Deadelder

Bushes on tanks PTW

Yes, this started as a rant or whine with no objective points made, which means , yes, it should have been closed. 

 

But since so many members have already posted,

the posts are staying on point and not breaking the rules,

and it has generated a lively discussion in spite of the OP tone,  I am inclined to allow it to remain open for now.  However, if it descends into insult and flame it will have to be locked just so everyone is clear.

 

It has been a most interesting conversation and I have seen points made from both camps that have got me to thinking( Anyone who knows me realizes just hard that can be).  

Though it is not really necessary so far, a gentle reminder that the OP topic is:

Bushes are PTW because they give an unfair advantage to those that cannot procure them.

 

As a courtesy to the OP and your fellow members please stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.

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Though I'm not made of money, I don't mind putting some into the game from time to time (my wife does mind, however), and I think at full price it maybe costs like $20 or $25 for all the weeds. 

I didn't do it for the longest time because I thought you had to pay for the weeds for each tank. You don't, of course. Once you buy them you can put them on all of your vehicles. So I eventually bought them.

I consider it money well spent. And yes, it can look ridiculous, depending on how one does it. I try to use the weeds to break up the outline, and I tend to concentrate on the view while looking at my tank from the front. If I'm hiding somewhere, if I can break up the outline of the tank/turret so it doesn't look like a tank-shaped object, I think it helps peoples' eyes pass over me sometimes without seeing me. 

My one complaint is that there are only two pieces of the desert weed, a long strip and one small clump. If they had another piece or two of desert weed I'd probably buy them for my desert camo patterns. With all the bushes in Sinai, for instance, I think having some desert weeds on my turret may help me escape detection sometimes. Not all the time, but if someone fails to see me some fraction of the time that's very helpful.

Anyhow, I know some people are financially strapped and simply cannot afford $20 they can spend on this game once and use for the rest of the time they ever place the game, which could be years. There are others who are philosophically opposed to spending money in the game and simply refuse ever to do it, and then brag about how they spaded every vehicle in every nation and have 100million silver lions saved up and never bought premium, and it only took them playing this game like a full-time job for four years. More power to them. I bought the weeds. I pay for premium. I figure I save enough money by spending my time in this game that I'd otherwise be out doing other things that cost money, so it's a bit of a wash. We all have choices, and we all make choices, and if people simply refuse to buy (or work for) some weeds to put on their vehicles, that's a choice they make. I don't play AB very often, but when I do I probably look ridiculous, since I spawn in next to these garishly decorated tanks with bright decals and whatnot on them, and I come in with my camo patterns and strategically placed weeds that don't do me any good because some guy on a hill 1.5k off sees me by mousing over my red target frame until he gets an outline and then fires. Oh well. For RB I think they help, and I think it's money well spent.

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1 hour ago, Sethbag said:

 I don't play AB very often, but when I do I probably look ridiculous, since I spawn in next to these garishly decorated tanks with bright decals and whatnot on them, and I come in with my camo patterns and strategically placed weeds that don't do me any good because some guy on a hill 1.5k off sees me by mousing over my red target frame until he gets an outline and then fires. Oh well. For RB I think they help, and I think it's money well spent.


Some very good points regarding camo bushes and way you get them! As I play almost AB only, I can assure you - camo decorations actually work very well there too. As I am playing it rather aggressive and mostly I look for close combat, those funny looking weeds usually give me the split of the second (while enemy is trying to figure out my outline and specific weakspots) to make that kill shot. And as you said - it also disrupts the full outline of the tank. Yes, useless in far distances.  

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10 minutes ago, D4nger_CLO5E said:

:lol2: bushes on tanks are OP lol....turns on ULQ, what's that bush doing in the middle of nowhere.

Well that's actually true. Many times i was driving on urban map and went "What the actuall bush is that rolling heap of bushes doing there" :DD

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42 minutes ago, eNVee1 said:


Some very good points regarding camo bushes and way you get them! As I play almost AB only, I can assure you - camo decorations actually work very well there too. As I am playing it rather aggressive and mostly I look for close combat, those funny looking weeds usually give me the split of the second (while enemy is trying to figure out my outline and specific weakspots) to make that kill shot. And as you said - it also disrupts the full outline of the tank. Yes, useless in far distances.  

I played AB only when I first started, and then eventually I tried RB and, after getting my butt handed to me for a while, I caught on and that's pretty much all I play now, though I've tried sim several times now too. I guess everyone likes what they like, but for me it's hard to go back to AB. Lately I've played a few AB matches for mainly one reason. That is that I'm focused on getting my war bonds, and I'll compare the AB and RB tasks and if the AB task looks trivially easy sometimes I'll go AB, knock out the task, and then go back to RB.

I find it hard to play AB. Have you ever heard the aphorism: "You should never argue with a fool. He'll just drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience." That's what AB feels like to me now. I go in there playing it like RB, and just get my butt handed to me a lot by guys who've been doing AB forever and know all the nooks and crannies they can get behind, mouse over your red frame that is there because someone on their team is within spotting range, and then fire at you once they have the crosshair over your outline. It's just so different. I'll be trying to sneak around, be places someone wouldn't expect, etc. and all the while I'm lit up like a Christmas tree to the other side. As I've started to learn and understand how things like spotting distance work, I've tried to pay attention to how close I am to enemies, and see if I can places to be where nobody on the other side should be able to light me up. I've had some, albeit limited, success trying to play that way, and on some maps it's a lot harder than others. I did have a particularly good AB match this one time in Hurtgen Forest where some dweeb was set up on the hill sniping into town. I got in my BMP and took a long and circuitous route around the backside of that hill, staying in defilade, under trees, etc. and out of spotting range of any enemies. I finally saw the guy a few hundred meters away and put an ATGM in the side of his turret. I then killed his buddy who tried to get up there too. Of course that light me up with a red frame and someone promptly came over and nailed me. But it was a great feeling to stalk a guy in AB and take him out with a horribly vulnerable vehicle.

Weeds, camo, movement discipline, staying in any available defilade while traveling, hiding under trees, behind bushes, etc. are all part of the game in RB. The weeds and camo paint really come in handy here. From what I can tell in AB it's all about finding the most protected sniping spot and just going to town. It's also harder for me to nail people with an ATGM in AB because everyone can move so damn fast, back up nearly instantly, etc.

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6 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

Well that's actually true. Many times i was driving on urban map and went "What the actuall bush is that rolling heap of bushes doing there" :DD

Yeah, obviously while moving the bushes are of limited usefulness. They aren't utterly useless there too, though. I like to put a large clump of weeds right behind my turret and the long strips down the sides of the turret obscuring the outline of the top of the turret, if I can. In this way it can make it hard to spot, quickly, how far back the turret extends, and someone might shoot through the weeds instead of the turret because they just saw something there but couldn't tell what was behind it. This can also help with masking how far out to the sides the turret extends, and if someone is trying to shoot the turret cheeks, but can't see the corners of the turret, they might shoot too far out from the mantlet and miss or ricochet off the sides instead.

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4 hours ago, sgtlongbow said:

Just buy them and be happy. ;)

 

I don't think you can buy them like that anymore. You can buy what warbonds offer - which is much less.

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15 hours ago, Estorm732 said:

The biggest problem with bushes through Warbonds is that you can end up unboxing a lousy 100.000 SL. 

Not being a guaranteed unlock shoves it to the side of P2W to be honest. 

 

I haven't ever gotten the 100k SL, and I now have all the bushes - I got half of them before the change, but 5 or 6 since..... AFAIK you only ever get the 100k if you have all the bushes already.

 

Mismatches are not a problem - IMO it's better to have a divers colour camo than a sing;le color - that's why camo's are often NOT 1 color!

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10 hours ago, D4nger_CLO5E said:

:lol2: bushes on tanks are OP lol....turns on ULQ, what's that bush doing in the middle of nowhere.

the heck is ULQ?

 

but its been said earlier, in RB and in any map with any grass/trees that tank is invisible with all the bushes. they should obstruct the aiming sights just like a normal bush really. too many times I'm in my 6.7 and I'm fighting a Leo with so many bushes on the front that there's no way to tell its a leo until the kill cam...

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1 hour ago, Deadelder said:

if the shop was a simple "Keep playing and it will fill" sort of thing then yeah everyone should be able to get bushes for free eventually... but it isn't.. so PTW

 

If crew level was a simple "keep playing and it will grow" sort of thing, then yeah everyone should be able to get crew level for free eventually... but it isn't... so P2W.

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2 hours ago, Deadelder said:

if the shop was a simple "Keep playing and it will fill" sort of thing then yeah everyone should be able to get bushes for free eventually... but it isn't.. so PTW

You have to do well too. There is that. They don't just hand that stuff out on a silver platter. I feel ya though on the daily tasks. I'm not sure why they reset your warbond shop level each month. I'm currently saving up for the crab decal. I'll put it on the IS-6, where it belongs. I'm warbond shop level 3.5 right now, and will be at 4 in a day or so, and then it's just a matter of saving up the warbonds.

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3 hours ago, Deadelder said:

if the shop was a simple "Keep playing and it will fill" sort of thing then yeah everyone should be able to get bushes for free eventually... but it isn't.. so PTW

 

Everyone can get bushes.....  eventually (your word!) - play long enough, get high enough rank and vehicles - get the bushes.

 

It's not supposed to be a give-away for beginners!

 

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13 hours ago, Deadelder said:

the heck is ULQ?

 

but its been said earlier, in RB and in any map with any grass/trees that tank is invisible with all the bushes. they should obstruct the aiming sights just like a normal bush really. too many times I'm in my 6.7 and I'm fighting a Leo with so many bushes on the front that there's no way to tell its a leo until the kill cam...

Ultra Low Quality!! Basically it gets rid of 80 to 90% of bushes and trees.

 

Bushes do cover sights in game, in RB the gun sight is in the gun barrel so it does not block, all my tanks with bushes are setup to play in SIM so you can see through the sight without the bushes blocking your view because in SIM the gun sight is in the place it's modeled on the tank, you just have to position them not to block the sight.

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10 hours ago, Josephs_Piano said:

 

Everyone can get bushes.....  eventually (your word!) - play long enough, get high enough rank and vehicles - get the bushes.

 

It's not supposed to be a give-away for beginners!

 

its not possible to get them playing only Sim.

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On 08/02/2018 at 4:40 PM, Vengeful_Tuna said:

On a side note you don't need bushes to win. A good camo pattern while hiding amongst foliage(terrain) will work perfectly. I know because I've had enemy tanks park right next to me in the same bush and this happens on a regular basis.

 

Ok, 2 questions for you;  Which camo?....and where's the bush?

 

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46 minutes ago, D4nger_CLO5E said:

Ultra Low Quality!! Basically it gets rid of 80 to 90% of bushes and trees.

 

Bushes do cover sights in game, in RB the gun sight is in the gun barrel so it does not block, all my tanks with bushes are setup to play in SIM so you can see through the sight without the bushes blocking your view because in SIM the gun sight is in the place it's modeled on the tank, you just have to position them not to block the sight.

Yeah no doubt. Being mainly an RB player, my weeds often need to be moved around if I try them out in simulator. The first time I upped a tank in a SB match without knowing about this I couldn't see a thing!

When my comrades and I decide to do a simulator match we'll decide what vehicles we want to use from the available list, and then go into the test range with the mission type set to simulator, and check out the commander and gunner positions, and then move the weeds around until we can see things just fine. I then just leave them set up this way for RB too. So some of my weed setups right now work fine for RB and SB, but some wouldn't work in SB, simply because I haven't yet gone through the process yet of figuring out where the sights are, and what weed configuration will work for SB on those particular tanks yet.

You want to know what's even more depressing about ULQ? In Sinai you know those dust storms that drastically limit how far you can see? Apparently in ULQ there's no dust storm at all. So in Sinai when it's windy and all that dust is radically limiting your vision, just remember that players on the other side running ULQ will see you long before you can see them. This is the exact opposite of "pay to win." It's "dumb your machine down to prehistoric levels to win."

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16 hours ago, Deadelder said:

in any map with any grass/trees that tank is invisible 

Omg, that's so wrong.. but wait! Isn't camo and masking meant to do exactly that? o_o
 

16 hours ago, Deadelder said:

if the shop was a simple "Keep playing and it will fill" sort of thing then yeah everyone should be able to get bushes for free eventually... but it isn't.. so PTW

Depends how good you are. And if you put some thinking into it you will find a way around it. If the task is too hard or not appropriate for your lineup, just change it. You can also match daily tasks with special tasks, so that progress goes faster. No wish to do it? Pay 500 GE. Don't want to pay and get good? Well, then stop crying.  

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Apart from broken BRs and compression, bushes on tanks is my biggest complain in WT.

It's almost like in the game Hawken where you could pay to change your mech to look like the mech of a different class.

It was really breaking immersion and also gave player an initial advantage and bushes are just like that.

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