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1 minute ago, warrior412 said:

You haven’t looked at it if you’re claiming what you have.

I have looked and I have provided evidence backing up what I have said. 

1 minute ago, warrior412 said:

Utter nonsense. 3000 SP is barely attainable before a battle ends—there isn’t much left to be done by that point anyway.

 

You’re just advocating against fairness for aircraft by demanding these (already) ridiculous costs be raised.

Do You know that atomic bomb just ends battles when it hits the ground do You? It is not about aircrafts anymore but rather about system that allows players to just win the whole battle despite what other players did in it. 

2 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Ask Gaijin.

:facepalm:

2 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Not likely—especially with the Soviets’ “atomic” tanks.

Do You know how atomic bomb works in WT or You are just making this up at this point? Atomic bomb in WT just ends battle, does nothing else. It doesn't even give kills or extra points for players who have used it

 

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Just now, ULQ_LOVER said:

Do You know that atomic bomb just ends battles when it hits the ground do You? It is not about aircrafts anymore but rather about system that allows players to just win the whole battle despite what other players did in it. 


If a guy gets 3000 SP he probably did win the battle.

 

1 minute ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Do You know how atomic bomb works in WT or You are just making this up at this point? Atomic bomb in WT just ends battle, does nothing else. It doesn't even give kills or extra points for players who have used it


I understand it, as do others.

 

(That effect is another reason why this mechanic is unremarkable—giving the winner’s side the win is not a big deal.)

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Just now, warrior412 said:

If a guy gets 3000 SP he probably did win the battle.

Probably is a big word

Just now, warrior412 said:

I understand it, as do others.

 

(That effect is another reason why this mechanic is unremarkable—giving the winner’s side the win is not a big deal.)

You know that many people will find a way to earn 3k SP points in a fast time just in order to use a nuke despite if their team is winning or not? By making the requirements lower, You would have nuke every battle that would just delete all of Your effort in battle as You could still do something if You were alive or had an ability to spawn after death.

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13 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Probably is a big word


Not really. Even getting 12 kills is nowhere near that much SP.

 

13 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

You know that many people will find a way to earn 3k SP points in a fast time just in order to use a nuke despite if their team is winning or not? By making the requirements lower, You would have nuke every battle that would just delete all of Your effort in battle as You could still do something if You were alive or had an ability to spawn after death.


That’s your theory, but there is no proof to it.

 

The bombers are subject to interception and defeat also.

Edited by warrior412
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6 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Not really. Even getting 12 kills is nowhere near that much SP.

You know that they are ways to earn SP faster than normal?

6 hours ago, warrior412 said:

That’s your theory, but there is no proof to it.

 

The bombers are subject to interception and defeat also.

I'm telling what can happen and what probably is going to happen. 

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14 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

You know that they are ways to earn SP faster than normal?


SP earnings aren't really a concern, both because:

 

-SP earnings are earned

-3000 SP is so much that matches will likely be over before anyone can amass that much

 

Reading through the discussion thread, numerous people have already pointed these things out. People who understand this mechanic are not concerned about its addition.

 

14 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

I'm telling what can happen and what probably is going to happen.

 

Yeah...like I said, that’s your theory and it has no backing. You are just speculating and that’s fine...but it’s not gospel.


With the massive SP hurdle, the alarms and the potential for the bombers to be intercepted/shot down by SPAAs, there isn’t much to actually worry about.


Remember:

 

6 hours ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Probably is a big word


 

Edited by warrior412
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3 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

SP earnings aren't really a concern, both because:

 

-SP earnings are earned

-3000 SP is so much that matches will likely be over before anyone canamass that much

 

Reading through the discussion thread, numerous people have already pointed these things out. People who understand this mechanic are not concerned about its addition.

Please give us citations

3 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Yeah...like I said, that’s your theory and it has no backing. You are just speculating and that’s fine...but it’s not gospel.


With the massive SP hurdle, the alarms and the potential for the bombers to be intercepted/shot down by SPAAs, there isn’t much to actually worry about.


Remember:

Yes, probably is a big word and I'm not saying that what I have said is 100% true. But then, giving people a tool to end the battle for less than 3000 SP points is stupid and would destroy RB GFs even further. 

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23 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Please give us citations


Spawn points are earnings you gain by actions through out the match...that’s pretty basic.

 

As for how much 3000 SP is...well, I had a match a few days back where I went 7-0 with my T-54. By matches end, I had ~1300 SP. Subtracting the cost of the T-54 (150 SP), that means each kill was worth ~160 SP.

 

Terms:
Goal: 3000 SP

Units: Spawn points

FS = first spawn vehicle (cost)

K = number of kills

E = any non-kill earnings (caps, bounces, arty, etc.)

SSC = subsequent spawn costs (any costs beside the first spawn vehicle)

 

(450 - FS) + 160K + E - SSC -> 3000 SP

 

Doing the math:

 

-a person would need at least 17 kills with only their first spawn medium tank to get the 3000 SP just by going 17-0 with kills

 

-If the player incurred any costs beyond their first spawn, they would need more than 17 kills to have any chance to gather 3000 SP

 

Even if you covered a few kills’ earnings by trading them for caps instead, this mechanic is still extraordinarily costly. When you do the math, the reason why most people are not concerned becomes obvious: this isn’t going to be common.

 

23 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Yes, probably is a big word and I'm not saying that what I have said is 100% true. But then, giving people a tool to end the battle for less than 3000 SP points is stupid and would destroy RB GFs even further. 


3000 SP is the hurdle, not anything less.

 

Considering all that this mechanic does is trigger a win, there isn’t actually much on the line. It isn’t going to be insta-killing the whole enemy team.

 

The doom and gloom talk that it’ll be something that’ll “destroy” the mode is just hype based on misunderstanding.

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8 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Spawn points are earnings you gain by actions through out the match...that’s pretty basic.

 

As for how much 3000 SP is...well, I had a match a few days back where I went 7-0 with my T-54. By matches end, I had ~1300 SP. Subtracting the cost of the T-54 (150 SP), that means each kill was worth ~160 SP.

 

Terms:
Goal: 3000 SP

Units: Spawn points

FS = first spawn vehicle (cost)

K = number of kills

E = any non-kill earnings (caps, bounces, arty, etc.)

SSC = subsequent spawn costs (any costs beside the first spawn vehicle)

 

(450 - FS) + 160K + E - SSC -> 3000 SP

 

Doing the math:

 

-a person would need at least 17 kills with only their first spawn medium tank to get the 3000 SP just by going 17-0 with kills

 

-If the player incurred any costs beyond their first spawn, they would need more than 17 kills to have any chance to gather 3000 SP

 

Even if you covered a few kills’ earnings by trading them for caps instead, this mechanic is still extraordinarily costly. When you do the math, the reason why most people are not concerned becomes obvious: this isn’t going to be common.

Have You taken into consideration that planes earn more SP and You can make them cost less by playing scout vechicle? 

8 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

3000 SP is the hurdle, not anything less.

 

Considering all that this mechanic does is trigger a win, there isn’t actually much on the line. It isn’t going to be insta-killing the whole enemy team.

 

The doom and gloom talk that it’ll be something that’ll “destroy” the mode is just hype based on misunderstanding.

It is going to add mechanic that ends battle in instant and I don't really know if this mechanic should be taken into consideration when it comes to TO or air units because it is not an exact air mechanic but a killstreak mechanic. 

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3 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Have You taken into consideration that planes earn more SP and You can make them cost less by playing scout vechicle? 


I did.
 

As I said, using anything beyond the first spawn vehicle would incur costs that would raise the number of kills/amount of earnings needed to acquire 3000 SP.

 

As the most expensive type of vehicle, aircraft would interfere with the gathering more than any second GFs spawn would.


 

6 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

It is going to add mechanic that ends battle in instant and I don't really know if this mechanic should be taken into consideration when it comes to TO or air units because it is not an exact air mechanic but a killstreak mechanic.


Integrating nuclear weapons, if only indirectly as this is, signals a continuing move toward more combined arms integration rather than TO.

 

Small tactical nuclear weapons carried by player selected aircraft may now be on the table—it wouldn’t be surprising with this push and the move towards modern times.

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Just now, warrior412 said:

I did.
 

As I said, using anything beyond the first spawn vehicle would incur costs that would raise the number of kills/amount of earnings needed to acquire 3000 SP.

 

As the most expensive type of vehicle, aircraft would interfere with the gathering more than any second GFs spawn would.

But spawning aircraft may give You an advantage by earning spawn points faster. It is easier to find enemis when You are flying :good:

1 minute ago, warrior412 said:

Integrating nuclear weapons, if only indirectly as this is, signals a continuing move toward more combined arms integration rather than TO.

 

Small tactical nuclear weapons carried by player selected aircraft may now be on the table—it wouldn’t be surprising with this push and the move towards modern times.

There is no point in adding "small nukes" as on maps we have already they would work as it works now or it would be the same as taking a normal bomb :dntknw:

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Just now, ULQ_LOVER said:

But spawning aircraft may give You an advantage by earning spawn points faster. It is easier to find enemis when You are flying :good:


Eh, not quite.
 

Aircraft are limited and let down by their high costs and limited staying power.
Tanks can kill tanks more readily than aircraft can.

 

As they're first spawns, at lower costs and more cost-effective, tanks remain more likely to do the heavy lifting for SP earning like this.

 

1 minute ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

There is no point in adding "small nukes" as on maps we have already they would work as it works now or it would be the same as taking a normal bomb :dntknw:


It’s just something that may be on Gaijin’s agenda.

 

Their effect would be bigger than existing bombs too.

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Just now, warrior412 said:

Eh, not quite.
 

Aircraft are limited and let down by their high costs and limited staying power.
Tanks can kill tanks more readily than aircraft can.

 

As they're first spawns, at lower costs and more cost-effective, tanks remain more likely to do the heavy lifting for SP earning like this.

Eh, yes.

 

Planes earn more and have ability to find enemy faster. 

 

It is very likely that people will earn 3k points faster by using planes rather than using ground units. As You have mentioned, by tank You need to do 17 kills which mostly indicate the end of the battle itself before Your arrival with the nuke. By doing it with a plane, the game would be mostly still going on :good:

4 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

It’s just something that may be on Gaijin’s agenda.

 

Their effect would be bigger than existing bombs too.

Their effect wouldn't change a thing and by looking at how majority of players reacted to the nuke, I don't think they will add something like that :good:

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3 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Eh, yes.

 

Planes earn more and have ability to find enemy faster. 


Incorrect.

 

Aircraft would burden a person pursuing 3000 SP with massive costs (SP for their first spawn and the aircraft) as well as limiting their earning afterward thanks to the lesser staying power of aircraft as compared to tanks (aircraft must return to base for reloads while most tanks have surpluses of ammo in fighting). Aircraft have no appreciable advantage as SP earners.

 

5 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

As You have mentioned, by tank You need to do 17 kills which mostly indicate the end of the battle itself before Your arrival with the nuke. By doing it with a plane, the game would be mostly still going on :good:


Not really. If one guy has 17 kills or more, regardless of what he used, chances are the match is nearly over—to one side or the other.

 

This is why most people have no issue with this mechanic—it’s nearly immaterial.

 

7 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Their effect wouldn't change a thing and by looking at how majority of players reacted to the nuke, I don't think they will add something like that 


That’s your theory—though saying that tactical nukes “wouldn’t change a thing” isn’t really a good counterargument to use against adding them.

 

If it’d be the same to have them, it may well be worth it for historical loadouts then.

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Just now, warrior412 said:

Incorrect.

 

Aircraft would burden a person pursuing 3000 SP with massive costs (SP for their first spawn and the aircraft) as well as limiting their earning afterward thanks to the lesser staying power of aircraft as compared to tanks (aircraft must return to base for reloads while most tanks have surpluses of ammo in fighting). Aircraft have no appreciable advantage as SP earners.

I will test it out and give you the results, but I'm 100% sure it will be easier to get 3k points with aircrafts rather than with tanks :good:

2 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Not really. If one guy has 17 kills or more, regardless of what he used, chances are the match is nearly over—to one side or the other.

 

This is why most people have no issue with this mechanic—it’s nearly immaterial.

By using plane You don't need to  get as many kills :good:

3 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

That’s your theory—though saying that tactical nukes “wouldn’t change a thing” isn’t really a good counterargument to use against adding them.

 

If it’d be the same to have them, it may well be worth it for historical loadouts then.

That is not my theory, that is just a fact how things are at this point :good:

The best counterargument is that server would die after 4 people would drop the nuke at the same time :lol2:

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Just now, ULQ_LOVER said:

I will test it out and give you the results, but I'm 100% sure it will be easier to get 3k points with aircrafts rather than with tanks :good:


Considering the burden of the cost disparity that aircraft endure, that wouldn’t be an issue even if it were true (which remains doubtful).

 

2 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

By using plane You don't need to  get as many kills 


That’s doubtful based on the math of earnings versus costs.

 

3 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

That is not my theory, that is just a fact how things are at this point :good:

The best counterargument is that server would die after 4 people would drop the nuke at the same time :lol2:


Sounds unlikely.

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Just now, warrior412 said:

Considering the burden of the cost disparity that aircraft endure, that wouldn’t be an issue even if it were true (which remains doubtful).

Again, using light tank would make that burden a lot smaller 

Just now, warrior412 said:

That’s doubtful based on the math of earnings versus costs.

Do You know how many more SP you get by killing something with a plane?

3 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Sounds unlikely.

So it would be like bombs in order not to destroy the servers or have the same thing (ending the battle at the moment of the drop).

Another thing would be that after killing 2 teammates games kicks You off the battle, by using a small tactical nuke on small maps like rhein I'm sure that You would get banned at instant :016:

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I don't think we necessarily need a Ground only mode, but we should get the ability to drive to spawn, J-out of the vehicle and spawn another, in accordance with the situation in the field and be able to spawn it later again...switching vehicles, as long as they've not been destroyed, should be a thing.

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2 minutes ago, C0lander said:

I don't think we necessarily need a Ground only mode, but we should get the ability to drive to spawn, J-out of the vehicle and spawn another, in accordance with the situation in the field and be able to spawn it later again...switching vehicles, as long as they've not been destroyed, should be a thing.

That would solve like 99% of problems :good:

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3 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Again, using light tank would make that burden a lot smaller 


...if one’s cooperated and triggered the airstrike mechanic.


However: if one side has such a poor team that one player has the opportunity to literally wipe out the entire enemy team, that player’s own team is probably just a burden to him.

 

5 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Do You know how many more SP you get by killing something with a plane?


I haven’t checked recently (it generally doesn’t matter)—I doubt it’s much different from GFs’ rate.

 

What is it?

 

6 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

So it would be like bombs in order not to destroy the servers or have the same thing (ending the battle at the moment of the drop).

Another thing would be that after killing 2 teammates games kicks You off the battle, by using a small tactical nuke on small maps like rhein I'm sure that You would get banned at instant :016:


They may disable FF or allow that effect for balancing.

5 minutes ago, C0lander said:

I don't think we necessarily need a Ground only mode, but we should get the ability to drive to spawn, J-out of the vehicle and spawn another, in accordance with the situation in the field and be able to spawn it later again...switching vehicles, as long as they've not been destroyed, should be a thing.


Despawns should be at caps.

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1 minute ago, warrior412 said:

...if one’s cooperated and triggered the airstrike mechanic.


However: if one side has such a poor team that one player has the opportunity to literally wipe out the entire enemy team, that player’s own team is probably just a burden to him.

That doesn't have to be the problem of the team by MM :good:

4 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

I haven’t checked recently (it generally doesn’t matter)—I doubt it’s much different from GFs’ rate.

 

What is it?

I asked You about it. But it depends on how You destroy the enemy tank with a plane (guns or bombs)

5 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

They may disable FF or allow that effect for balancing.

Doing that is just turning off realism and people are not happy about it in realistic battles :good:

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7 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

That doesn't have to be the problem of the team by MM :good:


It doesn’t really matter considering the rarity of that all. Going 17-0 is well beyond the norm.

 

8 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

I asked You about it. But it depends on how You destroy the enemy tank with a plane (guns or bombs)


As I said, I haven’t bothered looking at it lately. Given all the costs though, the effective earnings rate of aircraft is probably lower than tanks’.

 

9 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Doing that is just turning off realism and people are not happy about it in realistic battles :good:


It wouldn’t be much different than 1950s jets without their full capabilities facing modern counters, as is the case now.

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8 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

It doesn’t really matter considering the rarity of that all. Going 17-0 is well beyond the norm.

Again, there is a simpler way to get it. Give people some time to find it ;)

8 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

As I said, I haven’t bothered looking at it lately. Given all the costs though, the effective earnings rate of aircraft is probably lower than tanks’.

"Probably"

8 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

It wouldn’t be much different than 1950s jets without their full capabilities facing modern counters, as is the case now.

So next thing would be adding things like markers and cross giving You indicator where to aim? Are we trying to make another AB here? Like really I'm starting to think that You want to do all things so from start there would be a storm of nuclear weapons making the ground no place to play :lol2:

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1 minute ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Again, there is a simpler way to get it. Give people some time to find it ;)


People earning things isn’t a big concern.

 

If someone earns 3000 SP, they’ve earned their try with this mechanic.

 

2 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Probably


Yep—I have to check the rate unless you know it.

 

2 minutes ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

So next thing would be adding things like markers and cross giving You indicator where to aim? Are we trying to make another AB here? Like really I'm starting to think that You want to do all things so from start there would be a storm of nuclear weapons making the ground no place to play :lol2:


You have a vivid imagination—but I said none of that.

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Just now, warrior412 said:

People earning things isn’t a big concern.

 

If someone earns 3000 SP, they’ve earned their try with this mechanic.

Killstreak mechanic that allows to end the battle in an instant is not something that should be eaisly earned

1 minute ago, warrior412 said:

You have a vivid imagination—but I said none of that.

I'm just telling You how it seems to be from the point of atomic bombs for planes and disabling FF ;)

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