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Rptd 01/Mar/2018 Incorrect reload time for French light tanks using the 37mm SA gun


Hello fellow tankers!


Full name of the vehicles affected
FCM.36, R.39, H.35, H.39, H.39 “Cambronne”, the 5 French light tanks carrying the 37mm SA gun (SA18 or SA 38).

Detailed description of the problem

Currently, the 5 tanks mentioned above have a maximum fire rate of 10 shots/min (Ace crew with maxed experience 150). Below, I present 3 official sources (noted A, B, C) pointing to a much higher fire rate of the 37mm SA gun (SA actually stands for “semi-automatic” [A]).

As explained in [A], “the semi-automatic breech (2), using a vertical sliding block, facilitates the quick loading of the weapon”. The footnote (2) explains that “Unlocking and opening of the breech, the arming, the extraction and ejection are automatic”. Note that the different shells used by the 37mm SA gun (not all modeled in-game [A,C]) typically weight half a kilogram, and are hence easily handled (see the video below, also showing how simple is loading a shell).

Loading and firing the 37mm SA18 gun of a F.T.17 (the sound of the video is delayed).

 

Documents [A, B] state that the 37mm SA gun in French light tanks can fire up to 20 shots/min, while [C] mentions a fire rate of 15 shots/min (also for some other French tank guns suffering from the same in-game slow fire rate issue).

 

Proposed fix

Change the fire rate of the 5 French light tanks carrying the 37mm SA gun to at least 15 shots/min and preferably to the optimal value 20 shots/min. Indeed, in-game, it is quite rare to fire more than 3-4 shots without pausing, so that a fully experienced and aced crew should be able to sustain this maximum fire rate for a short period.

 

Addendum

Note that the French low tier tanks are the only ones systematically affected by fire rates at or well below 10 shots/min. A noticeable exception is the AMC.35 carrying the 47mm SA35 gun with a fire rate of 20 shots/min (while other vehicles like the S.35 with the very same gun presents an “optimal” fire rate of 8 shots/min… the subject of a future bug report).
In addition, the fact that the low BR (especially in the BR 1.0-2.0 range) French tanks are not competitive discourage a lot of players to grind the French tree, despite the fact that most of French tanks are very competitive in the 3.3-7.7 BR range. In practice, and contrary to the in-game experience, a tank like the S.35 was only outmatched by the Pz. IV, but was superior to Pz. I & II and most Pz. III, as demonstrated during the battle of Hannut and the siege of Lille, which delayed the German forces and permitted the escape from Dunkirk.


References

A. INSTRUCTION SUR L'ARMEMENT ET LE TIR DANS LES UNITÉS DE CHARS LÉGERS, Ministère de la Guerre – Division de l’Infanterie, Imprimerie Nationale (1937) [INSTRUCTION ON ARMAMENT AND SHOOTING IN LIGHT TANK UNITS, Ministry of War]; full text available on the web site of the French National Library (BNF); see the relevant page 10 (page 28/198 of the numeric version).

Spoiler

5a8e043150d9a_Instruction_sur_larmement-

The 37 SA (1) gun for light tanks is a direct-fire gun that allows a fast and accurate firing at small distances; its rate of fire can reach 20 shots per minute.

It consists of a tube mounted on a slide. The tube is connected to a recuperator brake whose role is to dampen the recoil of the tube right after firing and then brings it back at its firing position.


The gun carriage is constituted by the tank itself. The weapon is connected to the apparatus by means of a mask whose description appears in Part IV of the Regulations for light tanks units.

The semi-automatic breech (2), using a vertical sliding block, facilitates the quick loading of the weapon.

 

The aiming is achieved by means of a scope that includes a scale of ticks engraved on the reticle.

_____________________________________________________________

Footnote (1): Semi-automatic.

Footnote (2): Unlocking and opening of the breech, the arming, the extraction and ejection are automatic.

(Translated by No_Camping)


B. AIDE-MÉMOIRE D'INSTRUCTION POUR LES UNITÉS DE CHARS LÉGERS : CANON DE 37 S. A., École des chars de combat (1937) [INSTRUCTIONAL CHECKLIST FOR LIGHT TANK UNITS: 37 S.A. GUN, Battle Tanks School]; full text available on the web site of the French National Library (BNF) see the relevant page 7/36 of the numeric version (the pages of the original document are not numbered).This document is marked as “confidential”.

Spoiler

5a8e063154460_Ecoledescharsdecombats-p7.

1. What is the 37mm S.A. Gun?
- it is a direct-fire weapon, semi-automatic, that is to say in which part of the operations (unlocking and opening of the breech, arming, extraction, ejection) are executed without the intervention of the gunner;
- its carriage is constituted by the tank itself, to which it is connected by a mask that is part of the turret of the tank;
- the gun works by use of the recoil;
- its aiming is done by means of a scope;
- it fires a 37mm caliber shell at the maximum rate of 20 shots per minute.


(Translated by No_Camping)

 

C. ARMEMENT DES CHARS ET VÉHICULES BLINDÉS - État-Major de l'Armée - Section de l'Armement et des Études Techniques. SHAT Carton 7 N 4205-2 SAET - Chars et armements anti-chars (dossier 1936-1939) [WEAPONRY OF TANKS AND ARMORED VEHICLES - Army Staff - Armaments and Technical Studies Section. SHAT Box 7 N 4205-2 SAET - Tanks and Anti-Tank Weapons (1936-1939 file)]; the data in this document only accessible at the Service Historique de la Défense (French army historical archives) in Vincennes have been summarized by the author of this website who had direct access to it (table in French and English); see the 2 wide horizontal table cells below the cells for the 37 SA18 and 37 SA38 guns mentioning a 15 shots/min rate of fire for the 37mm gun.

Spoiler

5a8e084e4d3ec_Armementdeschars-EN-sm.jpg

 

Edited by No_Camping
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Thanks for the report.

 

I will read and investigate and get back to you shortly.

 

Cheers

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  • KnightoftheAbyss changed the title to Rptd 01/Mar/2018 Incorrect reload time for French light tanks using the 37mm SA gun

Hi
  Thank you for your interest and help improving the game.  

 

Your information has been forwarded to the developers for their consideration.  

 

This thread will remain unlocked for one week (7 days) so that anyone with additional information\evidence\examples will have a place to post.  
After this time the report will remain active but will be archived.

 

It will also serve as a place where the developers will post questions for you to answer so please keep up to date here.

 

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