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Centurion mk3 and fv4202 needs to got back down to 6.3


If the Centurion has to stay at 6.7 Gaijin should just make it a Mark 5. You get a slightly more powerful engine 650hp vs 600hp. You also get a coaxial .30 instead of the Besa, and a .30 mounted on the commanders cupola (helps with AA defence). Then if they really wanted to they could make the 5/1 variant a module upgrade, which gives you an additional coaxial .50, and the extra 44mm of upper glacis armour the Mark 10 gets.

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15 hours ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

It's far more than two. The amount of shots that are doing jack all damage despite direct hits on core crew/modules is ridiculous. I've put shots dead on where they should be, seen the penetrator go right through crew members, and nothing is actually knocked out. Repeat the shot, and maybe knock out something, repeat the shot maybe for the kill.

 

However i nreality, you tend to shoot once, APDS does absolutely nothing, other tank shoots you back and you die. In ANY instance where two tanks have a meeting, the one with the APDS is at a massive disadvantage right now, stabiliser or no.

 

And the "just like other" is a false arguement. UK is facing Germans, Russians and France. Germans and Russians are using APHE, and France is using huge AP rounds. All of which do serious damage (AP) or instakill damage (APHE).

 

There was a subjective arguement before about battle rating for them, but post APDS nerf into uselessness, their BR is just flat out wrong. If APDS was fixed soon, I'd be happy to wait at 6.7 to see how it goes, but there's very little indication they're going to do that. Put them at a betetr BR until APDS has been fixed.

 

Sigh...

 

You don't use APDS, you use AP, with which you can kill tanks quite easily with 2 shots average.

British AP post-pen damage is no different to French AP post-pen damage, a truly significant damage increase only exists with the 120mm guns such as on the M103 and AMX-50.

 

These British tanks shouldn't go back to 6.3, they were resposible for utterly decimating teams of 5.7 Tiger's, Panther's, T-34/85's and IS-2's with ease, they have also been my go-to tanks whenever I felt like roflstomping people in easy-mode, regardless of APDS being poor or not.

 

13 hours ago, CRGKevin said:

-Snip-

 

We're referring to the 6.7 British tanks here, which do have access to AP, problem solved.

 

9 hours ago, moz2003 said:

All of which have an expolsive round of some type so you have no argument at all untill the british solid shot and APDS rounds are sort to comparable capability as that of the APHE etc they need to go down to 6.3 

 

Also all of those tanks you have mention have a larger gun caliber than that of the british two tanks so bigger round more explosives are crammed into it so again you have no argument for those tanks to go down as thier ammo is more than adequit to deal with tank on the same br in one shot after pen.

with what degree of angle?

 

Solid shot has received a damage buff, please don't act as though that hasn't made these tanks far more effective than they were previously when they had to rely on APDS.

 

Secondly, British tanks have the reload and stabilization advantage, but apparently you also want them to have the highest one-shot-kill potential, seems legit.

 

Thirdly, T92 doesn't have APHE, nor a larger gun calibre, even though that's largely irrelevant anyways, so don;t start making crap up.

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In RB i think they are right at 6.7 with one change that needs to be made: APDS needs a serious buff both postpen dmg wise and effective angle wise. With their solid shot they are competetive at 6.7, they do not exactly club but not too far away from it at 5.7, but in an uptier, especially against russian tanks, both armour and ammo are pretty useless.

 

As lowering their BR is kind of a slap in the face AND a kick in the gutts for every 5.3, they need to improve APDS to render these tanks useless in an uptier.

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1 hour ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

Sigh...

 

You don't use APDS, you use AP, with which you can kill tanks quite easily with 2 shots average.

British AP post-pen damage is no different to French AP post-pen damage, a truly significant damage increase only exists with the 120mm guns such as on the M103 and AMX-50.

 

These British tanks shouldn't go back to 6.3, they were resposible for utterly decimating teams of 5.7 Tiger's, Panther's, T-34/85's and IS-2's with ease, they have also been my go-to tanks whenever I felt like roflstomping people in easy-mode, regardless of APDS being poor or not.

 

 

We're referring to the 6.7 British tanks here, which do have access to AP, problem solved.

 

 

Solid shot has received a damage buff, please don't act as though that hasn't made these tanks far more effective than they were previously when they had to rely on APDS.

 

Secondly, British tanks have the reload and stabilization advantage, but apparently you also want them to have the highest one-shot-kill potential, seems legit.

 

Thirdly, T92 doesn't have APHE, nor a larger gun calibre, even though that's largely irrelevant anyways, so don;t start making crap up.

firstly stablizer only allow the tank to keep the gun still on the moved means nothing if you cant get a shot off and when you are sat still hull down

secondly to even pen any of those tanks at range you have to use APDS 

thirdly reload rate is nothing if you cant get a second shot off

 

APHE kills in one simple end of argument they need to go back down to 6.3 AND BE REPLACED AT 6.7 WITH THE MK5/7 CENTURION THEN THERE IS AN ACTUAL TANK WITH THE CAPABILITY OF HITTING AND KILLING AT DISTANCE AND APDS IS SORTED.

 

And its ok for tiger 1s and panthers and all othe 6.0s to romperstomp all british 5.7s?

Also do you have to pay for APHE no its standard

Edited by moz2003
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25 minutes ago, moz2003 said:

APHE kills in one simple end of argument they need to go back down to 6.3

 

No, they don't because they'd roflstomp their opposition as they have in the past, simple as that, and I'm glad Gaijin seems to agree.

 

Not going to respond to the other arguments because they're utter trash.

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Anyone, who wants those tanks back just wants to club.

 

British TT is my most favourite, I am an avid British player and yet I deem the move of Mk3 and FV deserving. 

When I felt like clubbing and making SLs, I climbed into my Mk3 and had a laugh at opponents. My Mk3 has talisman from the days it was 6.7 (and also APDS was trash even back then, after the flavor of new TT passed).

 

Current setup at 6.7 haven't really lowered my K/D ratios.

 

As I am currently also playing Panthers, WHICH ARE pain in the arse, I can honestly say no to a downgrade back to 6.3.

10 out of 10 times when I am in the Panther I wish I were sitting in the British tank that just stomped me.

Edited by Phelpsiee
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8 minutes ago, Phelpsiee said:

Anyone, who wants those tanks back just wants to club.

 

British TT is my most favourite, I am an avid British player and yet I deem the move of Mk3 and FV deserving. 

When I felt like clubbing and making SLs, I climbed into my Mk3 and had a laugh at opponents. My Mk3 has talisman from the days it was 6.7 (and also APDS was trash even back then, after the flavor of new TT passed).

 

Current setup at 6.7 haven't really lowered my K/D ratios.

 

As I am currently also playing Panthers, WHICH ARE pain in the arse, I can honestly say no to a downgrade back to 6.3.

10 out of 10 times when I am in the Panther I wish I were sitting in the British tank that just stomped me.

So its ok for a 6.7 tank to fight 7.0s and 7.7 that it cant pen frontal armour?

but yet a 5.7 tank can pen it frontally?

 

I say it again APHE rounds is what pushes the panther over the edge for comparability.

 

Im sorry but this game does not depict the actual capability of these tanks 

 

Every tank that has APHE rounds i do far better than that in a british tank

Edited by moz2003
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24 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

No, they don't because they'd roflstomp their opposition as they have in the past, simple as that, and I'm glad Gaijin seems to agree.

 

Not going to respond to the other arguments because they're utter trash.

so the truth about  what stabilzers are is trash?

 

so these tanks can pen all tanks with stock ammo at range?

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15 minutes ago, moz2003 said:

So its ok for a 6.7 tank to fight 7.0s and 7.7 that it cant pen frontal armour?

but yet a 5.7 tank can pen it frontally?

 

I say it again APHE rounds is what pushes the panther over the edge for comparability.

 

Im sorry but this game does not depict the actual capability of these tanks 

 

Every tank that has APHE rounds i do far better than that in a british tank

 

So it's okay to seal club everyone in range from 5.3 to.. Well I barely had 7.3 games.

I mean, that's you logic.

Those tanks shouldn't be able to meet 5.3 tanks, period.

 

If APHE is your problem, you might want to create APHE rework thread, instead of moving seal clubbing tanks back to their seal clubbing position.

Edited by Phelpsiee
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Any shuffling of the BRs wouldn't help the game at all.

What needs to happen is a BR decompression. Stronger tanks need to be moved up, and the centurion can stay where it is, and it'll be fine. The biggest problem is Gaijin's decision to just wedge in as many tanks into a very limited BR range as they can. 5.7 is unplayable due to uptiers to 6.7. 6.7 is unplayable due to the frequent uptiers to 1970s MBT level, etc, etc

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I understand your pain, I've been there many times. But I think the real problem is not the BR, it's the ammunition. If APDS were working at its real performance, you could laugh at a T-54, an IS-3 and even an IS4M.

But of course, Gaijin does not want you to laugh at them.

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1 hour ago, Phelpsiee said:

 

So it's okay to seal club everyone in range from 5.3 to.. Well I barely had 7.3 games.

I mean, that's you logic.

Those tanks shouldn't be able to meet 5.3 tanks, period.

 

If APHE is your problem, you might want to create APHE rework thread, instead of moving seal clubbing tanks back to their seal clubbing position.

For these tanks to fight 5.3 would be wrong that is fair that is why the br uptiering needs to stop as well as it is what is causing so much frustration for everyone however i never met either of these tanks at 5.3.

However when ever you play the british 6.7 you are fighting 7.0 and 7.7s constantly which they just can't compete in their current state at all.

 

Im sorry but the British are just in a bad shape all through out the tech tree, due to the lack of post pen on stock ammo and every other ammo (imo every still with the buff you are still at a disadvantage)

 

APHE is not the only problem sloped armour on these tanks does nothing, being killed through the cupola (which is a joke) lack of pen from distance, lack of post pen, APDs doesn't work, stupid RNG bounces that should pen, rediculous weakspots that just wouldn't have existed prime example upper turret of the centurion. 

 

Also if any of your arguments are using RB experiences then they are of no use as this is aimed for AB only

Edited by moz2003
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It doesn't matter what mode you are talking about, in this case it's not an argument, it's nothing really. So mode argument is of no use even for you.

You are not having problem with the tanks, but with overperforming APHE and underperforming APDS. That is no reason to move them back into their clubbing state.

Those tanks clubbed hard in 6.3 bracket. If you can't see it, then I have nothing else to say. I'm not the one to fix game through BR movement, but even in the current state of APDS, those two were uptier material for a long time.

Problems lie somewhere else, not in Mk3 or FV being 6.7. Moving them back is not going to fix anything. Right now, they are at correct BR when we look at what sits lower from them.

Edited by Phelpsiee
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16 minutes ago, Phelpsiee said:

It doesn't matter what mode you are talking about, in this case it's not an argument, it's nothing really. So mode argument is of no use even for you.

You are not having problem with the tanks, but with overperforming APHE and underperforming APDS. That is no reason to move them back into their clubbing state.

Those tanks clubbed hard in 6.3 bracket. If you can't see it, then I have nothing else to say. I'm not the one to fix game through BR movement, but even in the current state of APDS, those two were uptier material for a long time.

Problems lie somewhere else, not in Mk3 or FV being 6.7. Moving them back is not going to fix anything. Right now, they are at correct BR when we look at what sits lower from them.

The APHE and APDS going to change soon no and when the APDS does change everyone will complain and they will be move again rendering them useless again 

 

just fought a match in a mk3 cent fired at ferdi tank ammo stats show should pen with stock ammo but didnt so that there renders all of the tanks with 20 pdrs useless at 6.7 (at no more than 70yds)

 

Also how can you say they are the right br when the stats were not even accurate in the first place as they were fighting all many of Brs and not the acual br they are in and modes does matter you dont have a big name tag icon pointing out your location in RB

 

 

Edited by moz2003
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2 hours ago, Ghost_Rider12 said:

 

Threads about well performing British tanks always are seems we are not allowed a tank that can fight fair :016:

All the wehrboo moaning has resulted in nerfs to APDS and HESH and has generally rendered some tanks unplayable. Maybe we should start threads calling for nerfs to APHE so that people have to crew snipe with it to kill tanks?

 

The Fv4202 and the Mk.3 Centurion are now victims of BR compression and are not worth playing what so ever anymore until they either get correctly performing APDS or the dev's redo all BR's 

just high time they sucked it up and admitted that the only reason they jump on british tanks that are good is becuase they dont want admit that british are very good in compared to other nations, think the british have had a lot longer to horn thier tank building skills after all they were the first to build one 

Edited by moz2003
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9 minutes ago, moz2003 said:

stats are not in favour over the is 2's, t44, tiger 2h and variour other tanks being uptierd no just ones that were underperforming and just because they got a ammo buff they get uptierd seems fair and right no it doesn't can't pen ferdi, tiger 2s, t44 and various other tanks at the br of 6.7 unless you are two foot away.

 

Also just played a match in a fv4202 and was rammed by a panther d so was sat on each other and guess what my round bounced at point blank stock round as APDS is useless at that range or any other.

 

Also what do the british have a 6.3 nothing so all the tanks at 5.7 end up facing 6.3's which they also cant compete with 

sorry but your argument is flawed 

 

For harder targets you use APDS, even though it's a crappy needle, you can still take out gunner of Ferdinand rather easily. No one is forcing you to use AP for hard targets.

Same goes for taking out gunner of Tiger II or T-44. Seriously, just swap the ammo, if the situation allows you too. If not, tough luck.

Mk3 was uptier material even before the AP buff, but hey, that's just me.

 

And I can use plenty of games in Panther, when APDS flew through my tank and killed my gunner, making me totally useless. Fast reload and another APDS, if well placed, killing me. 

Or better yet, well placed AP OHKing me.

We can go on and on with personal experiences. APDS is a pain in the ****, but you are forgetting lot of stuff, that cannot be ignored in this counter strike game. Turret traverse, reverse speed, reload time, even stabilization.

Game is situational and sometimes having the above helps a lot.

 

What I do agree is, that there is a huge black hole at 6.3, but I ackonlwedged that at the day they were uptiered, so I am longer in this discussion than you and I am tired to write my thoughts again.

Edited by Phelpsiee
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15 minutes ago, Phelpsiee said:

 

:facepalm:

 

Yeah, because when there are no insults like wehraboo or whateverboo, because I clearly am British biased player, there is nothing else to say. 

Sure, this is my personal opinion, but stats of these tanks are in favour of my opinion.

 

The problem with Mk3 sitting in 6.7 is not the number. It's the ammunition problems. But even in this state, it is 6.7 tank. 

 

ok I'll bite.....

 

sure the Mk.3 can stay at 6.7 but and this is a very big but.......APDS needs fixed big time and the MM needs changes big changes in other words the whole BR system needs scrapped.........till then its a 6.3 tank......give it a few months and it will be back their anyhow.......

 

And that's without going into all the other issues and missing bits........ you could write a small book on all the things wrong with British tanks in this game :facepalm:

 

1 minute ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

I'm starting to get a strong sense of you just not being a good shot.

 

I could understand if it was a T-44 those things are troll.

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You realize I do acknowledge all of these issues? I just don't feel like these issues stops the tank from being useful at 6.7. That's the difference between you and me. 

I guess I felt guilty stomping people at 6.3, I guess I should join all of you with the whine for getting the club fest back, so as to be welcomed back as a teaboo, when with the same breath I call for uptiering Leopard A1A1, or Abrams.

 

Sorry, I just want to look at this game as objectively as much as I can and if you would notice JUST A LITTLE ITTY BIT, this is like the only thing I am against the flow with teaboos, otherwise I am up there with everything British TT considered.

 

But yeah, crucify me, tell me I'm not worthy of your time your Highness, please. I probably poured milk into my black tea by the looks of the crapstorm anyone with different opinion gets here.

Edited by Phelpsiee
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Just now, Phelpsiee said:

 

For harder targets you use APDS, even though it's a crappy needle, you can still take out gunner of Ferdinand rather easily. No one is forcing you to use AP for hard targets.

Mk3 was uptier material even before the AP buff, but hey, that's just me.

 

And I can use plenty of games in Panther, when APDS flew through my tank and killed my gunner, making me totally useless. Fast reload and another APDS, if well placed, killing me. 

Or better yet, well placed AP OHKing me.

We can go on and on with personal experiences. APDS is a pain in the ****, but you are forgetting lot of stuff, that cannot be ignored in this counter strike game. Turret traverse, reverse speed, reload time, even stabilization.

Game is situational and sometimes having the above helps a lot.

 

What I do agree is, that there is a huge black hole at 6.3, but I ackonlwedged that at the day they were uptiered, so I am longer in this discussion than you and I am tired to write my thoughts again.

thats the point why should the british always have to aim for the gunner and be forced to use APDS no other nation is forced to used upgraded ammo becuase the stock ammo is good enough.

 

Reverse speed of the tank and turret treverse is of no use if you cant kill the target you aim at in one go as you are sat there like a sitting duck for some other enemy to ohk as you have had to brake cover in order to get a shot that is going to disable the gunner and driver oh wait im joking British AP/ APDS dont do that do they so your forced to pin point crew which 90% of the time takes more than two shots.

 

Also Stabilizers are only good when the hull is moving other than that they have no bearing on the gun when still and hull down, reload speed is only good if your able to actually hit and KILL the gunner which oh wait british ammo just doesnt do unless on the odd blue moon.

 

And to top it of all other nations take one shot at you if they dont kill you they have knocked out half your crew to the point where you are just sat there waiting for the final shot 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Necrons31467 said:

 

I'm starting to get a strong sense of you just not being a good shot.

i have no issues aimming with germans, russians and usa dont play other nations as of yet seem to be able to get many kills with all of those more so russians

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So again, you have problems with APDS performance and APHE overperformance. How exactly moving FV and Mk3 helps that issue?

It's a simple question. 

Your passion is great, I admire it, I lost it a while back, but it's poorly aimed.

 

Sigh.

 

We should be yet again pushing for APDS fixes, doing another crapstorm thread as during first days of January, but instead we do the same as Gaijin does.

Looking for half-assed solutions.

 

Congratulations. I'm done here.

Edited by Phelpsiee
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1 minute ago, Phelpsiee said:

So again, you have problems with APDS performance and APHE overperformance. How exactly moving FV and Mk3 helps that issue?

It's a simple question. 

 

Sigh.

 

We should be yet again pushing for APDS fixes, doing another crapstorm thread as during first days of January, but instead we do the same as Gaijin does.

Looking for half-assed solutions.

 

Congratulations. I'm done here.

every attempt of anything british i have put out there has been locked 

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9 minutes ago, Phelpsiee said:

You realize I do acknowledge all of these issues? I just don't feel like these issues stops the tank from being useful at 6.7. That's the difference between you and me. 

I guess I felt guilty stomping people at 6.3, I guess I should join all of you with the whine for getting the club fest back, so as to be welcomed back as a teaboo, when with the same breath I call for uptiering Leopard A1A1, or Abrams.

 

Sorry, I just want to look at this game as objectively as much as I can and if you would notice JUST A LITTLE ITTY BIT, this is like the only thing I am against the flow with teaboos, otherwise I am up there with everything British TT considered.

 

But yeah, crucify me, tell me I'm not worthy of your time your Highness, please. I probably poured milk into my black tea by the looks of the crapstorm anyone with different opinion gets here.

 

Asking for tanks to have a BR increase or decrease is pointless hence why the FV4202 and Mk.3 should have been left were they were. Moving BR's just breaks tanks so MAYBE people should be asking for the BR system to get a much needed rebuild because as it stands its unfit for purpose. 

 

(And yes I understand that asking for the Mk.3 to go to 6.3 is pointless.....well done have a cookie)

 

Also milk in tea makes me want to puke :crying:

 

not that any of this really matters to me......I uninstalled WT yesterday.

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4 minutes ago, Ghost_Rider12 said:

 

Asking for tanks to have a BR increase or decrease is pointless hence why the FV4202 and Mk.3 should have been left were they were. Moving BR's just breaks tanks so MAYBE people should be asking for the BR system to get a much needed rebuild because as it stands its unfit for purpose. 

 

(And yes I understand that asking for the Mk.3 to go to 6.3 is pointless.....well done have a cookie)

 

Also milk in tea makes me want to puke :crying:

 

not that any of this really matters to me......I uninstalled WT yesterday.

guess your fed up with the broken systems in this game 

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3 minutes ago, moz2003 said:

guess your fed up with the broken systems in this game 

 

yup as surprising as it sounds I have more fun with WoT kinda helped by my world of warships clan mates playing WoT too :D  they did try WT but it just felt very meh according to them.

 

Anyhow we are going off topic....... :Bayan:

Edited by Ghost_Rider12
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Sorry, those tanks had 70%+ winrates. If this is not the indicator of a needed change, then I don't know what is..

It all seems to me we do like having a double standards. When some USSR/GER tank overperforms - we shout uptier. 

Yet when it's something from our tank tree, we bite, we scratch, we suddenly do not see reason. 

 

That's my observation. 

 

Pros:

lower tanks can breathe now, thanks to the move

 

Cons:

black hole at 6.3

 

Neutral:

6.7 sucks for every nation, because it gets sucked to 7.3 - 7.7 all the time, so it's not like UK is in it alone

 

 

All of the APDS and APHE talk is useless, because nothing changes with BR movement for those. If APDS were fixed, oh boy, would that be the days - L7 tanks above T-54s (Mk10, Vickers).

I wish I could see those days..

Edited by Phelpsiee
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