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Rptd 29/Mar/2018 AMX-50 Surbaissé: incorrect reload time

Full name of the vehicles affected

AMX-50 Surbaissé (AB/RB/SB)

Detailed description of the problem

Currently, the AMX-50 Surbaissé has an in-game reload time of 7.5s (8 shots/min; see the last document in the spoiler below). The enclosed documents from the manufacturer of its TOB-120 turret details the duration of all the autoloader and gun operations, from loading, firing, until the evacuation of the shell, pointing to a total time of 6s (10 shots/min), including firing of the gun.

Tourelle Oscillante Basse de 120 - TOB-120 (Low ("Basse") Oscillating Turret of 120mm), Description - spécification technique (Description - technical specification), Compagnie des Ateliers et Forges de la Loire (manufacturer of the TOB-120). The full document (some pages are barely readable) can be viewed here. This webpage presents this document along with others concerning the AMX-50 Surbaissé and a few other tanks, from the Châtellerault Archives of the French Army.


The relevant page is p. 29 (see spoiler below) where a table titled "Fonctionnement - Diagramme des temps" (Operation - Time diagram) details all the durations of the autoloader and gun operations, adding up to a total of 6s (including firing the gun).
The left part of the legend of the table (the right part is technical and not very informative) reads (my best translation, with the corresponding durations estimated from the diagram):
1/ Rotation du barillet (rotation of the barrel): 1s
2/ Remplissage de la civière (feeding/filling of the "civière"; I do not know the translation of "civière" in the gun context; literally gurney/stretcher/cot; I think it is the part holding the ammunition in the autoloader/gun, so "gurney" should be roughly correct): 0.3s (happening during phase 1/)
3/ Aller de la civière (motion of the gurney): 1.1s (but starting 0.1s before the end of phase 1/)
4/ Refoulement de la munition (insertion of the ammunition): 1s
5/ Lancée et fermeture de la culasse (momentum and closing of the breech): 0.3s
6/ Retour de civière (return of the gurney): 1s
7/ Rentrée du vérin du barillet (return of the barrel cylinder): 2s (happening during phase 3/ and 4/)
8/ Tir (mise à feu, recul, rentrée en batterie, ouverture de culasse, éjection) (shooting (firing, recoil, counter-recoil, opening of the breech, ejection)): 0.7s
9/ Evacuation de la douille, rentrée du refouloir (evacuation of the shell, return of the loading lever): 1s

The lower legend says "Temps en secondes" (times in seconds); all operations including firing take 6s.

The text below the tables says "Les 7 premières opérations se succèdent sans interruption, la 8ème et par la suite la 9ème se produisent qu'après la mise à feu" (The first 7 operations happen without interruption, while the 8th and then the 9th happen only after firing)

This typed document is not dated but is probably from the period 1955-1958 (see below).
TOB-120 is the official name of the turret of the AMX-50 Surbaissé (see below the cover of a document dated 7 January 1959 by the Direction des Etudes et Fabrications d'Armement, the technical division of the French Ministry of Defense). In fact, a shorter, less complete and manuscript document (hence probably anterior to the main reference), with its pages not numbered and dated 19 July 1955 on the lower left corner of its cover, also refers to a total 6s reload (including firing of the gun), detailing the different operations in the same manner as in the main document (but less precisely, as 2 of the 9 simultaneous operations are omitted).



Cover of the main reference from the manufacturer of the TOB-120 turret of the AMX-50 Surbaissé (48 pages)


Page 29 of the above reference (rotated by 90°) pointing to a total 6s reloading-firing time and detailing 9 operation steps (2 happening simultaneously to others).


Cover of a 1949 technical booklet on the AMX-50 Surbaissé and its TOB-120 turret



Cover of a second reference from the manufacturer of the TOB-120 turret of the AMX-50 Surbaissé, dated 19 July 1955. This manuscript document is much shorter (15 not numbered pages+blueprints vs 48 pages) and less complete than the main reference, and is hence probably anterior to the main reference. It details, in the same manner as in the main reference, 7 of the gun operations (covering autoloading and firing of the gun), but omits 2 operations happening simultaneously to others and mentioned in the main reference. It also points to a total 6s reloading-firing time (page 7 presented here, not numbered).


In-game reload time of the AMX-50 Surbaissé at 7.5s

Proposed fix
Change the reload time of the AMX-50 Surbaissé to 6s instead of the current 7.5s.


Edited by No_Camping
  • Like 3
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  • Upvote 16
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Thanks No_Camping,

                                I was just in here (F&D) doing something for another OP and saw your posts.  So I thought I would Approve them in case you or SILENT wanted to add anything.


I will get to it when I can as I explained in the PM


Cheers mate,


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  • KnightoftheAbyss changed the title to Rptd 29/Mar/2018 AMX-50 Surbaissé: incorrect reload time

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