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2 hours ago, Nope said:

oh neat a challenger 2 upgrade hopefully togs ii is replaced

 

oh wait

It was AFAIK on this Technology Demonstration Vehicle. Replaced by a new thermal sight from Leonardo. The Commander has a new sight from Safran.

 

2 hours ago, Nope said:

well hopefully it's stabilized now

 

oh wait

Isn't the gunner's sight at least already stabilised on the Challenger 2? In any case, one of the improvements stated to have been made by BAE is better engagment sequences, the capability of auto-target tracking and new gun control equipment.

 

2 hours ago, Nope said:

well maybe they finally figured out charm-3 ain't cutting it

 

dammit

Changes with the gun and ammo have yet to be requested by the MoD sadly. At least they're exploring up-rating or upgrading the engine though.

 

Video about the Black Night here:

 

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7 hours ago, Nope said:

 

oh neat a challenger 2 upgrade hopefully togs ii is replaced

 

oh wait

 

well hopefully it's stabilized now

  

oh wait

 

well maybe they finally figured out charm-3 ain't cutting it

 

dammit

 

basically the main thing to be hyped about is the panoramic sight that puts situational awareness back on track with the rest of the modern world currently, though it holds no candle to the xlr's literal cheat tier situational awareness package

Hey, TOGS is stabilized...well kind of. The gun is stabilized and TOGS is latched to the gun :p:

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19 hours ago, Time4Tea said:

It was AFAIK on this Technology Demonstration Vehicle. Replaced by a new thermal sight from Leonardo. The Commander has a new sight from Safran.

 

Isn't the gunner's sight at least already stabilised on the Challenger 2? In any case, one of the improvements stated to have been made by BAE is better engagment sequences, the capability of auto-target tracking and new gun control equipment.

 

Well hopefully the thermal sight is up to everyone else's standards, but the question is, is it an actual part of the sighting system itself? That has been one of the biggest weaknesses of the CR 2 for decades and the MoD has to do something about it. Even the Russians got rid of that problem in their tanks, and Russia is pretty bad with all things electronic and sighting.

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15 minutes ago, Nope said:

Well hopefully the thermal sight is up to everyone else's standards, but the question is, is it an actual part of the sighting system itself? That has been one of the biggest weaknesses of the CR 2 for decades and the MoD has to do something about it. Even the Russians got rid of that problem in their tanks, and Russia is pretty bad with all things electronic and sighting.

What do you mean by "part of the sighting system" ?

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27 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

Well hopefully the thermal sight is up to everyone else's standards, but the question is, is it an actual part of the sighting system itself? That has been one of the biggest weaknesses of the CR 2 for decades and the MoD has to do something about it. Even the Russians got rid of that problem in their tanks, and Russia is pretty bad with all things electronic and sighting.

I'm not quite sure what you mean but according to this some of the improvements BAE has in store for the Challenger 2 (and are likely fitted to the Black Night) include a "new electronic and video architecture" (taken from Ajax) in which all the systems can be controlled from the Commander's station - including sighting. The Commander can transfer tasks to other crewmembers "such as the control and viewing of additional sensors and systems". Another improvement is said to be "vastly improved sighting systems." too. I imagine the thermal sight is now integrated with the sighting system if it wasn't before.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ronin_GE said:

What do you mean by "part of the sighting system" ?

 

The CR 2 has a proper sighting system of its own that is fully stabilized in two axes, but it only has day sights. Thermal sights are as much of an add on thing as say, Shtora, so TOGS II is essentially an entirely different sighting system altogether. This results in the dreaded sight drift that hampers a CR 2's ability to accurately fire on the move especially compared to say, the Merkava mk III BAZ with its amazing FCS that locks onto targets while having thermal optics integrated into the sighting system itself. Seeing how the sight is still in the exact same spot as TOGS II, that problem probably isn't fixed. Should that continue, the CR 2 could be the only MBT of its generation to have sight drift problems, as the Russians seem to have fixed theirs with the T-72B obr 1985 or at least the T-90M.

 

also currently working on a list of combat tank engines from interwar to modern times but it is quite the mess

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7 minutes ago, Nope said:

This results in the dreaded sight drift that hampers a CR 2's ability to accurately fire on the move especially compared to say, the Merkava mk III BAZ with its amazing FCS that locks onto targets while having thermal optics integrated into the sighting system itself.

While I can't speak much more about the sights (despite the obvious reasons as to why they aren't, I wish they'd be more in-depth when describing these upgrades) part of the mentioned upgrades includes "automatic target-tracking" which I assume is similar to the target locking ability of the Merkava's FCS?

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1 hour ago, Time4Tea said:

While I can't speak much more about the sights (despite the obvious reasons as to why they aren't, I wish they'd be more in-depth when describing these upgrades) part of the mentioned upgrades includes "automatic target-tracking" which I assume is similar to the target locking ability of the Merkava's FCS?

 

It might be, but the sight drift will still remain most likely. However, that is a very needed improvement over TOGS II that is well past its expiration date by now. It's like keeping the M1A1's old mediocre screen resolution in the SEP V3, now named M1A2C.

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On 26/09/2018 at 00:46, Nope said:

 

oh neat a challenger 2 upgrade hopefully togs ii is replaced

 

oh wait

 

well hopefully it's stabilized now

 

oh wait

 

well maybe they finally figured out charm-3 ain't cutting it

 

dammit

 

basically the main thing to be hyped about is the panoramic sight that puts situational awareness back on track with the rest of the modern world currently, though it holds no candle to the xlr's literal cheat tier situational awareness package

What do the XLR be using, my dude?

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4 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

What do the XLR be using, my dude?

 

 

Basically vehicles in the Scorpion program will discharge smoke grenades when lazed by enemy MBTs just like the Merkava mk IV. Unlike the mk IV however, everyone else with Scorpion on the battlefield will know that one vehicle of theirs has been lazed and the location is pinpointed on the map. From there suggestions are given on how to take out the enemy, which even includes CAS. At this point the French troops will be consistently outplaying the enemy with ease. Imagine if you will being some rando in a T-72A, thinking you've finally gotten a bead on a mere Jaguar IFV. Simple task, then smoke drops and your laze is gone. No biggie, maybe you'll laze again or estimate the shot quickly. After all, it's a mere IFV: it can't do anything to a T-72A's UFP. But then you get slapped by a Leclerc that magically knows you're here. Or then you get slapped by another Jaguar that for some reason managed to sneak past defenses. Or then a Tiger attack helicopter somehow managed to show up with a missile lock, and then the ATGM blows the turret clean off. Or worse, a Rafale in the area gets hold of this and just JDAMs your butt. Every instance of your arena tank game days of receiving shots from absolutely nowhere will come back to life with the XLR's Scorpion. It's so crazy OP that the US is looking into it themselves, as is the IDF it seems should the Barak actually enter mass production.

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4 hours ago, Ronin_GE said:

Don't believe too much advertising.

Also on a symetric battlefield OPFOR's EW department will have a word on that too ;)

 

so the only way to stop it is through electronic warfare that would otherwise affect anyone else's battlefield management system

 

i mean i hope the french are onto something, because the leclerc weakspots are just completely unbearable

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6 hours ago, Nope said:

 

 

Basically vehicles in the Scorpion program will discharge smoke grenades when lazed by enemy MBTs just like the Merkava mk IV. Unlike the mk IV however, everyone else with Scorpion on the battlefield will know that one vehicle of theirs has been lazed and the location is pinpointed on the map. From there suggestions are given on how to take out the enemy, which even includes CAS. At this point the French troops will be consistently outplaying the enemy with ease. Imagine if you will being some rando in a T-72A, thinking you've finally gotten a bead on a mere Jaguar IFV. Simple task, then smoke drops and your laze is gone. No biggie, maybe you'll laze again or estimate the shot quickly. After all, it's a mere IFV: it can't do anything to a T-72A's UFP. But then you get slapped by a Leclerc that magically knows you're here. Or then you get slapped by another Jaguar that for some reason managed to sneak past defenses. Or then a Tiger attack helicopter somehow managed to show up with a missile lock, and then the ATGM blows the turret clean off. Or worse, a Rafale in the area gets hold of this and just JDAMs your butt. Every instance of your arena tank game days of receiving shots from absolutely nowhere will come back to life with the XLR's Scorpion. It's so crazy OP that the US is looking into it themselves, as is the IDF it seems should the Barak actually enter mass production.

So it's something close to this thing:

It will enter service at about when the Barack enters service as well, but the main issue is to get all platforms to be compatible with this system.

The French are positioned just as well as Israel is, due to their recent AFV modernization programs, and their new 5th gen ATGMs (MMP and Spike 2 respectively).

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41 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

so the only way to stop it is through electronic warfare that would otherwise affect anyone else's battlefield management system

 

i mean i hope the french are onto something, because the leclerc weakspots are just completely unbearable

 

The french have been heavily betting on data fusion since the 90's. IIRC these days, the Rafale can automatically feed data to the Leclercs FCS and tactical systems. Same for FELIN.

 

Also why the hate for the Leclerc's turret anyways?

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1 hour ago, _TomokoAnabuki said:

Also why the hate for the Leclerc's turret anyways?

 

The gun mantlet can't even stop autocannon fire and the sights are weakspots too. This results in one of the shoddiest front turret armor layouts of all modern MBTs, especially compared to something with more consistent front turret armor like a Leopard 2A5 or a CR 2. Most of the turret front there is just consistently as well armored as the strongest areas.

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10 hours ago, Nope said:

 

so the only way to stop it is through electronic warfare that would otherwise affect anyone else's battlefield management system

 

i mean i hope the french are onto something, because the leclerc weakspots are just completely unbearable

You have options;

When you are able to do "front door jamming" then it will effect only your enemies data links. But, given, this becomes more difficult nowadays.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 22/01/2019 at 16:35, LULZ said:

This looks like an actual improvement, UK will never get it

 

CR2 LEP

 

Challenger 2 Life Extermination Program

 

Edited by Necrons31467
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  • 1 year later...

the Leclerc XLR have a bit more (or at least is projected)

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there is the addition of a "drum" on the gun to have 6 shells ready autoloader faster than the actual one (which will only reload the drum) 
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and a lot more protection with more defensive grenade (smoke or others) roof protection and top of engine protection 

 

for the rest i'm kind of sceared ... the 140 mm was tested extensively lately 
report say 70 % more pen ... giving a rof estimate at around 1600 mm of pen

 

last thing as i don't know if it is relevant or not but France is also developing a 120 special HE shell for indirect fire / proxy fuse anti air and ground / retardedfuse .

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On 06/02/2019 at 21:03, RoflSeal said:

Is Arjun "Kanchan armor" really just steel + fuel tank??

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 


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Arjun_Mk1_MBTs_Schematic.JPG
 

 

 

 

tYeHUgk.jpg

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