A2 (USA)

Leopard 2A5, 2A6

T-90 (USSR)

Challenger 2 (UK)

 

 

 

Of course, this is only an initial list, and this thread is a work in progress.  I'll modify it based on your feedback.  So, what are everyone's thoughts?

T-80 step 2?, good job :facepalm:, T-80 1973 its a T64a with better engine, T-80b its a 1976 T64b (inferior to current T64 mod 1984) with better engine, and like that T80 its only a different engine in a t64.

 

but even its more funny to see T72 the downgrade it and cheaper version of the T64 series at step 2 also.

Edited by nayfas2
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There’s a whole line of vickers tanks that could be added to the British tree but il be honest with how they have butchered the Challenger 1 I don’t hold any hopes but the Brit tree down the line.

 

Im looking forwards to seeing more production leopards however.

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Given how much assumption has had to be made for the latest batch of top line tanks I wouldn't want to see how they would "approximate" the armour and projectile performance of things more modern - so no thanks.

 

Much rather they fixed up the myriad things that are wrong with the existing systems!

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6 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

Given how much assumption has had to be made for the latest batch of top line tanks I wouldn't want to see how they would "approximate" the armour and projectile performance of things more modern - so no thanks.

 

Much rather they fixed up the myriad things that are wrong with the existing systems!

Amen

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It's pretty clear that balance will be nearly impossible, especially once 120mm Abrams get in the game. I don't think going any further than it is now is really reasonable. I guess if you limit the M1 to the M1IP with the M833 and M900, you can try to balance it that way but I don't know how happy people will be.

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40 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

Given how much assumption has had to be made for the latest batch of top line tanks I wouldn't want to see how they would "approximate" the armour and projectile performance of things more modern - so no thanks.

 

Much rather they fixed up the myriad things that are wrong with the existing systems!

 

That too but this is a F2P game and fixing things isn’t what the market is about sadly. Even more the case when there is no direct competition to war thunder as it stands.

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8 hours ago, nayfas2 said:

T-80 step 2?, good job :facepalm:, T-80 1973 its a T64a with better engine, T-80b its a 1976 T64b (inferior to current T64 mod 1984) with better engine, and like that T80 its only a different engine in a t64.

 

but even its more funny to see T72 the downgrade it and cheaper version of the T64 series at step 2 also.

 

Fixed. :good:

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The m1a1 was already confirmed in a dev blog . The t80 was a ultimate failure and was again replaced by a modern variant of t64 . The only upgrade is that they are more mobile ( good thing for the game ) Go look up the 1980s history of the t80 . The t72s are a downgrade as well . The chally 2 and leopard production models are of course upgrades so you have that covered . I feel the best solution is bring in the better t64 variants before the t80 .  Germany the Leo 2 av  or a1 next , the chally 1 mk3 , for USA , just leave the m1 and as the opponents get newer better then previous tanks just bring the m1 element by element up to it's standard , like armor value a tad here and there and of course it's historically correct round . As the Abrams is brought up to combat the newer vehicles . The voids could be filled with the more modern m60 variants or other things that are near as "op" . From experience in the game , the m1 Abrams even being at it's already lowest armor values and not even given it's true ammo . Is far superior and has plenty of upgrading room to stay strong against everything till we hit the 90s. If we get a m1a1 , we are going to get a tank that will be underperforming to create balance

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9 hours ago, RogueStarflyer said:

Step 2:

 

M1A1 (USA)

Leopard 2A3, 2A4 (GER)

T-80U (USSR)

AMX Leclerc (FRA)

Type 90 (JPN)

C1 Ariete (ITA)

Challenger 2 Prototype (UK)

 

There's lots of variants of the Leclerc, the Leclerc ARES prototype would be the best choice as the first Leclerc, comparable to Leo2A0-3 (also, Leo2A0 to 2A3 are pretty much the same, but the newer variants of the Leo2A4 had new and better armor, they totally aren't in the same br) :

Spoiler

3NMhkUx.jpg.3074dbafe4f5da09290e1d476e77

 

We would then start to see the newer prototypes, the Leclerc S1 T1s like the Leclerc BAYARD, which would go well with Leo2A4 :

Spoiler

5acf5592a5454__6894-0082bayard10.jpg.911

 

 

 

But before all these fancy modern MBTs, we would see the AMX-40E4 first, it's an uparmored variant of the AMX-40 that can withstand 105mm APFSDS and HEAT shells, and if the 105mm gun that was tested was AMX-30's 105mm, then that's some pretty good armor :

Spoiler

5acf563d01aad_AMX40E4.thumb.PNG.2c26fa75

 

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8 hours ago, *MiseryIndex556 said:

It's pretty clear that balance will be nearly impossible, especially once 120mm Abrams get in the game. I don't think going any further than it is now is really reasonable. I guess if you limit the M1 to the M1IP with the M833 and M900, you can try to balance it that way but I don't know how happy people will be.

If the M1IP is added with the M900 it will be the same as adding a M1A1, since the M1IP has the same armor of the M1A1, and the M900 has the same penetration of the M829

Edited by Maverick966
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2 minutes ago, Fireraid233 said:

Would a Type-10 be too modern against step 3 tanks?

It's in service since 2012, you guess it

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3 minutes ago, AdmiralFrenchFry said:

It's in service since 2012, you guess it

No i meant in terms of protection, gun,etc. Gaijin no longer looks at what date tanks were made. If they are within the games meta,and there are other counters anything can be added. Meaning there is no more cut off date.

Edited by Fireraid233
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9 minutes ago, Maverick966 said:

If the M1IP is added with the M900 it will be the same as adding a M1A1, since the M1IP has the same armor of the M1A1, and the M900 has the same penetration of the M829

 

Like @*MiseryIndex556 said, most likely, they'll do what they did with the M1 and not give it its best ammunition. It will probably just get the M883, for balancing purposes.

 

10 minutes ago, Fireraid233 said:

Would a Type-10 be too modern against step 3 tanks?

 

Yup.  Which is why I didn't include tanks like the T-14 Armata and the Type-10.  These next-gen tanks are so modern that I doubt that Gaijin will have any way of finding any data to model them on reliably.

Edited by RogueStarflyer
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2 minutes ago, Fireraid233 said:

No i meant in terms of protection, gun,etc.

Type 10 weighs between 44 and 48 tons, it's one of the lightest MBTs in service

It uses nanotechnology and ceramics in its composite armor layout

Its gun is an L44 120mm gun made by Japan Steel Works, which can fire NATO rounds and the JM33 round, it can be replaced for an L50 or L55 gun too, but most importantly, it can fire the new Japanese APFSDS round made specifically for the Type 10

Its mobility is very good, 27hp/t and can go as fast forward as backwards, at around 70kmph

It's also a small tank

 

So that's to the level of the latest versions of the M1A2

 

A bit too modern imho

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6 minutes ago, RogueStarflyer said:

 

Like @*MiseryIndex556 said, most likely, they'll do what they did with the M1 and not give it its best ammunition. It will probably just get the M883, for balancing purposes.

 

 

Yup.  Which is why I didn't include tanks like the T-14 Armata and the Type-10.  These next-gen tanks are so modern that I doubt that Gaijin will have any way of finding any data to model them on reliably.

Yeah i can agree then. I wonder how a Type-90 would do against step 3 tanks same goes for France.

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18 minutes ago, Maverick966 said:

If the M1IP is added with the M900 it will be the same as adding a M1A1, since the M1IP has the same armor of the M1A1, and the M900 has the same penetration of the M829

 

Not quite. The M900 may actually be the M829 adapted to the 105mm gun, but the round is fired at roughly 150 m/s slower velocity and that brings penetration down.

Edited by *MiseryIndex556

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1 minute ago, Fireraid233 said:

I wonder how a Type-90 would do against step 3 tanks same goes for France.

Depends for the versions of the Leclerc as I said

 

Against the Step 3 tanks, the Leclerc SXXI T10-11 are the best contenders, they get some new armor, and thicker armor (compared to the S1 and S2), like below the sight of the gunner, on the right of the turret :

5acf5de6c5036_6064-0030011-11rcpo2008.jp

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I thought one of the reasons T-72 where less capable was because the were largely for export where as the t-64 and T-80 where not.

 

i would still like to see it in game though.

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I think a challenger 1 with DU rounds and applique side/lfp armour would be good for step 2 (assuming chally 1 composite armour in general is fixed)

Other than that those steps look good. Hopefully the leo 2a1, amx-40 ect will arrive soon. 

Leopard 2 and M1 abrams will be pretty similar tanks, with only minor trade offs. If chally 1 gets fixed then it should be a decent contender. T-80b would also be good, as it has good mobility, a powerful gun and reasonable armour (albeit less than t-64b 84). 

 

22 minutes ago, DiEsmitty said:

I thought one of the reasons T-72 where less capable was because the were largely for export where as the t-64 and T-80 where not.

 

i would still like to see it in game though.

T-72 was originally designed mainly for mass production in the event of war breaking out. Eventually it was decided to produce them anyway over the t-64 due to cost. In terms of in-game performance, t-72s would be more or less identical to the t-64s depending on which models are added. t-72 ural would pretty much be on par with the t-64a, while some of the later models are superior to the t-64b we have in game already.

 

 

11 hours ago, RogueStarflyer said:

 

Yup.  Which is why I didn't include tanks like the T-14 Armata and the Type-10.  These next-gen tanks are so modern that I doubt that Gaijin will have any way of finding any data to model them on reliably.

Yeah, plus I can't see gaijin managing to model APS which is important to the t-14 especially. Still, if we did go that far I'd be interested in what the lineup looked like. I imagine something like Leo2a7/m1a2sepv3/t-14/Chally-2 TES (or megatron)/type-10

Edited by Dantheman66
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On 2018/4/12 at 10:15 PM, AdmiralFrenchFry said:

Type 10 weighs between 44 and 48 tons, it's one of the lightest MBTs in service

It uses nanotechnology and ceramics in its composite armor layout

Its gun is an L44 120mm gun made by Japan Steel Works, which can fire NATO rounds and the JM33 round, it can be replaced for an L50 or L55 gun too, but most importantly, it can fire the new Japanese APFSDS round made specifically for the Type 10

Its mobility is very good, 27hp/t and can go as fast forward as backwards, at around 70kmph

It's also a small tank

 

So that's to the level of the latest versions of the M1A2

 

A bit too modern imho

The type 10 tank has its own ammunition.

It is not JM33

type10APFSDS 

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On 13-4-2018 at 2:31 AM, Dantheman66 said:

Yeah, plus I can't see gaijin managing to model APS which is important to the t-14 especially. Still, if we did go that far I'd be interested in what the lineup looked like. I imagine something like Leo2a7/m1a2sepv3/t-14/Chally-2 TES (or megatron)/type-10

 

Boy, would the Challenger 2 get massacred in that lineup.

 

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28 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

Boy, would the Challenger 2 get massacred in that lineup.

 

Not necessarily, but it depends how fcs/aps ect is modelled if those tanks come out. The megatron challenger is a test bed for new technology, so there would probably be some kind of configuration that would fit. 

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