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23 minutes ago, Byebye360 said:

Which is the first one, did you not look it up it answer the question properly?

Duh - my mistake - I assumed FL11 was pretty much the same as FL10 - thanks for pointing it out!!

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On 10/01/2018 at 12:21 AM, FrostSabre said:

What's the deal with the autoloader in the AMX13/75 (FL11)? It either doesn't have a magazine size or the mag size is every shell I brought. It doesn't really seem anything like the Sherman FL10...am I missing something?

 

On 10/01/2018 at 3:04 AM, Byebye360 said:

The first AMX13 does not have an auto loader.

My mistake. In The BR 3.3 section discussing the first AMX-13, I have added a paragraph on the oscillating turret of the AMX-13 and other French tanks, a turret in particular designed to be easily fitted with an autoloader. Since I mention the autoloader there, I chose to still describe its pro and con in this section.
Thanks

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On 10/01/2018 at 3:50 AM, Josephs_Piano said:

Duh - my mistake - I assumed FL11 was pretty much the same as FL10 - thanks for pointing it out!!

By the way, @Josephs_Piano, how did you get the "La Résistance" badge appearing in your signature? I am jealous!

Edited by No_Camping
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10.1.2018 at 12:21 AM, FrostSabre said:

 

What's the deal with the autoloader in the AMX13/75 (FL11)?

because its a horrible machine.

even spaded, it struggles with the gun handling(slow velocity shells with 625m/s) and the wobbly occilating turret as well as the bad power-to-weight ratio, meaning it isn't that good at buggering out of a position fast(unlike something like the M18).

but the worst thing of the AMX-13 (FL11) is the awefully slow reload rate, just as bad as with the tier 1 french tanks, actually.

i mean, 9.7 seconds reload? really? i mean thats the reload rate of the german 88 on the tigers and since crew-training is so slow nowadays, this really is a problem.

 

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1 hour ago, Apfelsator said:

i mean, 9.7 seconds reload? really? i mean thats the reload rate of the german 88 on the tigers and since crew-training is so slow nowadays, this really is a problem.

Yeah many Tier I and II French tanks have totally historically inaccurate reload times (Tier I should be 4s as well documented; 15 shots a minute was the standard rate expected from French tankers on most tanks). Gaijin "justifies" their imaginary reload times of 8s vy the fact that the turret of Tier I French tanks is cramped, which is exactly why there was an official size limit to be a gunner/loader (like in the T-34, ironically)

Edited by No_Camping
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15 hours ago, No_Camping said:

Yeah many Tier I and II French tanks have totally historically inaccurate reload times (Tier I should be 4s as well documented; 15 shots a minute was the standard rate expected from French tankers on most tanks). Gaijin "justifies" their imaginary reload times of 8s vy the fact that the turret of Tier I French tanks is cramped, which is exactly why there was an official size limit to be a gunner/loader (like in the T-34, ironically)

agreed on that.

funnily enough, france is the only nation where they argue like this(as far as i know), even without taking into account the ridiculously short reload times for the t-34's.

gaijin'ed again i guess...here is hope that we will see some improvement in around 6 months, as always with new vehicles.

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It's easy to make a review of french :

 

Tier 1 : don't care and no word for describe this

Tier 2 : good things only come from US tank (B1 are only good if they are not facing german tank)

Tier 3 : Some interesting tanks like ARL 44 (second one. The first is a little bit frustrating) or M4A4 SA50 (best tank in Tier 3 for france) and some completly "don't care" tank like the AMX13 FL-11

 

This tier can be good to play but not the best one.

 

Tier 4 :

 

Lorraine is OP and will go in 6.7 soon.

AMX M4 is a very good tank too. Not OP on my mind because the 90 mm is not as powerfull than the 100 due to the APC ammo don't work so well. AMX M4 still have a good mobility and have a good turret armor so he is very good but not op.

AMX 13 is a very good tank (the best of french nation in my mind but it's only because i really like light tank ;) ) with a good gun for his BR and he deserve his real mobility (he don't have his real reverse speed for the moment) and the gun should be more stabilize but when gaijin will correct these point it will be a very great tank (instead he is already a very good tank).

AMX 50 is not bad but not very interesting. He just have bad things from the lorraine (turret armor) and M4 (mobility and no reverse speed) but with no advantage and 6.7 BR.. :/

CA Lorraine is an epic joke... no armor, mobility good but enough in regard of the armor. Gun move extremly slow, the gun depression is not good and the reload is really too long.... this tank should have around 9 sec reload when he is full spaded....

 

 

Tier 5 :

 

AMX 50 surbaissé : not bad but not good. It depend a lot of the map. interesting tank anyway and can be pretty fun to use

AMX 50 foch : i don't like so much Tank destroyer and this one is not so good too... he have the same trouble than the CA Lorraine. Huge reload is sometimes hard to deal with and you don't have any reverse speed... You have armor but only on the front and armor don't mean a lot of things when you face some tanks with Heat-FS or APFSDS....

 

AMX30 1972 : just a joke... Thx to gaijin for useless HEAT ammo... the rest of the tank is interesting.

AMX30 DCA (AA) : not bad for an AA

AMX 13-90 : very bad tank. One of the most dispointing in the french tree for me... The trouble is coming from HEAT-FS. This ammo work better when you shoot on the front of an ennemy tank. This ammo work very bad on the flank.. but AMX 13 is a weak light tank his gameplay is to take flank... So the concept the AMX-13 don't work with HEAT-FS.... this tank could be really more interesting with an APDS even  at only 250 mm of penetration...

 

 

Tier 6 :

 

AMX 30B2 : HEAT stock... very good idea against some tanks are well protected for...

AMX 13-HOT : not bad but only because the 75 mm even with APC can deal dammage on flank. But AMX 13 don't have enough mobility in regard of MBT you face like KPZ or MBT and make this tank pretty useless on the battelfield.

 

 

So Tier 1 and 6 : don't play france

Tier 2 : if you like US tank

Tier 5 : can be intersting if you like some of them

Tier 3 : very good and you can have a lot of fun with french tank

Tier 4 : the best tier for french tank.

 

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15 hours ago, Arekuruyoni said:

So Tier 1 and 6 : don't play france

Tier 2 : if you like US tank

Tier 5 : can be intersting if you like some of them

Tier 3 : very good and you can have a lot of fun with french tank

Tier 4 : the best tier for french tank.

Salut Arek,

Mostly agree with you except for the Foch (comparing it with the paper thin CA Lorraine is a bit unfair). But I like mobile SPG as I used to play a lot the SU-85. I am sure that if you play the AMX-50 Surbaissé a bit more, you will start appreciating it as it is actually a deadly tank (engine/transmission improves its performance a lot). AMX-30 DCA is honestly the best and most versatile AA in the 7.0-7.7 BR range. The ZSU-57-2 (a bad plane killer but an excellent tank killer) stands no chance against it because of the very fast firing rate of the DCA (I have a 4-0 records against it: EDIT: 6-0 now!)

Edited by No_Camping
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As we already talked about I don't know from where you got this idea :

 

" Historically, the first two were competing prototypes in preparation of the Franco-German tank, which did not happen after Germany left the project following France itself leaving NATO (AMX 30 and Leopard 1 were the ultimate result of this split). "

 

This is wrong.

 

It was the EuroPanzer tank project where both countries disagree on which lead to the creation of AMX-30 and Leopard 1.

 

Porsche prototype :

proto_a1.jpg

 

Henschel / Rheinmetall prototype

proto_b1.jpg

 

Some of the french prototypes (from the least to the most advanced) :

german_001.jpgc8df7edda9f6t.jpg

french_version_Europanzer.jpg

AMX30%20prototype%2027.jpg

Edited by OpticalGaming
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15 hours ago, No_Camping said:

Salut Arek,

Mostly agree with you except for the Foch (comparing it with the paper thin CA Lorraine is a bit unfair). But I like mobile SPG as I used to play a lot the SU-85. I am sure that if you play the AMX-50 Surbaissé a bit more, you will start appreciating it as it is actually a deadly tank (engine/transmission improves its performance a lot). AMX-30 DCA is honestly the best and most versatile AA in the 7.0-7.7 BR range. The ZSU-57-2 (a bad plane killer but an excellent tank killer) stands no chance against it because of the very fast firing rate of the DCA (I have a 4-0 records against it: EDIT: 6-0 now!)

 

My AMX50 is already full and i don't like this tank so much... pretty useless on some map in RB (because he have a lack of mobility when you compare with Léopard) and he is too big. This tank depend at 100% if you have a city map or an open field. On city the tank is very good and can make a very great work. On open field like Sinaï or Maginot Line AMX50 loose a lot of influence on the match.

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7 minutes ago, Arekuruyoni said:

 

My AMX50 is already full and i don't like this tank so much... pretty useless on some map in RB (because he have a lack of mobility when you compare with Léopard) and he is too big. This tank depend at 100% if you have a city map or an open field. On city the tank is very good and can make a very great work. On open field like Sinaï or Maginot Line AMX50 loose a lot of influence on the match.

Not really, it simply plays differently depending on the map, on open field it's a Deadly sniper, in city map, it's a Deadly flanker brawler. It's better than M103 and Conqueror in all department but armor.

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30 minutes ago, Tantor57 said:

Not really, it simply plays differently depending on the map, on open field it's a Deadly sniper, in city map, it's a Deadly flanker brawler. It's better than M103 and Conqueror in all department but armor.

 

exaclty what i said.... you have a lot of tank better for make sniping work at this BR. They will make it better than AMX50 that's why i said this tank loose a lot of influence in open field. He is not useless but you can't be as good as a lot of tank he can have to face or on his side...

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7 minutes ago, Arekuruyoni said:

 

exaclty what i said.... you have a lot of tank better for make sniping work at this BR. They will make it better than AMX50 that's why i said this tank loose a lot of influence in open field. He is not useless but you can't be as good as a lot of tank he can have to face or on his side...

It's still the best 7.7 all rounder tank if you ask me, only the T54-47 might be better simply because of it's powerful armor.

 

AMX 50 is only worse than the Leopard when it comes to moving around real quick and yet is not really far behind. Armor on all 7.7 heavy is now redundant due to HEATFS and some APDS shells. AMX 50 is simply a big medium with a very big gun, it really is not a heavy and was not even conceived as such. So it should be played accordingly. I played the tank on all maps and all game mode and i manage a K/D of slightly over 2:1, I could very well push it over 3:1 but it would require me to play it more passively which this tank is not designed for. Regardless it's an absolute devastator and, from experience, people learnt to prioritize Killing these instead of M103 or Conqueror because these are pupies next to the Surbaisse when it comes to the damage they can inflict to the ennemy team.

 

Then again, i Watch your YouTube channel and i know you're a very experienced player just like I am and i agree partially with you on the fact that the gun migh fall a bit short at long distance especially against the russian but all in all even opened maps are not the bane of these tanks.

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4 hours ago, Arekuruyoni said:

exaclty what i said.... you have a lot of tank better for make sniping work at this BR.

I guess I like it a lot because I am not much of sniper as you could guess from my in-game nickname! :017:
And on Maginot, I go to C in the city first (the AMX-30 DCA is also deadly there), then to central B, both places where the Surbaissé excels. By the way, I much prefer the location of C in AB than in RB... In Sinai, I like the stones to the east or the rocky area between A and B+C. Both perfect places for the Surbaissé (and many tanks).


And anyway, every time I start snipping and kill someone, my victim sends me a message like "No_Camping, really? u r a f.ucking camper no.ob; I'll kill ur sorry a.ss in 1v1 u coward sh.it", or the Russian equivalent...
It's about changing my style of play (as you very rightly mention, that clearly conditions what one would consider as his/her favorite tanks) or my nickname... Or just leaving it at that!

Edited by No_Camping
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2 hours ago, Tantor57 said:

It's still the best 7.7 all rounder tank if you ask me, only the T54-47 might be better simply because of it's powerful armor.

 

AMX 50 is only worse than the Leopard when it comes to moving around real quick and yet is not really far behind. Armor on all 7.7 heavy is now redundant due to HEATFS and some APDS shells. AMX 50 is simply a big medium with a very big gun, it really is not a heavy and was not even conceived as such. So it should be played accordingly. I played the tank on all maps and all game mode and i manage a K/D of slightly over 2:1, I could very well push it over 3:1 but it would require me to play it more passively which this tank is not designed for. Regardless it's an absolute devastator and, from experience, people learnt to prioritize Killing these instead of M103 or Conqueror because these are pupies next to the Surbaisse when it comes to the damage they can inflict to the ennemy team.

 

Then again, i Watch your YouTube channel and i know you're a very experienced player just like I am and i agree partially with you on the fact that the gun migh fall a bit short at long distance especially against the russian but all in all even opened maps are not the bane of these tanks.

 

I mannaged to have a K/D of 3:1 (edit : 4:1 i was not sure so i checked :p) with him anyway i'm still thinking he is very boring to play on Open field. This part depend on each player because we all have our own playing style. Mine is more in mobility and be sneeky. Surbaissé is not good for that so this can make me not like this tank. In other way i agree his gun can be very devastating when you use it correctly. Easier to use the gun in city because of close fire (turret rotation speed help a lot the tank in this kind of match) and you have more protection.

The armor i'm agree this don't mean a lot when you are facing APDS or Heat-FS but if you take a tank like the Conqueror he is pretty safe from russian gun in the turret. AMX50 is not. :/ when you face a Tier 4 like the Tiger II(H) he can destroy you. So yeah armor is not the best way to win but it can help a lot in 6.7-7.7.

 

And many people want destroy AMX first because he is easier to destroy. ^^ 80 % people on this game will begin with destroying the easiest one and don't care about the most dangerous...

Edited by Arekuruyoni
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4 hours ago, OpticalGaming said:

As we already talked about I don't know from where you got this idea :

 

" Historically, the first two were competing prototypes in preparation of the Franco-German tank, which did not happen after Germany left the project following France itself leaving NATO (AMX 30 and Leopard 1 were the ultimate result of this split). "

Yes, I forgot to drop this part. Thanks.
By the way, SpartanFR tells me that stabilizers started to be installed on AMX-30 in 1971 in the French army (his uncle was a AMX-30 driver and seems to clearly remember the introduction of stabilizers "1 voie" then). Yet I only find such reference on the AMX 30 sold to Venezuela. Do you have any info/reference about the first introduction of stabilizers on French AMX-30?

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I think we can all agree on one thing; the French reserves/low tiers need a rework. They are seriously uncompetitive as of now and it's a real chore to grind through all of them. Reducing the reload can be a start, as can taking the high-penetration ammo away from the German tanks at that tier, since they make armour irrelevant and this essentially kills anything that sacrifices most characteristics for armour, like the French ones do. Unhistorical too, since German tanks often struggled with the armour of French tanks. The S35's armour needs to be fixed as well if this tank is ever going to live up to its historical reputation.

 

That brings me onto the B1's. Both are excellent damage sponges. Their guns aren't anything to write home about, the 47 has a long reload and doesn't deal a lot of damage, and the hull gun is hard to get on target. Once again, the real problem is Germans spamming HEAT and negating the armour, nothing else of any nation penetrates it nearly as easily, whereas they can load up the HEAT and lolpen it in pretty much anywhere. Once again, I reiterate my suggestion that these rounds be taken out. Other tanks should be able to penetrate if they use skill and aim for weakspots (like you do with most other heavy tanks), since they are supposed to have good armour. That's as far as I have gotten thus far. Looking forward to the 4.7 deck though, it does look quite good.

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5 hours ago, HighPriestOfKek said:

I think we can all agree on one thing; the French reserves/low tiers need a rework.

Oh yeah. SOMUA 35 armor and ammo are wrong in the game, which does not render justice to that tank which was supposed to be the best of the mid 30s'. All low BR reload times are simply arbitrary (high) and unrelated to those in real life (typically 15 shots/min). Reload times above BR 3.3 are generally good, but some tanks (gee, the AMX-30 again, which is so badly modeled)  have again strange data in the game.

The low tier problem has really to be fixed as I do not see the interest of Gaijin in disgusting people from grinding and spading their French tanks (all my tanks are fully spaded, except 4 Tier 5 & 6, but I am not sure everybody will have my patience...)

Edited by No_Camping
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  • No_Camping changed the title to A review of French tanks (Updated 6/January/2021)
  • No_Camping changed the title to A review of French tanks (Updated 24/March/2021)
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