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Is it possible to shoot down planes/bombers with PTRD?


Ok, I know this is quite a myth or something in my mind, but I need to know about the bomber they mentioned at their propaganda. Does the bomber they meant was a medium/heavy, or a dive bomber? From my assumption, it should be a Ju 87 dive bomber although I'm still questioned how the soviet infantry could shoot down them with infantry. Are they began to shoot when the stuka going in bombing position, or they start to shoot the stuka after bombing to avoid being shot with their MG 15?

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The PTRD is one hell of an unwieldy rifle and is strictly single shot, not to mention its caliber is not sufficient enough for the guaranteed crippling of a plane (20mm is the minimum requirement due to explosives). You're better off finding cover in pretty much all cases.

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10 minutes ago, Nope said:

The PTRD is one hell of an unwieldy rifle and is strictly single shot, not to mention its caliber is not sufficient enough for the guaranteed crippling of a plane (20mm is the minimum requirement due to explosives). You're better off finding cover in pretty much all cases.

That statement about 20mm isn't too accurate, a .303 can cripple a plane if it can get the cooling system or pilot and the PTRD is a 14.5mm with a 1000m/s muzzle velocity and can penetrate around 30mm so if it hits it's nothing to laugh off, it could easily take out an engine or control surface, just need a good marksman that can lead a target if it's low and slow enough

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2 hours ago, *gaelan said:

That statement about 20mm isn't too accurate, a .303 can cripple a plane if it can get the cooling system or pilot and the PTRD is a 14.5mm with a 1000m/s muzzle velocity and can penetrate around 30mm so if it hits it's nothing to laugh off, it could easily take out an engine or control surface, just need a good marksman that can lead a target if it's low and slow enough

 

The keyword is "if" in your post and "guaranteed" in mine. A 20mm HE round has much more coverage upon impact thanks to the explosion tearing large chunks of the airframe off, to the point where on average it doesn't usually take more than 5 shells to take out a single engine aircraft. Going by AAA and fighter armament trends, one needs to bunch up smaller caliber weapons to have a reasonable amount of reliability when taking out enemy aircraft, with the Americans finding 6 .50 cals being the sweet spot and the British having to stack as many as 8 .303 MGs to have a reasonable punch in the early days of BoB before toying around with more .303s and 20mm cannons, not to mention .50 cals (though to be fair this might have something to do with external ballistics). Even then all these weapons were fully automatic due to hit chances and insufficient damage to the airframe due to redundancies in the latter's design.

 

With that in mind and considering the unwieldiness of a PTRD for hitting such a fast target, one would have to be really lucky to actually shoot down an aircraft with a PTRD even through forced bail out. Stuff like Baggett's aircraft kill with an M1911 do happen, but these instances are so few in number that it's a dumb idea to replicate these.

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1 hour ago, Nope said:

 

The keyword is "if" in your post and "guaranteed" in mine. A 20mm HE round has much more coverage upon impact thanks to the explosion tearing large chunks of the airframe off, to the point where on average it doesn't usually take more than 5 shells to take out a single engine aircraft. Going by AAA and fighter armament trends, one needs to bunch up smaller caliber weapons to have a reasonable amount of reliability when taking out enemy aircraft, with the Americans finding 6 .50 cals being the sweet spot and the British having to stack as many as 8 .303 MGs to have a reasonable punch in the early days of BoB before toying around with more .303s and 20mm cannons, not to mention .50 cals (though to be fair this might have something to do with external ballistics). Even then all these weapons were fully automatic due to hit chances and insufficient damage to the airframe due to redundancies in the latter's design.

 

With that in mind and considering the unwieldiness of a PTRD for hitting such a fast target, one would have to be really lucky to actually shoot down an aircraft with a PTRD even through forced bail out. Stuff like Baggett's aircraft kill with an M1911 do happen, but these instances are so few in number that it's a dumb idea to replicate these.

Still possible which is the question, in what way is it a dumb way to replicate, according to Otto Carius they took down an IL with their 88 which is a lower velocity, scoring a hit on a Stuka isn't that crazy especially if it's on a run in your direction, that engines a nice big target too

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One of the most popular methods was using a wheel (usually from a cart) and mounting the rifle on it, turning it into a makeshift anti-aircraft turret. It did see some success too:

Quote

Fyodor Andreyevich Modzhenok from Primorye, Far East. Excellent shooter - on the 7th, he shot down a Junkers.

"They climbed into the air one after another. We fired, but did not hit. One of them was sideways onto me. I fired - and hit him. A bullseye on the twenty-first bullet. And then he tumbled down from three hundred meters!"

This was reported in July 1943, in the Kursk salient near the village of Ponyri.

Modzhonok participated in repulsing the offensive of the Hitlerites in a PTR company of the 75th Guards Rifle Division. His partner was Vladimir Semenkov. To fire at the enemy bombers, they decided to adapt a simple wheel (from many of the destroyed wagons nearby), mounting it on a hub for it to spin and placing the rifle between the wheel's spokes. [...]

Modzhonok talked about one of the chapters of the battle to our military correspondent - Konstantin Simonov. On the front, not many soldiers were lucky enough to have shot down an enemy aircraft with a PTR. And Guardsman Fyodor Modzhenok was one of the 'lucky' ones to have done so - with the 21st shot.

For his feat, Fyodor received the Order of the Patriotic War, 2nd Class, and his partner - Vladimir Semenkov - the Order of Military Merit.

31-3577786-ogon-po-vozdushnoj-tseli-iz-p1.jpegpvo-1.jpg

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15 hours ago, Nope said:

 

The keyword is "if" in your post and "guaranteed" in mine. A 20mm HE round has much more coverage upon impact thanks to the explosion tearing large chunks of the airframe off, to the point where on average it doesn't usually take more than 5 shells to take out a single engine aircraft. Going by AAA and fighter armament trends, one needs to bunch up smaller caliber weapons to have a reasonable amount of reliability when taking out enemy aircraft, with the Americans finding 6 .50 cals being the sweet spot and the British having to stack as many as 8 .303 MGs to have a reasonable punch in the early days of BoB before toying around with more .303s and 20mm cannons, not to mention .50 cals (though to be fair this might have something to do with external ballistics). Even then all these weapons were fully automatic due to hit chances and insufficient damage to the airframe due to redundancies in the latter's design.

 

With that in mind and considering the unwieldiness of a PTRD for hitting such a fast target, one would have to be really lucky to actually shoot down an aircraft with a PTRD even through forced bail out. Stuff like Baggett's aircraft kill with an M1911 do happen, but these instances are so few in number that it's a dumb idea to replicate these.

Lucky shots :-)

You need to be willing to expose yourself during 10000+ unluky shots, to score one of those. Its a "rng" game: chance to get killed vs the small chance to get a hit and even smaller chance to get a kill.

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  • 2 weeks later...

if Pierre Sprey sayz its possible to shoot down an F15 with a .22 cal then yes its likely the ptrd has a fair bit higher chance to hit a slower prop driven aircraft, with a weapon shooting  more powerful  , much higher velocity ammunition. :016:

Edited by kev2go
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9 hours ago, kev2go said:

if Pierre Sprey sayz its possible to shoot down an F15 with a .22 cal then yes its likely the ptrd has a fair bit higher chance to hit a slower prop driven aircraft, with a weapon shooting  more powerful  , much higher velocity ammunition.

It is proven that its possible to take down a A6M with a revolver...

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2 hours ago, builder396 said:

It is proven that its possible to take down a A6M with a revolver...

 

since when is the amazing m1911 semi-automatic single action pistol a revolver

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On 06/02/2018 at 9:07 AM, builder396 said:

It is proven that its possible to take down a A6M with a revolver...

 

I was being sarcastic. Sprey doesn't have much credibility. 

 

 

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On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 11:06 AM, *gaelan said:

That statement about 20mm isn't too accurate, a .303 can cripple a plane if it can get the cooling system or pilot and the PTRD is a 14.5mm with a 1000m/s muzzle velocity and can penetrate around 30mm so if it hits it's nothing to laugh off, it could easily take out an engine or control surface, just need a good marksman that can lead a target if it's low and slow enough

I nearly miss read the "1,000m/s" as 10,000m/s LOL

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53 minutes ago, kev2go said:

 

I was being sarcastic. Sprey doesn't have much credibility.

 

he does

 

f15 totally sux

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