Deadelder

Bushes on tanks PTW

Other players have something that i would like to have, but i dont like to pay for stuff. Ill just go to the forums and rant about it. If i cant have it no one can.

 

I also dont have time to grind the warbond shop, guess ill waste more time creating a forum thread.

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5 hours ago, KillaKiwi said:

Apart from broken BRs and compression, bushes on tanks is my biggest complain in WT.

It's almost like in the game Hawken where you could pay to change your mech to look like the mech of a different class.

It was really breaking immersion and also gave player an initial advantage and bushes are just like that.

Except that in RB seeing before being seen is like 3/4 of the battle, so putting weeds on the tank and it making it harder to be seen is actually supportive of the very mission of that mode of play. Also, camoflaging a tank isn't exactly analogous to disguising your mech to make it look like a different type of mech. It's something people did in real life wars to avoid their tanks being seen.

I honestly don't think the hurdle to putting weeds on one's tank is all that high, and so for people who don't do it, it's either because they aren't curious enough to find out how, or else they choose not to. And that's their choice. Just because they choose not to doesn't mean nobody else should be allowed to choose to either.

Edited by Sethbag
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4 hours ago, Sethbag said:

I honestly don't think the hurdle to putting weeds on one's tank is all that high, and so for people who don't do it, it's either because they aren't curious enough to find out how, or else they choose not to. And that's their choice. Just because they choose not to doesn't mean nobody else should be allowed to choose to either.

You also have a choice to play OP tank and club other tanks for fun or you could choose not to do so. Doesn't change the fact that you're an xxxxxxx if you deliberately play OP tanks.

I don't play with bushes because I'm always disgusted seeing people in their OP tanks 100% covered in bushes to make it even more harder to take them out.

There will always be players who do anything to get an advantages over others and don't care for a fair fight.

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On 8.2.2018 at 4:32 PM, Dodo_Dud said:

By that logic: So is crew skill.

 

Correct. I dislike the advantages that crew skills offer equally. Simply because people willing to spend money can get a serious ingame advantage here.

 

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BUT I agree, it is debatable if bushes are unfair. Or premiums. Or skilled crews. Or researched modules. Or better input devices. When is life fair?

 

Life =/= fair is a most lousy and fatalistic argument to justify pay 2 win features in a game. In competetive sport and games - and same counts for e-sport - you'd always aim for equal chances or the sport wouldn't be a sport in the first place and become unattractive. There's a certain degree of what people tolerate and Gaijin is a company that wants to make money but it certainly shouldn't do it via putting more and more emphasis on selling ingame advantages. And that's the way it heads unfortunately. It's time to reverse that course. And by the way: I probably dumped more money into this game than 90% of the forum users, without investing a single cent into ingame advantages.

 

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1) Those who have them have a severe advantage over those who don't - and they aren't aquired by ordinary gaming / Wrong! No severe advantages, acquired by ordinary gaming via warbonds system.

 

I'm a bit baffled that someone would deny the ingame advantages.

 

They are used to hide weakspots, despite what Gaijin once claimed they are visible beyond 50m (I saw them at 400m+) and effectively break up your silhouette towards the horizon on hill edges etc. plus they make it much harder for people to spot you when they are just having a quick check of their surroundings. Every single of these points is a severe advantage in it's own right.

 

And it's absolutely debateable if "having to go through tasks where you get dictated how to play the game for days or weeks a month" is still considered "ordinary gaming". To me ordinary gaming is that I can play the game the way I want with the vehicles I want and don't have to fly bombers from Tier III+ because my tasks wants me to destroy 80 ground targets. Or that as a Sim only player I would be forced to play RB or - god forbid! - even Arcade. No one should be left at an disadvantage because he doesn't want to go through this.

 

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2) They are unrealistic to the max (great for modes that call themselves Realistic Battles or Simulator) / Same as driving a tank or flying a ww2 plane from your PC on 2D dislpay system and doing it alone.

 

Okay now it's getting ridiculous. So everything goes because after all this is just a PC game. When can I get my UFO's and Lasers in Sim Mode please?

 

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3) They look ridiculous together with the decorations which are equally abused (once again great for modes that call themselves Realistic Battles or Simulator) / Don't use them. Simple as that. 

 

That if you don't want to be part of having to use something in order not to be left out of severe ingame advantages was the argument in the first place. So "then don't use them" is apparently no proper solution. That you have to disfigure your tank on top of it just adds up for those who don't like the look/lack of realism these implement.

 

 

On 8.2.2018 at 3:44 PM, eNVee1 said:

In other words "I am too lazy/stupid to get few warbonds and get them for free, I don't like them, Gaijin REMOVE!" Yeah right... :facepalm:

 

No, more like: "I am too lazy/stupid to properly read and comprehend a post in order to understand the point of a debate". Seriously can we stop with those cheap strawman arguments and insults?

 

It's not about lazyness or even stupidity regarding warbonds. These are just mock arguments by those who want to keep the advantages they get through this system. Fact is that with such a system (grind or money) there will always be a majority who don't want to be a part of it. And since it's a F2P game rightfully so. So you will always be selling ingame advantages and "force" others to partake if they don't want to give up on those advantages.

 

If you really think that bushes and decorations don't offer a noticeable advantage then just agree to a petition towards Gaijin to implement a switch in the options where you can turn them off on other vehicles while still being able to enjoy the "visuals" on your own.

Edited by ColdHeat
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24 minutes ago, ColdHeat said:

Correct. I despise the advantages that crew skills offer equally. Simply because people willing to spend money here can get a serious ingame advantage.

 

Well, I was refering to the mechanism of crew level in comparison to the mechanism of warbonds. I thought the parallel was made obvious, but I guess it wasn't obvious enough:

You will only aquire crew levels if you enter the crew level store and spend your accumulated crew xp. Just as you need to enter the warbond store to spend your accumulated war bonds. Without user intervention, no crew level or war bond item is aquired.

 

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Life =/= fair is a most lousy and fatalistic argument to justify pay 2 win features in a game. In competetive sport - and same counts for e-sport - you've always the aim of equal chances for everyone. There's a certain degree of what people tolerate and Gaijin is a company that wants to make money but it certainly shouldn't do it via putting more and more emphasis on selling ingame advantages. And that's the way it goes for some years now.

 

Well, I basically agreed with you on bushes: Some people had a chance to buy bushes in a way that to my knowledge is no longer available for money or grindable. So there is no equality at all. Then again, there are vehicles that can not be obtained by either grind nor money these days. Well, similar? You didn't at all resond to "input devices", I didn't even list the rest of the hardware. Isn't that pay2win as well?

 

So perhaps you define a little more precise what exactly you mean by "you've always the aim of equal chances for everyone". Because this is likely where the whole disagreement comes from. I'd like to know "when is life fair?". What exactly is your yardstick of fairness?

Edited by Dodo_Dud
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11 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

Well, I was refering to the mechanism of crew level in comparison to the mechanism of warbonds. I thought the parallel was made obvious, but I guess it wasn't obvious enough:

You will only aquire crew levels if you enter the crew level store and spend your accumulated crew xp. Just as you need to enter the warbond store to spend your accumulated war bonds. Without user intervention, no crew level or war bond item is aquired.

 

 

How is "entering a menu" even relevant here? Outside of which box are you thinking right now because I doesn't appear to me how this would be a proper response/counter argument to the claim of "Those who have them have a severe advantage over those who don't - and they aren't aquired by ordinary gaming" in the first place.

 

Quote

So perhaps you define a little more precise what exactly you mean by "you've always the aim of equal chances for everyone". Because this is likely where the whole disagreement comes from. I'd like to know "when is life fair?". What exactly is your yardstick of fairness?

 

That's where I thought my point was obvious enough. Have you ever seen a tennis match that was decided by the equipment and not for 99% due to the skill of the player? Or football. Or weight lifting? That's the point of a sport. To be in a fair competition with other people. The only known exception to me would be motor sport simply because there the engineering is seen as a vital part of the competition. Same counts for games though. Those competetive games are the most fun and commercial successful which are the most balanced and achieve that spirit where money isn't a main decider (CS:GO, DOTA etc.). Whenever advantages, that are mainly achieved by money or different gear come into play, people begin to get outright offended when that becomes a decider in a competition and every game should be careful to walk down that path.

 

You mentioned hardware. The fact that the advantages ULQ offers is such a hot topic for many just proves that.

 

There won't be perfect fairness in a PC game that is effectively a niche product with the goal to generate money for the devs, and everyone should be aware of that, but as long as there are ways to achieve that goal without having to put more focus on selling advantages (once again perfect example: CS:GO) there is only the business model of the devs to blame for such a course.

 

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3 hours ago, KillaKiwi said:

 

 

I think I paid around $20 or $25 for the weeds I have on my tanks. You can do that too. The chances are equal. Oh, you don't want to? You're philosophically opposed to doing it? You think it disfigures your tanks? Fine. That's your choice. I made mine.

And putting camo on tanks is something people did ever since there were tanks, when the crap got real. Look at WWII photos of tanks with way more foliage on them than we can put on a tank in WT. Go back and tell those guys how they disfigured their tanks, or how they weren't giving their enemies a "fair" chance at killing them.

You play the game the way you want to. You won't shame me or probably anyone else into following suit. I like having the weeds on my tanks. I'm glad I put them on. If there were some other different weeds (like more than two of the desert scrub variety) I'd probably buy them too so I could more finely tailor the camoflage to the particular paint job.

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On 08/02/2018 at 2:10 PM, *cartman400 said:

You do realize you can buy them with Warbonds right?

 

With that argument you could say that with only what, 50.000hours you can unlock everything?  If you get paid say 16$ an hour net (and most of us make way more) that would be 800.000 dollar equivalent.  Now, most of us enjoy playing the game, but wont play that much, so it is designed to be pay2win. 

 

While I dont agree with gaijin, I understand their logic.. 

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8 hours ago, Sethbag said:

 

 

I think I paid around $20 or $25 for the weeds I have on my tanks. You can do that too. The chances are equal. Oh, you don't want to? You're philosophically opposed to doing it? You think it disfigures your tanks? Fine. That's your choice. I made mine.

And putting camo on tanks is something people did ever since there were tanks, when the crap got real. Look at WWII photos of tanks with way more foliage on them than we can put on a tank in WT. Go back and tell those guys how they disfigured their tanks, or how they weren't giving their enemies a "fair" chance at killing them.

You play the game the way you want to. You won't shame me or probably anyone else into following suit. I like having the weeds on my tanks. I'm glad I put them on. If there were some other different weeds (like more than two of the desert scrub variety) I'd probably buy them too so I could more finely tailor the camoflage to the particular paint job.

I don't have anything against bushes if as long as it doesn't affect gameplay. If you just like it for the looks then it should be the same as a user skin that others can't see.

If people insinst on having bushes that affect gameplay it should be an unlockable like extra armor that is put in place by the devs in a way that it wouldn't affect the tanks visibility. The only restriction gameplay wise we have is in SIM battles where you can block your gun optic with bushes. However you can still put bushes in front of the drivers viewport and every other viewport thats on the tank which doesn't make sense.

Edited by KillaKiwi
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7 minutes ago, ColdHeat said:

How is "entering a menu" even relevant here? Outside of which box are you thinking right now because I doesn't appear to me how this would be a proper response/counter argument to the claim of "Those who have them have a severe advantage over those who don't - and they aren't aquired by ordinary gaming" in the first place.

 

Right there. Warbonds and crew level both require user intervention to build up. If you don't intervene, you still have the initial crew level after 4 years of play.  If you don't intervene, you will never get anything from the warbonds store. You claim that war bonds are not aquired by ordinary gaming. Well, by that perspective, neither is crew level nor many other things. For those, you have to make choices.

 

36 minutes ago, ColdHeat said:

To be in a fair competition with other people.

OK, but that doesn't explain what is fair and what isn't.

 

38 minutes ago, ColdHeat said:

Have you ever seen a tennis match that was decided by the equipment and not for 99% due to the skill of the player?

 

Good point. I can't decide from looking, BUT I have heared many players in all sorts of sports or games who claim that they lost due to inferior equipment. That is something rather common. ;)

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The only thing annoying with the bushes is that they were once sold in packs, and people who bought them at that point, have now a lot of bushes of the same type and size compared to everyone else who only gets one bush of the specific type and size. Other than that, I really see no major issues with them. Looking at playing the game to gain some rewards i.e. "Work to win" as a negative is quite dumb - you can't expect everything handed on a silver platter, you got to show some effort - the game is giving you a choice between work or money, pick one. It certainly isn't pay to win, most of the time bushes actually work against you, especially if you try to hide cupolas, I'll see your bushes moving way before I would see your cupola. 

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7 hours ago, Sethbag said:

And putting camo on tanks is something people did ever since there were tanks, when the crap got real. Look at WWII photos of tanks with way more foliage on them than we can put on a tank in WT. Go back and tell those guys how they disfigured their tanks, or how they weren't giving their enemies a "fair" chance at killing them.

 

 

I wouldn't be a disfigurement for any mode with the aim of "realistic" or "simulation" if the decorations being used were actually realistic. Or can you provide me a historical photograph where people used magnetic jerrycans all over their tank to hide weakspots or road signs, deer heads and whatever this is:

 

940_bone_83eb13b7fe5dd3c4c7062a6cd9b8b64

 

Well and regarding bushes it's pretty much the same. Those trees wouldn't stay in place for 10 meters if the tank would rush through open terrain with 40 km/h and certainly with no hope for the gunner or driver to still see anything. How could anyone come up with "people did this in reality" as a justification for something that unrealistic?

 

I wouldn't mind if Gaijin would add a feature as a crew module where you have to wait stationary as long as it takes right now to replace a crewmate in order for the camo to be put into place by the crewmembers in order to appear and which would disappear again as soon as you start to move a few meters but what we have right now is simply absurd in terms of realism and credibility.

 

 

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You play the game the way you want to. You won't shame me or probably anyone else into following suit. I like having the weeds on my tanks. I'm glad I put them on. If there were some other different weeds (like more than two of the desert scrub variety) I'd probably buy them too so I could more finely tailor the camoflage to the particular paint job.

 

As I said: Let's ask Gaijin for an option to turn decorations on other tanks invisible. You could still enjoy the look of yours or the look of other tanks if you decide to turn it on. There would be absolutely no victims due to such a feature... except those here who feel a need to defend their investment because they gain an ingame advantage out of it.

 

7 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

Warbonds and crew level both require user intervention to build up. If you don't intervene, you still have the initial crew level after 4 years of play.  If you don't intervene, you will never get anything from the warbonds store. You claim that war bonds are not aquired by ordinary gaming. Well, by that perspective, neither is crew level nor many other things. For those, you have to make choices.

 

 

I was truly hoping you wouldn't mean something that trivial to make a point. Apparently it also requires user intervention to start the game, make changes to the controls or pick a research object. If "ordinary gaming" IS NOT to you playing the game without the game dictating you too much in an event-like fashion what to do, which mode to play and simply ruling over your sparetime as it sets time frames... BUT only being in a round and not even setting skills or making other minor adjustments that require few seconds then I'd call that - apologies - borderline autistic to use semantics of that degree just in order to find a counter argument to be able to hook up. 

 

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Good point. I can't decide from looking, BUT I have heared many players in all sorts of sports or games who claim that they lost due to inferior equipment. That is something rather common. ;)

 

Any specific situation that comes to your mind or do you rather suspect those were all but excuses ;)

Edited by ColdHeat
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16 hours ago, KillaKiwi said:

You also have a choice to play OP tank and club other tanks for fun or you could choose not to do so. Doesn't change the fact that you're an xxxxxxx if you deliberately play OP tanks.

I don't play with bushes because I'm always disgusted seeing people in their OP tanks 100% covered in bushes to make it even more harder to take them out.

There will always be players who do anything to get an advantages over others and don't care for a fair fight.

Do you similarly dislike it when you are in a spaded vehicle and facing vehicles that people just got that haven't even got parts yet? Is that too much of an advantage to you, so you simply refuse to ever develop your vehicle mods?

Do you ever use the paint jobs that you have to earn by getting so many kills? Or do you just stick the default paint job, because for a given set of terrain one of the earned paint jobs might give you a bit of advantage, and some other bloke might still be using his default camo, so it wouldn't be fair?

The fact that people can earn the weeds through the war bonds shop renders every single argument you have moot. To argue against that with something like "I will not be told by the game what I should do! I want to play the game my way, and if it asks me to place in the top 5 of a winning team three times, screw that, I won't be dictated to!" just sounds like a childish whine.

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14 hours ago, aitorbk said:

 

With that argument you could say that with only what, 50.000hours you can unlock everything?  If you get paid say 16$ an hour net (and most of us make way more) that would be 800.000 dollar equivalent.  Now, most of us enjoy playing the game, but wont play that much, so it is designed to be pay2win. 

 

Load of bollocks - it doesn't take 50k hours to get bushes through warbonds - that's just argument ad absurdium.

 

Warbonds are supposed to be something thatd is NOT jsut a giveaway - so yeah, you have to work to get them, and if you can't do that work you don't get them.  Just like every game in the universe you have to spend time geting good at technique, or use better equipment - you don't see grand slam tennis players using $30 rackets.....

 

 

14 hours ago, aitorbk said:

 

While I dont agree with gaijin, I understand their logic.. 

 

Yeah - it would go - we need to get people paying money in this game somehow, else we go out of business and hte game disappears.

 

 

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On 8/2/2018 at 10:50 AM, Pat_McGherkin said:

So explain why so many people manage to get 1 vehicle, or even two, when they cost more than the bushes and require a level V shop.

 

plot twist: not every single person on the earth has actually the time to lvl up the shop to lvl 4 (or 5)

some people just log in for a couple of games at the end of the day.

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34 minutes ago, Khurt said:

 

plot twist: not every single person on the earth has actually the time to lvl up the shop to lvl 4 (or 5)

some people just log in for a couple of games at the end of the day.

 

And they get appropriate rewards for their effort. Those who put in more effort, get better rewards. Seems like a perfect mirror of life where nothing is handed to you. You are also limited to two simple tasks each day (you can re-roll them if you don't like the one you got) and those can be completed with ease, players who play more or can spend more hours on the game really have no huge advantage here. The winter quests for the tanks and planes dragged on, and I would agree with you there, that it's nonsense, but the war bonds missions are really easy to do, if you have an hour a day, you can climb to rank 5 within the allotted time, the special tasks can be annoying but achievable. 

 

But all this is basically how games of today work, spend more with the game and you get better rewards and like I said above it's a perfect mirror of real life. If you invest more time into something you will reap more rewards, might that be work, hobby, partnership etc.  

 

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2 hours ago, SaekoB said:

You are also limited to two simple tasks each day (you can re-roll them if you don't like the one you got) and those can be completed with ease, players who play more or can spend more hours on the game really have no huge advantage here.

 

Fully agree! Getting the two daily rewards takes 2-3 quick missions total. You can be absolutely minimalistic about them, just use a T1/T2 or a T1-T3 lineup.

 

3 hours ago, Khurt said:

not every single person on the earth has actually the time to lvl up the shop to lvl 4 (or 5)

some people just log in for a couple of games at the end of the day.

 

For those who only aspire to play 2-3 games a day, here is a simple plan, that will give you a bush every other month. (And just a little more efford will give you a bush every month)

 

Do the first task every day1. Within 30 days, you will have opened shop level4 (22 tasks). You will also have aquired at least 1500 WB.

If you repeat this in the second month, you will reach 3000 WB total and again open shop level 4.

 

Now about the 3 specials you also need for the bush:

In the first month, you buy one special task. If this is a task that will be completed within that month (like 8 wins) you keep it.

If you don't think you can do it, change it after you've done the daily task. The first two changes cost you 6000 SL total. As soon as you hit a task you think will work, you keep it.

You can repeat this every new day for just 6000 SL. You soon have a task that will be doable for you over the month.

When that task is done, DON'T cash that special task! Let it sit completed until the next month has started and the new shop is online. Now cash your finished special task.

One done, two to go.

In the second month, you will have to do 2 special tasks. But that is doable too. Just pick the right tasks for you. Perhaps invest a little more silver to get it quick.

By the end of the second month, you have a bush. (And a load of boosters & backups if you like)

 

If you have any questions, I will gladly explain more details of this sekrit.

 

Edit: Alternatively, do 2 tasks on 11 days. You need less days and you open the shop too. The second task is just a little harder and may require more than one mission.

 

Edited by Dodo_Dud
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7 hours ago, Sethbag said:

The fact that people can earn the weeds through the war bonds shop renders every single argument you have moot.

 

[...] To argue against that with something like "I will not be told by the game what I should do! I want to play the game my way, and if it asks me to place in the top 5 of a winning team three times, screw that, I won't be dictated to!" just sounds like a childish whine

 

We had already covered that this isn't the case.

 

Just because advantages are available to people dedicated enough (or in the more likely case willing to spend money) it doesn't make it a good idea to still implement such advantages in the first place. See the OP premium vehicles point.

Apart from the fact that Gaijin promised back then that decoration would never play the role they do now. It's time for them to live up to their word.

 

Argue against that and what would speak against a "turn them invisible" button and not some strawman argument you just made up, covered with some "all that whining, so childish" flavor to show how few confidence you actually have in your arguments.

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1 hour ago, SaekoB said:

 

And they get appropriate rewards for their effort. Those who put in more effort, get better rewards. Seems like a perfect mirror of life where nothing is handed to you. You are also limited to two simple tasks each day (you can re-roll them if you don't like the one you got) and those can be completed with ease, players who play more or can spend more hours on the game really have no huge advantage here. The winter quests for the tanks and planes dragged on, and I would agree with you there, that it's nonsense, but the war bonds missions are really easy to do, if you have an hour a day, you can climb to rank 5 within the allotted time, the special tasks can be annoying but achievable. 

 

But all this is basically how games of today work, spend more with the game and you get better rewards and like I said above it's a perfect mirror of real life. If you invest more time into something you will reap more rewards, might that be work, hobby, partnership etc.  

 

 

no one is pretending to have the same amount of rewards of a dedicated player. It's more likely about having ANY rewards at all.
This is a game, not a job, and it is supposed to be entertaining for everyone and not just to those dedicated players that can afford dedicating more time to the game and can acquire some advantage gameplay-wise.

I'm not saying I want to be able to get one or two new bush (or a premium vehicle) every month, but I'd really like to get the chance to get one after some months and not just sitting at 3600 warbonds being unable to buy anything but universal backups or boosters.

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2 hours ago, Khurt said:

 

plot twist: not every single person on the earth has actually the time to lvl up the shop to lvl 4 (or 5)

some people just log in for a couple of games at the end of the day.

 

Which is exactly what I meant with ordinary gaming. Just because you don't have that much spare time or money as others shouldn't be justification, that you're put at a severe disadvantage.

 

2 hours ago, SaekoB said:

 

And they get appropriate rewards for their effort. Those who put in more effort, get better rewards. Seems like a perfect mirror of life where nothing is handed to you.

 

 

Where do you draw the line? That the ultimate no-lifers are entitled to some OP stuff because after all they are the most dedicated? With that credo we might as well turn the E-100 into a 6.7 vehicle and watch the party on the servers. This credo isn't proper due to the fact that there is no reason in the first place to reward them this way with any unfair advantages at all.. as they don't need them.

 

It's not like we would give some nab players a little less of handicap in order to be able to catch up to experienced players but directly the opposite which is hurtful to a game as it even widens the gap between experienced/dedicated and unexperienced/not so dedicated players. Those ultra dedicated players are rewarded enough that they can get vehicles for free with warbonds and most likely have noteworthy more experience than everyone else in their battles. Where's the need for any additional pampering?

 

 

------

 

 

We can argue over 3 additional pages about how we only have to play every day a few missions but what we can hopefully agree on here is that people seem to disagree widely if they regard it acceptable or not to have to play each day for months in order to grab some rewards to let them catch up to people who already have those advantages.. and that it's questionable if those advantages aren't unnecessary in the first place.

 

What's the actual benefit for the game in the first place that these bushes exist the way they do now?

 

You think they are pretty -> Enjoy them with an option that others don't have to see them.

You think they are proper reward for your dedication -> Why do you need this advantage over others in the first place? Why not rewards that are purely cosmetic or premium?

You think Gaijin needs this money -> When there are people who can bypass any "advantage through effort" system via money it's exactly that: P2W. Which answers the question of the OP. The case would look different if they were only available through warbonds and if the people who got them at their introduction (or simply buy them) wouldn't hold that much of an advantage over those new players who need to work for half a year to catch up.

Edited by ColdHeat
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23 minutes ago, Khurt said:

I'm not saying I want to be able to get one or two new bush (or a premium vehicle) every month, but I'd really like to get the chance to get one after some months and not just sitting at 3600 warbonds being unable to buy anything but universal backups or boosters.

 

I have just given you an outline on how to do it. If you have any questions, I am glad to help you.

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28 minutes ago, ColdHeat said:

Which is exactly what I meant with ordinary gaming.

 

Seriously, if you would spend a fraction of the time that you spend complaining about warbonds on actually doing them, you probably had a premium and a bush last month. But it is entirely your choice.

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On 11.2.2018 at 1:22 PM, Dodo_Dud said:

 

Seriously, if you would spend a fraction of the time that you spend complaining about warbonds on actually doing them, you probably had a premium and a bush last month. But it is entirely your choice.

 

I'm not complaining about warbonds but protesting against unfair advantages in order for Gaijin to make money. Neither do I have any problem with not owning any bushes and not using my aquired decorations to hide the weakspots of my tanks. I have 15k of GE right now to get those bushes anytime if I wanted to but I simply don't need nor want to use any advantages or methods I deem dirty and not belonging into the Realistic and Simulator Mode on top of it.

 

What is so hard to grasp about the concept that there are actually people out there not arguing primarily for their own good?

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1 hour ago, ColdHeat said:

unfair

 

I still wait for your clear-cut definition of fair. And instead of writing more, I dedicate my next 10 minutes to making 150 WB.

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On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 5:11 AM, ColdHeat said:

 

 

 

No, more like: "I am too lazy/stupid to properly read and comprehend a post in order to understand the point of a debate". Seriously can we stop with those cheap strawman arguments and insults?

 

It's not about lazyness or even stupidity regarding warbonds. These are just mock arguments by those who want to keep the advantages they get through this system. Fact is that with such a system (grind or money) there will always be a majority who don't want to be a part of it. And since it's a F2P game rightfully so. So you will always be selling ingame advantages and "force" others to partake if they don't want to give up on those advantages.

 

If you really think that bushes and decorations don't offer a noticeable advantage then just agree to a petition towards Gaijin to implement a switch in the options where you can turn them off on other vehicles while still being able to enjoy the "visuals" on your own.

This! why cant I turn off the garbage they throw on their tank? just like some of the crazy paint jobs in WoT? oh right... because its P2W.... and god forbid that someone paid for an advantage that someone can just turn off....

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