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7 hours ago, AlphaVI said:

he stats seems so wrong, especialy on the AMX-50 and AMX50 surbaissé that cant be true,

 

and if im not wrong the website had stoped updating like several months ago,

 

like before any of the french tanks like the lorrain40t got uped to 6.7 or 7.0

 

so what you say about all the things on the french or other nations tanks might been all false @No_Camping

No, Thunderskill is back and alive for a few months and will even appear soon on a new version now that it is crowdfunded!
See https://www.patreon.com/thunderskill

Again, just take a tank in your stats and compare them to the stats in the WT client: they are exactly the same.
But Thunderskill also gathers the overall stats of a tank for all players (which Gaijin does not want to do for valid and invalid reasons - another story)


Thunderskill stats are correct, period, and actually help you to debunk some urban legends about certain vehicles! (like the OPness of the Tiger II in the game, whereas its stats are mediocre; it is a very good tank but very badly played by most players who are too passive with it, not exploiting its good armor).


As for the two AMX-50 you mention

  • The AMX-50 is almost as good as the Lorraine 40t in RB (less mobility, but the "armor" can sometimes save your life); in AB it is essentially as good (but the AMX-50 must be played differently, because of the bad reverse). It is then normal that its overall stats are comparable to that of the Lorraine 40t.
  • The AMX-50 Surbaissé is a beast in AB/RB if you know how to alternate aggressive periods and more passive ones. In city environments (Poland, Maginot Line, Advanced to the Rhine...) it is simply a monster. But camping with a tall Surbaissé is suicide (many people do that). As you can see below, the Surbaissé is my favorite (with the Lorraine 40t) and most played tank in AB, and I also play it in RB with good success too. A total of 925+85=1010 battles with it!


Here are the current win rates of my French tanks in AB/RB (ordered according to the number of battles played in them)
2018-12-14_232904.jpg.24376d30eb1bb874f5

Edited by No_Camping
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11 hours ago, No_Camping said:

That won't change anything... It does not matter if 70% win rate is for 1000 players or 100000 players. A rate is a percentage; the size of the sample does not matter... at least, provided it his big enough so that the stats are mathematically significant.
In fact, I suspect that people keeping playing the Lorraine 40t at BR 7.0 (I do; I even play it in RB Tier 6 with good results) will be the best players, so I am not worried for the win rate of French Tier IV tank.

 

Yes but what i meant was: if 1000 or 10000 stops playing the tank, you have no more sample and the data you see is the last being recorded right. So it does not reflect the actual meta of the game but the one at the time the tank tank was actually playable and not a money sink.

If you say that the best players are the one that can keep this tank at high win rate it is even worse to use this as a balance argument, as not all players are good, so this tank should not be reserved to very good players only, it need to be more accessible either in term of br or repair cost.

 

11 hours ago, No_Camping said:

As for the SL cost I am thinking about the best strategy/arguments to "sell" it to Gaijin. Because, just saying they are too high will not be enough.

 

Yea well the fact that most of vehicule have no armor, so are not hard to kill should be good already, should i show them the object 120? that can pen top tier tank and still have low br and low repair... there are a lot of great examples, about the french tanks, gaijin just listened to the whiny mass who are used to club without thinking, cause telling me that a lorraine 40T is hard to kill is a pure joke, what about a ferdinand, a tiger 2H, a jagtiger in that case? 

 

11 hours ago, No_Camping said:

As for the SL cost I am thinking about the best strategy/arguments to "sell" it to Gaijin. Because, just saying they are too high will not be enough.

Let's be honest, Gaijin cannot give armor to tanks which did not have any. But the great mobility (try to play the UK tanks pas BR 4.7 which are ALL slow), the decent guns with great reload speed make them deadly (kill the gunner or the loader... and you have all the time you need to finish the enemy).
Yet, what is true is that French tanks are not easy to play and require you to exploit their strengths and deal with their weaknesses. People like Russian tanks and/or think they are OP because they are easy to play and anybody can have decent results in a T-34 or a T-54. The good general stats or French tanks also comes the fact that most bad players do not play them, because these tanks are ungrateful to passive/scared players.

 

Yes and it goes back to what i said above, if the only argument for having high br and repair is that they are good tank for skilled players, that's actually more like a counter argument, why balancing vehicules for skilled users only? Why france is the only one where this rule should apply? When i bought a premium to get acces to the tree, it was not writen "carefull tank for skilled players only, the game balance will only take that fact as a valid arguement" (sarcasm), i was thinking the goal and the main valid argument is to have real balance and being on part with other no matter the nation... But i might have been wrong apparently.

Again the risk/reward ratio seems too be way to low for the french, if we had to use half of those arguments for the major nations vehicules in game, i can't even imagine the look of said trees, but again saying a french vehicule is op when most of them can't stand even one hit of aphe is ludicrous.

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On 14/12/2018 at 23:17, No_Camping said:

The good general stats or French tanks also comes the fact that most bad players do not play them, because these tanks are ungrateful to passive/scared players.

you said it XD

and that is why the stats of it are good, also they are 70% paired with usa that wins 90% of their games.

the tanks can penetrate, but canot kill ine one shot, only if you know what to shoot, or how to shoot, its only AP or HE, the time you take your seconde shot, you either be shot, or he runs away

also, you might be a good tanker, some arent, i dont see why the pazer f2 is still at that BR, as the panther II that will soon REKT anything and everyhting state wise

 

but thats up to you, i have my toughts that i see everyday, you have yours

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14 hours ago, AlphaVI said:

usa that wins 90% of their games. 

I am again sorry, but that is simply completely false. I put the stats of Tier 4 American tanks a few posts above. They are similar although slightly better than German stats and waaaayyy below French stats. Here they are again:


http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_t34

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_t92

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_m46_patton

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/us_m26_pershing

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/uk_fv4202

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/uk_vickers_mbt_mk_1

(win rates between 48% and 54%) and waaaayyyyy below that of the French line-up.

But I agree that according to my personal experience, battles against US/UK are generally tougher (but not always) than against Germany, mostly because many German players playing with the French die very fast! Actually, when playing against US/UK, I always hope and check that our team does not have too many German players! By the way, after that, it is hard to still claim that the German Tier 4 line-up is better than the French one in RB... 


I have no formal or definitive proof that people playing French tanks are intrinsically better players than those playing German or US/UK. My argument is that bad players generally rely too much on armor (they feel safer, which is just an illusion as static tanks are easy targets in RB) and are most of the time passive players (I told you, they are "scared"), except for the crazy RU 251 players who die instantly. French tanks impose an active and aggressive play style that you will more often see in above average players. But again, I may be wrong on this issue but that is my impression.
About becoming an "active player", let me advertise here my tutorial which has been pinned by the moderators on the Academy section of the forum:

 

Edited by No_Camping
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On 14/12/2018 at 16:17, No_Camping said:


Yet, what is true is that French tanks are not easy to play and require you to exploit their strengths and deal with their weaknesses. People like Russian tanks and/or think they are OP because they are easy to play and anybody can have decent results in a T-34 or a T-54. The good general stats or French tanks also comes the fact that most bad players do not play them, because these tanks are ungrateful to passive/scared players.

That is one of the reason that I am glad I started with the French line.  Tier One is bad but I enjoy playing them with all their faults.  I love my French 4.7 line up.

 

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its true that french are hard to play,

but best players, far from it, becaus of how nerfed they been and hard to even get killed, 1 mistake, you die,

even no mistake you still die becaus french dont have any ammo

their tanks have a BR set that is too much for them brenus like exmaple

AMX50SUR / lorrain 40t cant even scratch some tanks

 

and constant uptiers for some tanks like the AMX50sur / lorrain40t, fiding themself into 8.0 or 9.0 games,

its not nice and fun becaus even at same br they have stabilizer unlike the french

 

ther is only one tanks that have a stabilizer, its the AMX40, the worst top tier tank, if the british get their ammo fixed

 

when you play french you either be a extreamy good tanker, or you learn to killsteam / let your teamate die to get kills after while the enemy reload

Edited by AlphaVI
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1 hour ago, AlphaVI said:

and constant uptiers for some tanks like the AMX50sur / lorrain40t, fiding themself into 8.0 or 9.0 games,

its not nice and fun becaus even at same br they have stabilizer unlike the french

THIS! 

 

French tanks above 7.3 are for masochistic players.... I like the SuperBias and I really want to play with the AMX-10RC but in 8.0 always fight against 8.7-9.0 not really funny..

They really need to put the B2 in 8.0, Brenus in 8.3, add the C2 in 8.3 & AMX-32 105 in 8.7 and voilà no more suffer 

Edited by ParknsonGiraffe
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5 hours ago, AlphaVI said:

AMX50SUR / lorrain 40t cant even scratch some tanks

 

My answer would be in my stats with these tanks, 8 messages above.

Seriously, all tanks obviously find their limitations against higher BR tanks (but see the end of this message!). Nevertheless, the Lorraine 40t has the best stats in AB/RB/SB (63%/65%/88% win rates) among all Tier 4 tanks (for example: Tiger II (H)=56%/48%/23%, T34=53%/52%/23%), but you keep on saying it is a bad tank... OK. :facepalm:

 

Honestly, @AlphaVI, maybe you should first seriously start playing German and US Tier 4 in RB before comparing (you have 2 games with the T-34, and only a dozen with the Tiger II, compared to 150+ with French tanks... where you have your best RB win rate! Your two tanks with more than 10 battles with the best win rate are the AMX-50 and the Lorraine 40t, both around 70%... I am starting to believe that you are trolling me :lol2:).

By the way, bring the Lorraine 40t in a Tier 6 battle (I do it quite often), and if you are a bit clever, you can actually do something. Bring a German Tiger II or an American T-34 and you will not last a minute... You do not believe me? Watch this video by my friend @matsoon

(I cut the first 2 minutes where nothing happens)

Now do the same thing with a Tiger II or a T34 or a Centurion Mk10 (win rates for the Centurion 52%/47%/36%)! Good luck!

Edited by No_Camping
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1 hour ago, AlphaVI said:

nono that i dont mean, i agree about the lorrain being good, but facing tanks at 8.0 or  tanks that has stabilizer, is rediculouse,

and i have tanks  in germany, and each time i see one even if they play well i just easily kill them even if they shoot at me/dmg me

Well, if you meet me in battle, it is possible that you will not see me when I will one-shot you, because I would be in your back :curious:

Did you watch the video above?

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thats why, i play mostly frenches and as far as it goes, even whene hiting the enemy they get 1 single man stoping a shell / dont do much dmg / disssapears / kill them

true i can oneshot tanks ,but the fact that the french has no explosive filler, is god damn enfurating

 

and you know what is worse ? other players that plays french !

simply becaus they will fking hinder you to ge tthe kill / killsteal / or making you die so they get the kill

im not joking, i dont do that sh*t; but 50% of the time there are french tanks, they are xxxxxxx becaus the BR/ammo/wobling turrets, makes them impossible to kill things it faces

Edited by AlphaVI
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55 minutes ago, AlphaVI said:

thats why, i play mostly frenches and as far as it goes, even whene hiting the enemy they get 1 single man stoping a shell / dont do much dmg / disssapears / kill them

true i can oneshot tanks ,but the fact that the french has no explosive filler, is god damn enfurating

 

and you know what is worse ? other players that plays french !

simply becaus they will fking hinder you to ge tthe kill / killsteal / or making you die so they get the kill

im not joking, i dont do that sh*t; but 50% of the time there are french tanks, they are xxxxxxx becaus the BR/ammo/wobling turrets, makes them impossible to kill things it faces

Don't be so salty...

 

France currently is not a META nation past BR 7.3 but they are far from useless, they have great support tanks. They have great gun and great ammo for the BR but indeed, they are not meant to be played as most nation in the game, I myself have good stats with AMX 30 B2, why do i ? It does not have a stabilizer right ? Well, that's exactly why i have good stats with it, the lack of stab forces me to remain away from the battle, lear good location on maps from which ill be able to support my teammates efficiently, and I always succeed doing so on most maps excluding pure urban maps or CQC like stalingrad, Rhine and abandonned factory... But other than that, i just do fine and often find myself at the top of the leaderboard...

 

French tanks are not bad for their BR (exception being Brennus and Surbaisse, the latter is a powerful tank but it's too big and too poorly armored to sit at 8.0, 7.7 was fine) every other tank can perform in the game, it might not fir the lambad war thunder player but they are definitely not a burden to the nation they are teamed with.

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19 minutes ago, ParknsonGiraffe said:

btw why all french sights has small aiming circle? really annoying  

There is indeed a bug in the field of view (FoV) of the AMX-30B2 and AMX-40 which is too small by 30%...
There was also a bug on the M1 Abrams (lacking x3) and Leopard 2A4 (much too big FoV covering the all screen)
I wrote a bug report for the 3 tanks which were forwarded to the devs... but only the M1 Abrams was corrected (10 days after my report citing my source)...

 

 

 

 

Edited by No_Camping
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19 minutes ago, No_Camping said:

There is indeed a bug in the field of view (FoV) of the AMX-30B2 and AMX-40 which is too small by 30%...
There was also a bug on the M1 Abrams (lacking x3) and Leopard 2A4 (much too big FoV covering the all screen)
I wrote a bug report for the 3 tanks which were forwarded to the devs... but only the M1 Abrams was corrected (10 days after my report citing my source)...

Posted June 25  oh god... almost half year wasn't enough :facepalm:

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2 hours ago, Tantor57 said:

Don't be so salty...

 

France currently is not a META nation past BR 7.3 but they are far from useless, they have great support tanks. They have great gun and great ammo for the BR but indeed, they are not meant to be played as most nation in the game, I myself have good stats with AMX 30 B2, why do i ? It does not have a stabilizer right ? Well, that's exactly why i have good stats with it, the lack of stab forces me to remain away from the battle, lear good location on maps from which ill be able to support my teammates efficiently, and I always succeed doing so on most maps excluding pure urban maps or CQC like stalingrad, Rhine and abandonned factory... But other than that, i just do fine and often find myself at the top of the leaderboard...

 

French tanks are not bad for their BR (exception being Brennus and Surbaisse, the latter is a powerful tank but it's too big and too poorly armored to sit at 8.0, 7.7 was fine) every other tank can perform in the game, it might not fir the lambad war thunder player but they are definitely not a burden to the nation they are teamed with.

true, im bit salty, but that things happends alot, im not making it up

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French Auto loaders are super over rated coming from a british main playing france rn, would you rather have 6 shots that have a 5 second reload and for the rest of the game have an insanely long reload or have consistently reload rates of 7 seconds and even 6 and 5 seconds (challenger with 76, vickers mbt)

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5 hours ago, glock991 said:

French Auto loaders are super over rated coming from a british main playing france rn, would you rather have 6 shots that have a 5 second reload and for the rest of the game have an insanely long reload or have consistently reload rates of 7 seconds and even 6 and 5 seconds (challenger with 76, vickers mbt)

French and british tanks do not share the same play style. British vehicles are meant to advance slowly using their stab and constant rof to react quickly to threats that are ine front of them. French vehicles on the other hand are meant to be played as flankers and harassers so their very high rof and mobility allows them to set ambushes and kills 2-3 vehicles and dissapear before the ennemy can react.

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6 hours ago, Tantor57 said:

French and british tanks do not share the same play style. British vehicles are meant to advance slowly using their stab and constant rof to react quickly to threats that are ine front of them. French vehicles on the other hand are meant to be played as flankers and harassers so their very high rof and mobility allows them to set ambushes and kills 2-3 vehicles and dissapear before the ennemy can react.

Who says I cant do that with the chaioteer? Which right off the bat is better than the amx13,amx m4 and CA Lorraine

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7 hours ago, glock991 said:

Which right off the bat is better than the amx13,amx m4 and CA Lorraine 

Better than the AMX M4? Very dubious statement...  In particular due to the horrible gun depression and reverse of the Charioteer...

Better than the AMX-13? Which one? The One at BR 6.0 (but the Charioteer is 6.7..) or at 7.0? Dubious statement. Clearly a question of style. The AMX-13 has its 5s  with a reload time for it. Try to kill an IS-6 or 4 or 7 with a Charioteer. Peace of cake with the AMX-13 (90) at BR 7.0...

Better than the CA Lorraine? In AB I would certainly agree. In RB, the CA Lorraine is not bad but the Charioteer is probably better. But you compare the Chariotterwith a straight-shooter...
In all case, the huge profile and flat face of the Charioteer compared to these 3 tanks does not play in its favor

 

But again, if you think in terms of a line-up, the stats of the Charioteer are in fact pretty mediocre in AB/RB (like all British tanks in this BR range; see above)
http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/uk_charioteer_mk_7 (49/52% win rate)

 

To be compared to:

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_amx_m4 (57/62% win rate in AB/RB)

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_amx_13_75 (57/62% win rate in AB/RB)

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_amx_13_90 (50/55% win rate in AB/RB)

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_lorraine_100 (55/60% win rate in AB/RB but this tank is rarely used as a first tank so its good stats really comes from the good stats of the French line-up)

But what annoys me again is that you are commenting on tanks that you do not play (at least user glock991). 0 battle in the 3 tanks you mention. So how would you know which one is better? Especially in RB which is a mode where you have only a few battles with tanks.

Edited by No_Camping
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2 hours ago, glock991 said:

Who says I cant do that with the chaioteer? Which right off the bat is better than the amx13,amx m4 and CA Lorraine

Because charioteer is as tall as a barn, because its turret relies on the attraction of the moon to rotate and simply because the charioteer is far less optimum to flank and spank than the amx 13 ? Comparing it to the amx m4 is a god damn joke and CA lorraine is a turretless td whose gaijin gave a horrible rof because why not ?

 

Whats next ? You ll tell me vickers mbt is better than the lorraine 40t in the current meta ?

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13 minutes ago, Tantor57 said:

Whats next ? You ll tell me vickers mbt is better than the lorraine 40t in the current meta ? 

Yes that would be a good joke :lol2:

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/uk_vickers_mbt_mk_1 (54/49% win rate in AB/RB; but @AlphaVI claims that US/UK win 90% of their game in RB :facepalm:)

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicle/fr_lorraine_40t (63/64% win rate in AB/RB)

Edited by No_Camping
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  • No_Camping changed the title to A review of French tanks (Updated 6/January/2021)
  • No_Camping changed the title to A review of French tanks (Updated 24/March/2021)
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