SilkMonger

Can we get a ground only mode?

3 minutes ago, PhugTheWar said:

 

 

Thanks for the head ups share

 

1 minute ago, Mr_Dumplin_Popo said:

And as we can see majority wants only tank mode 225 agaist 100 ;) 

 

Wants additional an TO mode map

Edited by NO_DRAGON
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2 minutes ago, NO_DRAGON said:

Wants additional an TO mode

I don't want to delete air/tank RB, i just want a mode for tanks only (this first will die by natural death ;) )

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Possible but not necessary, it might only speed up what is necessary to make combined battles more appreciated.

 

Balance and diversity so that mode would actually give everyone a bit of what he searches and deserves

 

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22 minutes ago, Mr_Dumplin_Popo said:

Yes you are right that people who want to play other things than you are closed minded. 

why u care about random games Bambus? get back to your tournaments, no planes there :V

7 minutes ago, Mr_Dumplin_Popo said:

I don't want to delete air/tank RB, i just want a mode for tanks only (this first will die by natural death ;) )

well there was tank only mode, wonder where it go :V

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7 minutes ago, Mr_Dumplin_Popo said:

I don't want to delete air/tank RB, i just want a mode for tanks only (this first will die by natural death ;) )

 

See 

 

PM

 

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22 minutes ago, NO_DRAGON said:

Thanks for the head ups share

You are welcome!

 

I think a lot of people would like to see a TO mode, because they just don't like the way planes are implemented in GF - like suicide planes, for example. All complaints about it have reached nothing so far.

 

The MM could indeed check, if a player preferably wants to participate in TO mode in order to match those players. If there are not enough of them in the queue, it could act like it does right now.

Of course, the number of active players in WT ist just insufficient, hence there is no way Gaijin will allow such a choice exclusionary.

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The only way split modes would work with the desire for fast queues is filling out games with lots of named bots.

 

A fighter-only mode would probably necessitate the same thing.

 

Other than padding games with bots to keep queues low I just don’t see how Tank-only would work.

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2 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

The only way split modes would work with the desire for fast queues is filling out games with lots of named bots.

 

A fighter-only mode would probably necessitate the same thing.

 

Other than padding games with bots to keep queues low I just don’t see how Tank-only would work.

I think the mode who would have problems would be air/tank mode ;) 

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1 minute ago, Mr_Dumplin_Popo said:

I think the mode who would have problems would be air/tank mode ;) 

I suspect both modes would have problems, honestly.

 

But would filling excess space with bots solve things or would that be too many free points for people? Because otherwise, after the initial split queues will be sent through the roof. 

 

It’s either bots or more BR compression. I’d personally rather take the bots but at the same time they’d be almost too easy to kill as a result.

 

But, if the addition of a tank-only mode caused ordinance to get un-nerfed, I could support it. 

 

I just don’t know how it could work in a way the devs could allow. Giving players free kills via bots would probably not work since they’d massively upend the ingame economy. Meanwhile a larger BR spread - more BR compression - would make the vast majority of tanks useless in all modes due to constant uptiers.

 

The devs have taken easy-route solutions before to problems like this. We saw it with the excessive ordinance nerfs and the lack of a fix for bombs falling through the ground. We saw it with episodes of BR compression in the past. We saw it with the increase of BR spread from 0.7 to 1.0. Tank-only could make some players happy and might even bring more people to the game, I don’t really know. But the initial consequence of splitting the mode would result in any of the following:

- lots of 8v8 or smaller games

- the above but filling empty slots with bots, then using increased earnings by people farming them to jack up repair bills across the board

- or more BR compression we don’t need, as 1.0 is bad enough. Pitting a reserve-level tank against a 2.3 would not be good at all, hell some Sim events have this occur (T-60 vs Panzer IV F1 for example) and it’s a completely unbalanced slaughter.

 

I’m not afraid of a Tank-only mode being popular. Nor am I afraid of a loss of targets for planes to kill. I’m afraid of the consequences of the mode split and playerbase split.

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I personally doubt that either mode would suffer.

Cause if that would be the Case, why doesn't Air RB suffer the same. There are never to less players in Air RB and neither a lack of Pilots in GF RB

 

I rather would await that an TO mode would get a lot lost Tankplayers back for that mode and therefor would lift up the amount of general players a day.

 

And Combined RB could be kept alive alone by lifting the XP/SL could earn in those opposed to the single modes.

 

That way people who want to grind something special might be pulled towards que-ing up for an Combined Mode.

Or via Events.

 

SB Tanks was roaring before changes and hiding behind an historical event system too. When they changed it SB GF suffered playernumbers compared to before.

 

But what do I care, this Year there are certain other projects in work that will put seriously pressure on the Devs to either make changes towards the playerbase or suffer players leaving for said project.

 

I don't say that as an fact, but I believe that is what will happen, after seeing the progress of said projects.

 

 

 

 

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The fact that a whole branch of the tank tech tree exists to shoot down airplanes shows that tanks only modes were never the primary goal of ground forces RB.

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24 minutes ago, KaiserMelech said:

The fact that a whole branch of the tank tech tree exists to shoot down airplanes shows that tanks only modes were never the primary goal of ground forces RB.

 

That is as to say Attackers proof planes where never intended to have their own gamemode either

 

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I’m worried about the consequences of a playerbase split by doing such a thing as a tank only mode. I’m not actually against a tank-only mode, but I’m afraid of the consequences of the inevitable playerbase split.

 

Because either we might get something like small games as the norm, games half-filled with bots, or bigger BR spread. 

 

Small games would make slow tanks a pain to play because you’d more often than not find nothing unless the map was small. 

 

Meanwhile games half-filled with bots run the risk of hiking everyone’s repair costs because of too many free rewards, as we saw with Japanese fighters when Saipan was half the air map rotation for them. Bots would also be annoying to slow and unarmored units by giving away stealthy positions, or occasionally even killing lightly armored vehicles.

 

And bigger BR spread would render massive swathes of vehicles useless. A 2.0 spread would turn 6.7 back into a black hole at the cost of everything above it being yanked to 9.0. 

 

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40 minutes ago, NO_DRAGON said:

 

That is as to say Attackers proof planes where never intended to have their own gamemode either

 

Except both air arcade and air realistic modes have a wealth of ground targets.  

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Just now, KaiserMelech said:

Except both air arcade and air realistic modes have a wealth of ground targets.  

And they also feature BS markers causing half of an enemy team to YOLO after that one plane. 

 

Seen it happen when flying the Duck. Then when I was about to be shot, I bailed to troll every last one of the idiots. 

 

Kill fighters first dumbasses. Fighters currently win games 99% of the time yet people still dive after attack planes and bombers and I can’t think of a serious reason why. Wouldn’t the “team winning the match” rewards vastly outpace the personal gain for shooting down something that can barely or not at all shoot back?

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3 hours ago, KaiserMelech said:

Except both air arcade and air realistic modes have a wealth of ground targets.  

killing bots is boring, they dont :crying:

1 hour ago, SilkMonger said:

If there is an ignore function, especially one that also hides my posts from someone, then please let me know about it, as I am tired of warrior412.

profile/ignored users

 

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8 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Battle Royale is the closest thing to what you propose. That it failed dismally is a sign of its fundamentally flawed concept.

It was nothing at all like what I proposed with the exception that there weren't planes involved.  I have stated many times, "Just like the current RTB, minus the airplanes", and Battle Royale was nothing like the current RTB.  That whole thing was just to mislead readers that might be too lazy to look up Battle Royale.

8 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

People who don't play both aircraft and tanks miss out on literally half of the game. A person who only plays aircraft or only plays tanks cannot understand the game in full; they simply do not have the experience.

 

That makes as much sense as saying that people who don't have sex with both genders miss out on half the experience.  Not everyone has the inclination or the talent to fly. 

 

8 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

If TO was implemented, it'd split the RB playerbase. By how much? We cannot know. Regardless, if Gaijin makes a mode, they will do their best to prop it up regardless. That could very well mean exacerbating BR compression.

 

You cannot have it both ways.  Either it *is* a popular idea, and gaijin is worried about the queue times, or it is not a popular idea, and nobody will play it.  If half the RTB folks are just waiting to play without pilots screwing the game up, I'd say that was significant.  If it's way less than half, then giving it a try should not be a big deal.

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Funny thing is, this Year is the first Year in War Thunders history, that competitive Games come out and can break the long standing "There is nothing else like WT" rule

In the past War Thunder could always rely on the fact that there was only 1 other option which will change this Year with around an Dozen other AAA quality titles coming that have either WW2, Tank battle or Plane Battle as meta. As a lot of other companies have realized the market for such. 

 

Now players will be able to play high end AAA grade Team oriented Tank Games with infantry support on an tactical base. 

Where one can button up in an tank and use an rotatable periscope, has multi crewed tanks Scout vehicles, SPGs etc. without any real air treat.

As one example.

Or WW2 Plane Games that offer the option to modify ones plane to ones personal likes. Mount more or less guns, change all aspects of load out and engine tuning. etc. pp.

 

Result might be that players will go play there, which will make Que times even more despicable and revenue even so.

 

It is in the Developers hands to either include changes due the changed market conditions or take it and lose in the long term.

As some of the Alphas I have seen are already looking photo realistic. Incl. the inf. Something WT can't compete with. especially not as Inf is something never coming to WT due the Age rating for PS4 and XBox.

 

And with multi crew vehicles that are so detailed that every original detail is working there is no way WT can stand competitive with its approach.

***But that is my humble opinion and not an matter of fact*** as some other people usually state their opinion

 

 

Edited by NO_DRAGON
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31 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

The size of the split would be irrelevant.

Which is absolutely false.  If it's only 5 people that want to play RTB without CAS, then 5 people will see very unhappy queue times and nobody else will notice.  The size of the split is key to this whole equation. 

If 10% of people go over to tanks-only, queue times increase a bit (10% or so) for the current mode, and they're really long for tanks-only.   Current mode folks might notice, but I doubt it.  If the 10% are loyal despite queue times, then it's no big deal, and things can continue as usual.  Maybe time will get more players as tankers who don't want to be pilots quit getting turned off when their team takes to the air and ruins the game on the ground.

if 25% of the people leave current mode for tanks only, then the wait time does go up noticably, but by a percentage (33%, if I'm not mistaken) So a queue that might have taken a minute will instead be 80 seconds.  A 3 minute queue would instead be 4 minutes, etc.  That isn't a game ender in the short term, and again, if the tank-only players are really interested in their mode, their queue times are going to be 4 times as long, but if they get a good game out of it, they'll wait. 

If it splits 50/50, then queue times double for everyone.  Pilots have to wait a bit longer to bomb player-driven tanks, while tank-only folks get the game they've waited on for years.  I know you will say no good will come from this, but I would love to bet money that it would, and that more players would come to War Thunder.
 

Now for the other possibilities, if 75% or so left the current mode for TO, then you pilot types would have to drive tanks for each other until the hardcore tankers could be enticed to come back and drive the targets for you again, because I doubt many of you would wait 4X as long in queue to get spawn camped when the other team beat you to that first cap.  The very play styles I really don't care for would be very popular on both sides.

Lastly, it is possible that the pilots and the tankers would abandon the current TRB entirely, with the pilots going back to ARB and the tankers in TO.  Yes, the pilots would complain bitterly at this, since it is far more fun to bomb players than bots, but that would only happen if you were absolutely wrong about everything you've said about how TO would not be fun and how the majority of players dearly love the current mode and it's just a few of us that want to escape from the current mode.  (I will even forgo the sarcasm I would love to type here!)

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4 minutes ago, SilkMonger said:

Which is absolutely false.  If it's only 5 people that want to play RTB without CAS, then 5 people will see very unhappy queue times and nobody else will notice.  The size of the split is key to this whole equation. 

If 10% of people go over to tanks-only, queue times increase a bit (10% or so) for the current mode, and they're really long for tanks-only.   Current mode folks might notice, but I doubt it.  If the 10% are loyal despite queue times, then it's no big deal, and things can continue as usual.  Maybe time will get more players as tankers who don't want to be pilots quit getting turned off when their team takes to the air and ruins the game on the ground.

if 25% of the people leave current mode for tanks only, then the wait time does go up noticably, but by a percentage (33%, if I'm not mistaken) So a queue that might have taken a minute will instead be 80 seconds.  A 3 minute queue would instead be 4 minutes, etc.  That isn't a game ender in the short term, and again, if the tank-only players are really interested in their mode, their queue times are going to be 4 times as long, but if they get a good game out of it, they'll wait. 

If it splits 50/50, then queue times double for everyone.  Pilots have to wait a bit longer to bomb player-driven tanks, while tank-only folks get the game they've waited on for years.  I know you will say no good will come from this, but I would love to bet money that it would, and that more players would come to War Thunder.
 

Now for the other possibilities, if 75% or so left the current mode for TO, then you pilot types would have to drive tanks for each other until the hardcore tankers could be enticed to come back and drive the targets for you again, because I doubt many of you would wait 4X as long in queue to get spawn camped when the other team beat you to that first cap.  The very play styles I really don't care for would be very popular on both sides.

Lastly, it is possible that the pilots and the tankers would abandon the current TRB entirely, with the pilots going back to ARB and the tankers in TO.  Yes, the pilots would complain bitterly at this, since it is far more fun to bomb players than bots, but that would only happen if you were absolutely wrong about everything you've said about how TO would not be fun and how the majority of players dearly love the current mode and it's just a few of us that want to escape from the current mode.  (I will even forgo the sarcasm I would love to type here!)

 

We'll probably never know for sure, as development appears to have no interest moving in that direction.

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4 hours ago, Rclz said:

The problem is, when rockets finally become strong again there will be no balance whatsoever. On one side we will have UK and USA with their Griffon Spitfires, P-47s Wyverns, AD-2s and AD-4s that will be able to kill the enemy team twice and probably still have some rockets left. On the other side, we will have Germany, Italy and Japan that can get ... one, two kills per flight?

But who do have flak and fighters that they should be using to tie up and kill enemy aircraft before they can actually hurt anyone.

 

This was a thing people figured out on the tail end of the old rocket spam - if you populate the air with fighters yourself, then the enemy aircraft are simply overwhelmed, especially in they're coming in loaded up for air to ground. This was a point where suddenly spawning up large numbers of aircraft was actually a death sentence for the Allies, as they'd be dumping all their SP into aircraft that are too loaded up with bombs or simply not equipped to play air superiority.

 

This was actually the first point where Germany showed that it did have powerful air to ground - not with rockets and bombs, but with MK 103s, that gave them greater adaptability than any other nation by being able to switch between air to air and air to ground at will, without having to ditch/get more ordinance or pay any extra SP. The raw power was lower (Especially on the higher end of things, where a few aircraft are rather unbalanced right now), but the adaptability was much higher. Italy and Japan are still kinda shafted, but Germany does have some pretty good, if unconventional air to ground power.

 

As a side note, US already has an AD-4 that can very much clean teams similar to how rockets used to. But you never see that happen, do you? Why? Because they're all getting killed before they can do it.

 

1 hour ago, SilkMonger said:

You cannot have it both ways.  Either it *is* a popular idea, and gaijin is worried about the queue times, or it is not a popular idea, and nobody will play it.  If half the RTB folks are just waiting to play without pilots screwing the game up, I'd say that was significant.  If it's way less than half, then giving it a try should not be a big deal.

 

43 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

The size of the split would be irrelevant.

Actually, the size of the split is very relevant, though in a kinda funny way. The less even it is, the worse the problem is. It only takes one mode with too few people for Gaijin to make changes - especially if that mode is the combined arms mode, which is their baby. I would like to say that if only a handful of people move to Ground Only, that would probably be fine, as interest would obviously be low in that situation and the mode could just be pulled, but that's unfortunately not the case. It's become clear that a great deal of our most vocal players (note: not necessarily of all players, just of the ones who speak up) are all for a ground only mode being added immediately. If it was added, and then removed, the uproar would seemingly be like that of that one time they added AB maps to RB air, which would result in the mode being readded and Gaijin attempting to rebalance. If only a handful of people are left in Combined, instead, you can expect some pretty major changes in balance very quickly, as Gaijin doesn't want to drop the mode. Based on their track record, these balance changes Gaijin makes will likely have effects outside of their intended modes.

 

As a side note, I think the addition of a new mode would simply be bad for Gaijin itself. Gaijin is a pretty small company, and only a fairly small part of them is working on War thunder - low enough that some file diggers have apparently learned to identify certain coders based off notations they leave in their flight models, with one (who apparently did the new 190 and Corsair models) being pretty infamous. We've watched the overall quality of the game slowly drop since shortly after Ground Forces was added. With some people already working on ships (a bad venture, IMO) on the side, they already seem to be stretched thin as it is. If the new mode were to have it's own balance changes (Which I feel it probably would, with the removal of aircraft), I don't think they could keep up. I mean, they're barely keeping up now. The scales of balance are only a couple of Kgs away from being well and truly tipped across the board - I don't like to think what could happen if you gave them another platform they have to stand on.

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12 hours ago, Rclz said:

The problem is, when rockets finally become strong again there will be no balance whatsoever. On one side we will have UK and USA with their Griffon Spitfires, P-47s Wyverns, AD-2s and AD-4s that will be able to kill the enemy team twice and probably still have some rockets left. On the other side, we will have Germany, Italy and Japan that can get ... one, two kills per flight?

Ideally, I’d like to think a true fix to rocket weapons would entail:

- correct pen, postpen, and flight path for existing rocket types (I’m actually hesitant to nerf the overperforming S-21 because Russia really does have next to nothing, but Tiny Tims, Type 5 Mod 6s, and Werfergranate 21s should be made just as destructive for balance reasons - no plane gets more than two shots with big rockets, and if 21cm ones get the artificial tweak to fire one at a time like japan rockets, then so be it)

- greatly enhanced postpen for HE, HESH, and HEAT (basically think what both of the corresponding tank shells once were capable of, only now both said tank shells AND rockets would be buffed)

- correct pen and slope modifier for HESH (“pen”-wise it did in fact slowly decrease with greater angling, the 105 HESH got 152mm flat on and decreased towards 127 as angling increased, but as angle decreased, postpen rapidly increased)

- adding missing kinds of rockets (Mk25 HEAT HVARs, HEAT RP-3s, HESH RP-3s to all planes sensibly equipped with them. This may cause some BR shuffling as all of these are postwar weapons.

- correctly modelling the shell types on all aircraft-mounted antitank guns so they don’t bounce as stupidly often, just about every plane-mounted AT gun is supposed to be a copy of a tank gun ingame, so couldn’t they just copy-paste them?

- a buff to subcaliber rounds in postpen so HVAP/APCR is more than just a high speed needle.

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