SilkMonger

Can we get a ground only mode?

14 hours ago, StronkVodka said:

Yeah sure, and in that case let's make planes spawn on airfields hundreds of kilometers from the battle, and make aircraft repair/rearm/refuel take longer than ~20 seconds. It's only fair.

I was wondering when you’d join this little scuffle.

 

I’d honestly just prefer to see planes spawn on AF with actually good, if not slightly overperforming weapons as compensation for tank magikrepair, and meanwhile lower spawn costs of planes lacking ordinance so there’s always a good defense against them.

 

Then also add the lead indicator to SPAAG (I believe SPAAG in Tournaments get this feature and it keeps planes reigned in) so the anti-plane crowd also gets good weapons that are just as easy to use as any tank is to stop plane spam.

 

I can be a reasonable person and am willing to compromise, but planes have been nerfed so much they’ve got nothing left to give up really. Tanks meanwhile keep their ridiculous magic repairs throughout all of this.

 

I’d personally like to see tank magic repairs always made like how stock tanks are now - only repairable by scout tanks and in caps. Then nonlethal hits will actually cripple someone if not make them J out. But that would need testing in a separate event.

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Funny thought,

 

every time someone asks for an "Tank only" mode (not saying the combined mode should be shelved) the typical people pop into the Topic and come straight to their point that there is nothing like an Tank only mode, planes are already nerved to oblivion, NO ONE wants an Tank only mode at all.

 

I wonder what it is they fear if an Tank only mode would get additional be implemented.

 

That they can not kill tanks anymore cause of an lack of players?? According to them it shouldn't be an problem, as anyway no one wants an Tank only mode.

 

I for myself have for a few that are like extremist fighting their cause already found my answer. Whereas some admit there might be place for compromises in any kind, which shows yes some see there is an potential there to improve the game for more players and in such an way improve playernumbers in general for WT.

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5 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

Planes need more usefulness in winning games and working weapons. Planes need a much greater variety of targets to go after than exclusively player tanks. Clean fighters need lower spawn costs so they can optionally be first-spawn units. All planes need airfield spawns, and since the tanks are still the primary win objective, AFs in this mode should have no AAA. Tanks need all earnings of RP/SL, SP, and scoreboard points increased to match planes in the same mode. SPAAG need serious buffs via the lead indicator, and radar-equipped ones also should get markers.

You have that... in air modes :lol2:

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29 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

I’d personally like to see tank magic repairs always made like how stock tanks are now - only repairable by scout tanks and in caps. Then nonlethal hits will actually cripple someone if not make them J out. But that would need testing in a separate event.

Anyone that enjoy playing tanks will be outraged if Gaijin removes the repair modifications. While planes can continue flying and fighting if they suffer damage, tanks becomes unable to move and/or fire. I'm willing to bet a lot of players would quit driving tanks if Gaijin were to implement your idea.

Edited by StronkVodka

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2 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

I’m honestly disappointed in you for suggesting to put warrior on ignore.

 

Yes warrior is a broken record, and I guess to a lesser extent so am I. But the nerf in 1.71 was excessive - rockets were kinda thrown all over the place in terms of accurate modelling, some at minimum possible effectiveness, some at maximum possible effectiveness, some straight-up modelled wrong, and one (S-21?) possibly overperforming.

 

Then people were like: “hmm if rockets are nerfed I can always use bombs”

 

Only then do you realize your bombs fall through the ground more often than not, especially on any low-elevation map close to sea level where a bomb landing on what looks to be dry land causes a big sploosh of water that soaks up almost all of the blast force. I’ve seen it on Abandoned Factory, Normandy, and Tunesia more times than I can count. Concussive force to the crew inside the tank isn’t modelled at all. I’ve had my Churchill VII almost completely flipped over by a bomb landing within spitting distance of me and the worst damage it did was bust tracks - if the force was enough to completely flip a tank that heavy it damn well should have killed me. Then almost all antitank cannons mounted on planes have improperly modelled ammo that bounces far more often than it should due to some excessively bad slope modifiers on uncapped rounds. Then also all subcaliber rounds are underperforming greatly so even though many planes have such ammo to use on said cannons they’re worthless to use. 

 

This is not okay. This is completely backwards. I’ve literally stopped flying CAS as a result of the nerfs, but still fly fighters as counter-CAS as I enjoy markerless dogfights. 

 

Planes need more usefulness in winning games and working weapons. Planes need a much greater variety of targets to go after than exclusively player tanks. Clean fighters need lower spawn costs so they can optionally be first-spawn units. All planes need airfield spawns, and since the tanks are still the primary win objective, AFs in this mode should have no AAA. Tanks need all earnings of RP/SL, SP, and scoreboard points increased to match planes in the same mode. SPAAG need serious buffs via the lead indicator, and radar-equipped ones also should get markers.


Again, really, all of that is off topic.  The game has players that do not wish to fly, they want to drive a tank, and there currently is no mode in the game where tanking skill is what wins the fight.  Pilots (and it does not matter which side they are on) can take control of the game away from the ground players and cause a win for one or the other side that leaves the tankers with no real way to score.  The ground battle games I enjoy (BY FAR!) most are those where people all seem to stay on the ground and fight as teams.  This is why I would LOVE to see a ground-only mode.

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15 minutes ago, StronkVodka said:

I'm just pointing out the fact that planes have magic repairs too, not just tanks. Anyone that enjoy playing tanks will be outraged if Gaijin removes the repair modifications. While planes can continue flying and fighting if they suffer damage, tanks becomes unable to move and/or fire. I'm willing to bet a lot of players would quit driving tanks if Gaijin were to implement your idea.

Both tanks and planes have designated areas where they can still repair, and tanks also have scout units able to repair them? All I’m suggesting is that the Parts module increases repair speed twofold instead. It’ll still have a use, but not as much of a P2W one.

 

How is that not balanced? This also fixes concerns where one tank pens another first but still loses because of arguably BS game mechanics.

14 minutes ago, SilkMonger said:

Again, really, all of that is off topic.  The game has players that do not wish to fly, they want to drive a tank, and there currently is no mode in the game where tanking skill is what wins the fight.  Pilots (and it does not matter which side they are on) can take control of the game away from the ground players and cause a win for one or the other side that leaves the tankers with no real way to score.  The ground battle games I enjoy (BY FAR!) most are those where people all seem to stay on the ground and fight as teams.  This is why I would LOVE to see a ground-only mode.

It’s not off topic since you were the one proposing to delete CAS entirely instead of fixing it and giving tankers more ways to win.

 

Adding a much larger variety of targets to the battlefield (only the artillery group for each side would be out of tanker reach) in the form of a really big line of AI Pillboxes, Light Pillboxes, MG nests, AT guns, and AI tanks in front of spawns and [Battle] capture points. These things would be worth in total a third of the tickets of a given team. Another third would be in the form of periodically spawning supply convoys near the battlefield that drive into spawn areas to resupply the tanks with fuel and ammo (and yes if you’re wondering I think tanks should also have fuel limits and the option to not fill every fuel tank, but if all the fuel tanks in a given vehicle are destroyed, it can’t move b/c all the fuel leaked out). The remaining amount would be the ticket bleed for controlling enough areas. 

 

Yes, I’ve occasionally had games where there’s one plane up sitting on his runway stalling the inevitable. Yes it’s slightly annoying but its NOT as game-breaking as you make it out to be.

 

I also enjoy playing as tanks, it’s a fun cat-&-mouse game that plays sorta like chess. But when you’ve got someone in a camping spot that a tank literally can’t root someone out of due to stupid map boundaries, and arty usually doesn’t work vs anything armored, planes are supposed to be able to stop situations like that - except with now over-nerfed rockets and bugged bombs they can’t reliably do that.

Edited by MH4UAstragon

P8triot (Posted )

ACtually...OP proposed GB be renamed 'Combined battles" and a ground only battle be also given as an additional play mode. So he is not advocating removal of CAS. So you are off topic friend
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5 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

It’s not off topic since you were the one proposing to delete CAS entirely instead of fixing it and giving tankers more ways to win.

 

In no way does adding a mode eliminate the modes of play already available.  You are misstating what I am attempting to get done entirely.  The current "realistic tank battles" would still be there, only renamed to "combined arms" or somesuch.  I am proposing to add another mode of play in which it is only ground forces, with *maybe* a rare airplane, once in a while.

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60% of the time CAS doesn't bother me all to bad, mostly while playing my Soviet tanks. But what I have noticed recently with my big fat German tanks (jagdtiger, tiger 2) is that allied CAS can be a frustrating, game ruining experience especially on open maps where there are long distances to travel to get at objectives and little cover. What the allies tend to do is spawn in M18's, M41's and T92's so they get the capture points before anyone else, get killed, then spawn in any number of Allied fighters that can carry a bomb load. This leads to me getting crapped on by 1000 lb bombs before I even get to make any impact on the game way more often then it should. Yes, German spaa is excellent but with multiple planes in the air they simply gang up and and farm you for free xp. However I still don't think that a ground only game mode is the best solution to the problem.

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18 minutes ago, SilkMonger said:


None of that is on topic.  All of that is about the currently available mode of play, which I am not typing about.  I am asking that they let the people who do not wish to fly have a battle mode for themselves.  All of your proposals could be nice for the current "tank realistic battle" mode, and that's fine, but I'm not typing about that mode.  This post isn't proposing changes to it, it is proposing another mode of play.

And I’m suggesting fixing the obvious wrongs of this one mode instead of making yet another mode to fragment an already small playerbase.

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Just now, MH4UAstragon said:

And I’m suggesting fixing the obvious wrongs of this one mode instead of making yet another mode to fragment an already small playerbase.

I think that more players would come to WT if there was only tank mode ;) 

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11 minutes ago, *Comrad-Kruschev said:

60% of the time CAS doesn't bother me all to bad, mostly while playing my Soviet tanks. But what I have noticed recently with my big fat German tanks (jagdtiger, tiger 2) is that allied CAS can be a frustrating, game ruining experience especially on open maps where there are long distances to travel to get at objectives and little cover. What the allies tend to do is spawn in M18's, M41's and T92's so they get the capture points before anyone else, get killed, then spawn in any number of Allied fighters that can carry a bomb load. This leads to me getting crapped on by 1000 lb bombs before I even get to make any impact on the game way more often then it should. Yes, German spaa is excellent but with multiple planes in the air they simply gang up and and farm you for free xp. However I still don't think that a ground only game mode is the best solution to the problem.

Well Germany does lack non-premium mobile armor. And this is a pretty big issue. 

 

Fixing ordinance and providing more objectives for all parties to do, plus allowing US+UK+GER as an available team again, would go a considerable way to fixing this mess.

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Adding a new mode is something I think would keep more players, and maybe draw more players as well.  Have you seen World of Tanks?  It's like preschool in comparison, and I'm thinking those tankers would come here if there were a tank-only mode available. 

 

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Just now, Mr_Dumplin_Popo said:

I think that more players would come to WT if there was only tank mode ;) 

Not necessarily. War Thunder is more realistic in damage modelling, but other than that and I guess map design the game is still copying WoT in too many places. And since in many practical purposes it doesn’t improve on WoT to a massive degree, most players of that game stick to that game. 

 

There’s a constant bicker-fest between combined-arms players and plane-haters. Back and forth the buff-nerf pendulum swings.

 

Tanks and planes need more stuff to do and more game modes besides “sit in circle and attack/defend said circle”. All weapons should get rightful buffs to reality. The kill cam should probably be removed from RB as it enables revenge bombing. 

2 minutes ago, SilkMonger said:

Adding a new mode is something I think would keep more players, and maybe draw more players as well.  Have you seen World of Tanks?  It's like preschool in comparison, and I'm thinking those tankers would come here if there were a tank-only mode available. 

 

Perhaps, but it flies in the face of what this game’s supposed selling point is. Ordinance needs fixing, SPAAG need fixing, all players need more targets, the game needs more unique objectives than copying WoT. The kill cam and plane airspawns should probably be removed too. Planes w/o ordinance should be able to spawn at game start. Spawn costs of planes with ordinance should go massively up. 

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3 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

Not necessarily. War Thunder is more realistic in damage modelling, but other than that and I guess map design the game is still copying WoT in too many places. And since in many practical purposes it doesn’t improve on WoT to a massive degree, most players of that game stick to that game. 

 

There’s a constant bicker-fest between combined-arms players and plane-haters. Back and forth the buff-nerf pendulum swings.

 

Tanks and planes need more stuff to do and more game modes besides “sit in circle and attack/defend said circle”. All weapons should get rightful buffs to reality. The kill cam should probably be removed from RB as it enables revenge bombing. 

This game is beautiful compared to WoT.  I can't think of any way this game doesn't improve over WoT with the exception of needing a mode of play that does not include the airplanes.  I can understand that the pilots are afraid that their targets would all go and play without them, but that will only happen if the combined arms version of the game is unbalanced in favor of the airplanes.

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The only reason they don't give us tank only mode is money. If you want to have any sort of relevance in comined arms, you need to have at least 2 planes in your line-up. That means more crew to train and two times more vehicles to grind = profit for Gaijin because people are more likely to buy premium and premium vehicles.

It's not because people don't want it or don't like it, it's because it would significantly reduce Gaijin's income. Likewise, when ships are playable they will 100% force a mode with Navy, Air and Army, just so that people need even more crew and even more vehicles to be effective and grind efficiently.

Edited by Rclz
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A tank-only mode would end the bicker-fest.  Tankers that appreciate combined arms would play if they had a fair shot at their skills/vehicles winning, as would the pilots.  If/when the mode was out of balance, you would have fewer of the disadvantaged players playing until it was changed.

As for "flies in the face of the game's supposed selling point", I don't see that as any sort of argument.  I do not suggest they remove the combined arms mode.  I only propose they allow tankers to drive tanks rather than just targets.  The drum I beat to death is NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO FLY, and it is still true.  My suspicion is that the folks arguing against a tank-only mode are all pilots who want to keep their access to the target players, and I can understand how it benefits a person to have 2nd class folks around to use, but while life is life, a game should strive to be fair.

I can't effectively seek support for tank-only while in a match.  Once one or the other side has too many players take to the air, the game is ruined.  (One side wins by a landslide, and which side does this depends on the pilots)  By the time this happens, the unhappy tankers are usually dead and gone before I die and have time to type.

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1 minute ago, Rclz said:

How do you know how much support tank only has? Just from this thread I can already see that large portion of players would like that.

 

Now is the time you bring up how Battle Royale wasn't succesful despite it not being representative of tank only RB gameplay.

Shhhh, let him live in his own world ;) 

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IF this topic is about adding an tank only mode, stop falling for the off topic,/ rule violation trap and argue why you want an Tank only mode. Not why the current mode is unfair.

 

As an Tank only mode would solve that problem by it self as some already pointed out. 

 

If enough player decide to not play combined it will die off. If not enough play an tank only mode the same will happen.

 

So there is no point in arguing with plane defenders at all in here as it would be solved due the effective flavor of the majority and those arguments anyway are nowhere based on facts as no one knows already the out come of "what if?" a tank only mode would be implemented too.

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3 hours ago, MH4UAstragon said:

I’m honestly disappointed in you for suggesting to put warrior on ignore.

 

 

I can relate to your dislike about that, as I am neither happy about it.

 

But I seen to many Tank only topics getting disrupted (off Topic) or people started the bickering (rule violation) thing happening due the extreme coming in and demanding he has eaten all the worlds wisdom with an soup spoon and there is no truth beside his.

Therefor this is the most effective method to stop people falling for it. And on the end it is anyway everyones personal decision to do so.

 

And I hope you have recognised that I see even so the difference between those that want to improve the game for all and those that only fight for one result at all.

 

I like so far what I have seen from you towards possible changes / improvements for RB GF and EC. Sadly you can't see how many likes you cashed already in from me.

 

Keep it up and maybe one day the Devs really start to listen to you. At least I hope they do.

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13 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

Wrong on all counts. I have addressed the real situation and have been alerting others to the realities of things as they are.

An example of you "addressing the real situation and alerting others to the realities of things as they are" is bringing up "Battle Royale" as an example of gaijin trying "tank only" mode and it failing, when that combat had individuals, rather than teams, competing in a "last man standing" mode, as opposed to a tank-only realistic combat the rest of us were typing about.

13 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Aircraft were never something that could not be handled; on the contraty, being an SPAA or fighter in 1.69 was hugely profitable--it was just that people few people acted.

If you are a pilot, then yes, you can deal with aircraft.  If there's an SPAA in the spawn, and 3 fighters camping that spawn, the SPAA *might* get one before his spawn protection runs out, but there is no guarantee.  You can obviously point out that can happen with tanks camping the spawn as well, but (especially on maps with 3 zones in a rough line from one spawn to the other) planes can camp the enemy spawn sooner.

13 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

When bombs and rockets are restored to their historical potential (they're underperforming and glitchy right now), we'll see more cries of "OP!" from those who still haven't learned how to deal with the threat.

That kinda depends on whose history your looking at:  http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/articles/tactics/tank-busting-ww2.php

13 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

If Gaijin thought they could make money on it, we'd have it.

And with enough of us asking, maybe they will give it a shot.

13 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Why would they ignore a mode like this unless it was not profitable?

Maybe we tankers need to hit the forums harder, and try to let them know.  I suspect it does help at least a little that they can see I have spent some money to support their game.

13 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

People enjoy things as they are. People who aren't doing so well would be the majority trying to run into TO to evade their problems.

Translation: You and the other fighter jocks want to keep things as-is.  Likely there is a developer or two on your side that have been able to keep this stifled so far, because they enjoy having tankers as a sort of second class gamer, to drive the targets, and would rather we didn't have somewhere else to play. 

Maybe part of the reason there are more pilots in this game is due to your attitude (not that you're the only one with it) of "if you don't like it, go play World of Tanks".  I suspect many people who think as I do already have left.  I would rather get this game fixed and I think a tank-only mode of play will do just that.

13 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Considering it's far easier to die to tanks than planes, they'd probably end up dying even more.

The most fun I have had in this game has been realistic and sim battles where nobody seemed inclined to fly or spawncamp.  Those games felt like it was a real struggle, rather than one side or another getting steamrolled.  I don't mind dying in such a game.

 

13 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Comically, you seem to think attacking me will get you TO--surprise, surprise--it won't. TO is down for the count.

 

There you go with your drum again.  I can tell you want that to be true, but it isn't your decision, so that isn't something you can honestly say as a fact. 

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1 hour ago, SilkMonger said:

A tank-only mode would end the bicker-fest.  Tankers that appreciate combined arms would play if they had a fair shot at their skills/vehicles winning, as would the pilots.  If/when the mode was out of balance, you would have fewer of the disadvantaged players playing until it was changed.

Uhh, would it actually? I’d think giving tank-only players better weapons to fend off planes with would work far better. 

 

Maybe SPAAG could get a smallish and steady stream of SL and RP (and maybe even SP) for sticking near friendly tanks instead of sitting in spawn, and then give all SPAAG the lead indicator so its less guesswork of how much to lead - the rapidly changing “spatial depth” between you and the target is what makes leading SPAAG fire so much harder than leading gunfire from a plane vs another plane.

1 hour ago, SilkMonger said:

As for "flies in the face of the game's supposed selling point", I don't see that as any sort of argument.  I do not suggest they remove the combined arms mode.  I only propose they allow tankers to drive tanks rather than just targets.  The drum I beat to death is NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO FLY, and it is still true.  My suspicion is that the folks arguing against a tank-only mode are all pilots who want to keep their access to the target players, and I can understand how it benefits a person to have 2nd class folks around to use, but while life is life, a game should strive to be fair.

Uhh, no you’re wrong again. Yes I did once somewhat enjoy CAS but at the same time I felt sorry for the tankers as there was nothing else for me to go bother killing like spawn defenses or arty or something and then the occasional camping player. Yet with properly working weapons - and a well-designed map that’s neither too open nor cluttered - planes could kill certain guys camping forever while not always wiping entire teams.

1 hour ago, SilkMonger said:

I can't effectively seek support for tank-only while in a match.  Once one or the other side has too many players take to the air, the game is ruined.  (One side wins by a landslide, and which side does this depends on the pilots)  By the time this happens, the unhappy tankers are usually dead and gone before I die and have time to type

There is one way I could see separated modes working that would also keep queues as they are til (perhaps) as you say, more people arrive is filling excess slots in both modes with named AI giving the same rewards as players, using both tanks and planes as much as said modes allow. But, that’d be effectively free points for any intelligent player and intense aimbot-frustation for anyone not using something heavily armored.

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Matter of fact is, he doesn't know as we do not know what the extra adding of an GF only mode would do to the AIR GF mode. As that would be decided by the numbers of players in each mode. if a relevant low number would be reached, the devs would most probably try to improve said mode with shrinking numbers and if that wouldn't have the wished effect on a longer term that mode would maybe cut.

 

But no one can for certain say one thing or another happens as there was never an relevant test of this conditions.

 

So arguing that factual one or the other thing wouldn't work is wishful thinking but no factual knowledge at all.

 

 

Edited by NO_DRAGON
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Cause he fears as soon as an tank only mode would get adopted he canne play his style anymore as no one else wants in credible numbers play that Air GF mode anymore. 

 

There is no other reason why WT shouldn't get an TO mode at all.

 

And btw. The same Air fate is awaiting Naval I guess. 

 

Seems only fair if planes can play alone and in all other modes additional , that Tanks and Boats get the same favor and get their own dedicated mode too.

 

And that after that the playernumbers decide which modes are kept and which are cut off

 

 

Edited by NO_DRAGON
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