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[US] A1E , A1H ( tri Service Attack Aircraft) & A1J Skyraiders


kev2go
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Would you Like to See these Post Korean Skyraiders added?  

139 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you Like to see the A1H ( AD6) added?

    • Yes!
      135
    • NO
      4
  2. 2. Would you Like to see the A1J ( AD7) Added?

    • Yes
      92
    • Yes but only Premium ( due to much smaller production numbers and because not much different from the A1H)
      40
    • No
      7
  3. 3. Which Camoflauge Schemes would you like to see for the A1E & A1H?

    • US Navy ( white/light Greyish scheme)
      13
    • USMC ( same base scheme as Navy but with "Marines" label)
      11
    • US Air Force SEA camo
      6
    • All of the Above!
      107
  4. 4. Would you like to See A1E (AD5) skyraider?

    • YeS, would love a 2 seater skyraider.
      90
    • No
      13


This Suggestion is to Expand on the current  US attacker lineup by adding additional skyraider(s). 

 

 

 

A-1H_VA-215_CVA-31_1967.jpg

 

 

The Cockpit (A1H & J )

 

Dsc00996.jpg

 

 

 

8d4c23f5333a3112548e7b878734d404.jpg

 

A1E Cockpit 

 

Spoiler

130305-F-DW547-001.JPG

 

 

General characteristics ( A1H)

 

Crew: One

Length: 38 ft 10 in (11.84 m)

Wingspan: 50 ft 0¼ in (15.25 m)

Height: 15 ft 8¼ in (4.78 m)

Wing area: 400.3 ft² (37.19 m²)

Empty weight: 11,968 lb (5,429 kg)

Loaded weight: 18,106 lb (8,213 kg)

Max. takeoff weight: 25,000 lb (11,340 kg)

Powerplant: 1 × Wright R-3350-26WA radial engine, 2,700 hp (2,000 kW)

Performance

 

Maximum speed: 322 mph (280 kn, 518 km/h) at 18,000 ft (5,500 m)

Cruise speed: 198 mph (172 kn, 319 km/h)

Range: 1,316 mi (1,144 nmi, 2,115 km)

Service ceiling: 28,500 ft (8,685 m)

Rate of climb: 2,850 ft/min (14.5 m/s)

Wing loading: 45 lb/ft² (220 kg/m²)

Power/mass: 0.15 hp/lb (250 W/kg)

 

 

Armament

 

Guns: 4 × 20 mm (0.79 in) AN/M3 autocannon

Hardpoints: 15 external hardpoints with a capacity of 8,000 lb (3,600 kg) and provisions to carry combinations of:

Other: bombs, torpedoes, mine dispensers, unguided rockets, and gun pods.[24]

 

5M8JcPy.png

 

 

 

cKiWUnq.png

 

 

cKiWUnq.png

 

uFckj3N.png

 

 

Background

 

The AD-6 was an improved version of the AD-4B single-seat attack aircraft fitted with special equipment for low-level attack bombing and the improved types of bomb racks first used on the AD-5. A jettisonable canopy was incorporated, and a hydraulic tailhook was fitted. Increased armor was added for the protection of the pilot.

 

 

713 examples of the AD-6 were built, and they were built at the same time as the "wide body" AD-5. However, the AD-6 never saw any action in the Korean conflict.

 

The First AD6's were accepted for service with the US navy in June of 1954. In September of 1962, surviving AD-6's were re designated A-1H.

 

Summary of Post  redesignation , 1962 + service History

 

As American involvement in the Vietnam War began, the A-1 Skyraider was still the medium attack aircraft in many carrier air wings, although it was planned to be replaced by the A-6A Intruder as part of the general switch to jet aircraft. Skyraiders from Constellation and Ticonderoga participated in the first U.S. Navy strikes against North Vietnam on 5 August 1964 as part of Operation Pierce Arrow in response to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, striking against fuel depots at Vinh, with one Skyraider from Ticonderoga damaged by anti-aircraft fire, and a second from Constellation shot down, killing its pilot.

 

 During the war, U.S. Navy Skyraiders ( which were A1H's)  shot down two North Vietnamese Air Force (NVAF) Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17 jet fighters: one on 20 June 1965, a victory shared by Lieutenant Clinton B. Johnson and Lieutenant, junior grade Charles W. Hartman III of VA-25 and one on 9 October 1966 by LTJG William T. Patton of VA-176. Using their cannons, this was the first gun kill of Vietnam.

 

As they were released from U.S. Navy service, Skyraiders were introduced into the South Vietnamese Air Force (VNAF). They were also used by the USAF to perform one of the Skyraider's most famous roles: the "Sandy" helicopter escort on combat rescues. USAF Major Bernard F. Fisher piloted an A-1E on 10 March 1966 mission for which he was awarded the Medal of Honor for rescuing Major "Jump" Myers at A Shau Special Forces Camp. USAF Colonel William A. Jones, III piloted an A-1H on 1 September 1968 mission for which he was awarded the Medal of Honor. In that mission, despite damage to his aircraft and suffering serious burns, he returned to his base and reported the position of a downed U.S. airman.

 

After November 1972, all A-1s in U.S. service in Southeast Asia were transferred to the South Vietnamese Air Force (VNAF) and their roles taken over by the subsonic LTV A-7 Corsair II. The Skyraider in Vietnam pioneered the concept of tough, survivable aircraft with long loiter times and large ordnance loads. The USAF lost 201 Skyraiders to all causes in Southeast Asia, while the Navy lost 65 to all causes. Of the 266 lost A-1s, five were shot down by surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), and three were shot down in air-to-air combat; two by North Vietnamese MiG-17s.

 

Some info on re designated AC.

 

http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/1962redesignations.html

 

A1E

 

3_15.jpg

 

Spoiler

 

 

The designation AD-5 was initially reserved for a proposed late-1948 version of the Skyraider to be powered by a turbo-compound version of the R-3350 engine. Several other aircraft of the era were also being considered for such an engine, including the B-36 and the B-50. However, the turbocompound engine was so heavy and large that it would have required a major airframe redesign, and since the production run of the Skyraider was thought to be nearing its end, the project was not proceeded with.

 

The designation AD-5 was used instead for a December 1949 proposal for an aircraft which would combine the antisubmarine hunter-killer role in a single airframe and with side-by-side seating for two crew members. In order to accommodate the side-by side seating, the aircraft was lengthened by 1 feet 11 inches and the upper fuselage was broadened. The dive brakes on the fuselage sides were deleted, but the ventral dive brake was retained. Improved and larger underwing bomb racks were installed.  The leading edges of the underwing racks were moved further forward, their leading edges extending well forward of the wing leading edge. Provisions were made for a new and more sturdy centerline pylon. The wing armament of 4 20-mm cannon was made standard. An air scoop was added to the leading edge of the vertical fin.

 

The most noticeable change was the wider and longer cockpit area, with side-by-side seating for two crew members. The two crew members were seated underneath a much larger canopy which slid to the rear. The area immediately behind the cockpit was covered by additional transparent areas, which were often tinted a deep blue. Additional crew members could be carried here, but the area was usually occupied with electronics.

 

The prototype AD-5 was created by converting AD-4 BuNo 124006. It lacked the radar and electronics planned for the production AD-5, and was first flown on August 17, 1951.  It was followed by 212 production aircraft. Although originally intended as an antisubmarine hunter-killer aircraft, most AD-5s were operated as two-seat day attack aircraft. On many missions, the planes were flown as single-seaters.

 

The aircraft could be fitted with field conversion kits to to make it possible for it to fulfill several different roles. Among these were medical evacuation with four casualty litters, VIP transport with four backward-facing seats, twelve-seat troop transport, utility cargo transport capable of carrying up to 2000 pounds of cargo, photographic reconnaissance, and target towing.

 

In 1956, the Navy suggested that that the AD-5 be converted into a midair refuelling tanker. However, a Douglas study showed that it would be impractical to store a lot of extra internal fuel inside the airframe of the AD-5 because of weight distribution problems. Instead, Douglas engineers came up with an idea of an external fuel storage package containing a 300-gallon tank plus a hydraulic pump, a hydraulically-driven hose reel, and a 50-foot refuelling hose with a drogue. However, this system was very rarely used on the Skyraider, but was later used in the A4D-2 Skyhawk and the LTV A-7 Corsair II.

 

In September of 1962, surviving AD-5s were redesignated A-1E when used in the attack role and UA-1E when used in the utility role.

 

 

 

 

A1J

 

Spoiler

 

The A1J is very similar

 

"It differed from the AD-6 in having an R-3350-26WB engine instead of a R-3350-26WA. It also had a strengthened undercarriage, more robust engine mountings, and stronger wing outer panels.  Otherwise, it was much the same as the AD-6 which preceded it."

 

Natops Manual covers Both Versions due to such similarities  to the A1H. However only 72 of AD7's were built with the last ones being delivered in 1957.

 

 

 

 

The Reason for these version is to IN part expand the attacker lineup and add another Sky raider ( Or two) 

 

these versions include bigger bomb loads, more modern  and more diverse Ordinance load outs.

 

 

IN addition to 2.75 inch Hydras the A1H and A1J would get 5 inch FFAR rockets as well as modern Modern bombs. Instead of Antiquated Box fin bombs of ww2 vintage that ad2 and AD4 have ( AnM64, An M65) , these version would get the M117, the Mk80 series of bombs ( Mk81, Mk82, Mk82 Snake eye, Mk83, Mk84) as well as CBU Cluster bombs,  as well as External gunpods to name the most notable examples.

 

What makes the A1H more unique over the earlier skyraiders is the the fact that it is a Tri service plane.  IT wasnt jsut used by the US navy or USMC, it was also adopted by the US air force Just prior to Vietnam war for Close Air support platform to meet the armY needs of a platform to Loiter around to provide cover for ground forces. At this time Piston aircraft like the Skyraider offered the necessary Loiter time, that much less fuel efficient jet driven aircraft did not.

 

 

 

"As American involvement in VietNam began to increase, the USAF found out that it lacked an aircraft that was useful in the close combat that was taking place with increasing frequency in that nation. In April of 1962, a Special Warfare Center was established at Eglin AFB in Florida to test various aircraft that might be useful in this role. B-26s and T-28s were tested for suitability in the counter-insurgency role, as well as a couple of Navy Skyraiders. The results with the Skyraider were sufficiently favorable"

 

AS such Instead of just Plain White Scheme that was in use by the US navy/ USMC at the time this would allow the much more interesting SEA  ( South East Asia) Paint Scheme camo that the US air force used.

 

SEA USAF camo 

 

 

Skyraider_A-1H-J_1969_-_00000033_-_USAF.

 

 

also another UNique skin (SEA based  but with a Shark mouth ) that could be made available by golden eagles or unlock-able by Achievement.

 

f14dfc93daeff549cbc536903fba29e2.jpg

 

 

 

Primary Sources

 

US Navy A1H& A1J NATOPS Manual , March 15th, 1965.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kxlKrnbOdYCJVoS4KMO73vnoZPlBFcQJ/view?ts=5a4cdb91

 

US Air Force A1E/G/H/J Manual ,  April 30th , 1971

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dXtadfpXhSxrN-pzE3yDyxtK1z5vEvDH/view

 

 

A1H & A1J SAC

 

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/douglas/ad-skyraider/navair-00-110aa1-5-a-1h-and-j-skyraider-standard-aircraft-characteristics-1-july-1967.html

 

 

Secondary Sources

 

http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/attractions/aircraft-exhibits/item/?item=a-1h_skyraider

 

http://www.joebaugher.com/usattack/newa1_22.html

 

http://www.joebaugher.com/usattack/newa1_23.html

 

http://www.joebaugher.com/usattack/newa1_23.html

 

http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/1962redesignations.html

 

 

Edited by kev2go
Updated with USAF manuals for their skyraiders to compliment the US NAvy Natops A1 manual
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On 1/3/2018 at 4:43 PM, *Baconator100012 said:

Hell yes! since the Ad-4 is technically not correct(doesn't have Hydras) i would like to see these replace the AD-4.

 

yea i submitted a Bug report on that. 

 

 

Its been confirmed as inccorect by a technical mod and will get passed to devepers for  a Fix ( removal likely of hydras)

 

 

But AD6  and/ or AD7 will be better than a AD4 irregardless.  Apart from Rocket pods such as 2.75 inch hydras in LAu 3's this thing has a pretty long list of stuff it can carry ( included in Armament OP)

 

Most notably it will have MK80 series of bombs as an alternative to the ww2 Vintage box fin bombs, an Option to carry multiple  Suu-11 ( 7.62 m134 Miniguns) external Gun pods. as well as a whole other array of specialized muntions like Cluster bombs. 

 

Maybe to further differentiate it, Gajin would consider giving it better payload options like allowing up to 500 lb bombs on the wing racks.

 

 

Either way to Sum up there are 3 reason to want the A1H.

 

1) larger and more diverse payloads.

 

2) Historical Signfiicance, Used by 3 service. For those who complain there are too many US navy attackers this Skyraider can be used represent both USN USMC, and the USAF , and saw combat in vietnam. More mass produced than AD4. 

 

3) Larger Variety of Camouflage Schemes

 

In essense the AD6 ( A1H) is arguably the most iconic and definitive production of the skyraider Series.

Edited by kev2go
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7 hours ago, kev2go said:

 

yea i submitted a Bug report on that. 

 

Its been confirmed as inccorect by a technical mod and will get passed to devepers for  a Fix ( removal likely of hydras)

 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaa, what a story Maarrrrkkk! 

 

 

seriously..i hope they replace the hydra with something that can kill tanks, can't stand the stupid HVARs.

 

7 hours ago, kev2go said:

 

But AD6  and/ or AD7 will be better than a AD4 irregardless.  Apart from Rocket pods such as 2.75 inch hydras in LAu 3's this thing has a pretty long list of stuff it can carry ( included in Armament OP)

 

good.. don't really have anything that kill tanks.. bombs are a pain for me.

 

7 hours ago, kev2go said:

Most notably it will have MK80 series of bombs as an alternative to the ww2 Vintage box fin bombs, an Option to carry multiple  Suu-11 ( 7.62 m134 Miniguns) external Gun pods. as well as a whole other array of specialized muntions like Cluster bombs. 

 

Maybe to further differentiate it, Gajin would consider giving it better payload options like allowing up to 500 lb bombs on the wing racks.

 

 

Either way to Sum up there are 3 reason to want the A1H.

 

1) larger and more diverse payloads.

 

2) Historical Signfiicance, Used by 3 service. For those who complain there are too many US navy attackers this Skyraider can be used represent both USN USMC, and the USAF , and saw combat in vietnam. More mass produced than AD4. 

 

3) Larger Variety of Camouflage Schemes

 

In essense the AD6 ( A1H) is arguably the most iconic and definitive production of the skyraider Series.

 

The more CAS, the better.. im hoping they will fix the A-26 loadout though.. that is a great WW2 CAS.

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sorry for misunderstangding ur opinion in that topic.But remove Hydra70 is not a good way to solve AD-4 problem,because some players already spend time/golden eagle to unlock Hydra70.

Maybe gaijin will change the name AD-4 to AD-6 directly,just like what happen on F6F-5

 

8 hours ago, kev2go said:

 

yea i submitted a Bug report on that. 

 

Its been confirmed as inccorect by a technical mod and will get passed to devepers for  a Fix ( removal likely of hydras)

 

 

But AD6  and/ or AD7 will be better than a AD4 irregardless.  Apart from Rocket pods such as 2.75 inch hydras in LAu 3's this thing has a pretty long list of stuff it can carry ( included in Armament OP)

 

Most notably it will have MK80 series of bombs as an alternative to the ww2 Vintage box fin bombs, an Option to carry multiple  Suu-11 ( 7.62 m134 Miniguns) external Gun pods. as well as a whole other array of specialized muntions like Cluster bombs. 

 

Maybe to further differentiate it, Gajin would consider giving it better payload options like allowing up to 500 lb bombs on the wing racks.

 

 

Either way to Sum up there are 3 reason to want the A1H.

 

1) larger and more diverse payloads.

 

2) Historical Signfiicance, Used by 3 service. For those who complain there are too many US navy attackers this Skyraider can be used represent both USN USMC, and the USAF , and saw combat in vietnam. More mass produced than AD4. 

 

3) Larger Variety of Camouflage Schemes

 

In essense the AD6 ( A1H) is arguably the most iconic and definitive production of the skyraider Series.

 

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8 hours ago, RRmerlin66 said:

sorry for misunderstangding ur opinion in that topic.But remove Hydra70 is not a good way to solve AD-4 problem,because some players already spend time/golden eagle to unlock Hydra70.

Maybe gaijin will change the name AD-4 to AD-6 directly,just like what happen on F6F-5

 

 

 

They can't just change the name.  Ad6 has a bit different interior cockpit.  ( most notably LABs toss boming system in the place of the removed radar scope with a new gunsight with a depressive knob at the side for different attack angles. ) Plus has a whole nother list of munitions that the ad4 didn't have. The reason it couldn't mount hydra was because it was using aero 14a racks which weren't compatibe. Ad5 plus used aero 14d and d2 (e) racks/launchers on the wings which could use hydra.

Edited by kev2go
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I would love to see a full skyraider line in game. But let's face it, the US Tree is already well stocked with CAS planes. Britain needs some love in that department. Or to have some of there light bombers or strike fighters reclassified as attackers, so they can be used for the attacker only Tasks.

 

I support, but it's not the most pressing plane that needs to be added.

Edited by __Animal__
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8 minutes ago, __Animal__ said:

I would love to see a full skyraider line in game. But let's face it, the US Tree is already well stocked with CAS planes. Britain needs some love in that department. Or to have some of there light bombers or strike fighters reclassified as attackers, so they can bee used for the attacker only Tasks.

 

I support, but it's not the most pressing plane that needs to be added.

 

I strongly agree with this as much as I am a nut case for ground attack aircraft the US is wayyy ahead of everyone in terms of aircraft with these capability I feel that other nations should get filled out first before we get more for the US. But +1 anyways 

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2 hours ago, __Animal__ said:

I would love to see a full skyraider line in game. But let's face it, the US Tree is already well stocked with CAS planes. Britain needs some love in that department. Or to have some of there light bombers or strike fighters reclassified as attackers, so they can bee used for the attacker only Tasks.

 

I support, but it's not the most pressing plane that needs to be added.

 

Well technically the FIrst 2 Skyraider Arent Dedicated CAS planes. They were Designed  primarily in mind as Torpedo/ Dive bombers for the US navy, with Top role being Anti Shipping, followed BY other attack roles such as Interdiction and Tactical bombing for mid to long ranges ( for the time period) . CLose Air support  one of the roles but being last on the list. the Aircraft's characteristics happened to make it well suited  to keep around for Close air support into the jet era   since Jet aircraft did not have the Loiter Time to Stick around long enough, and because they could still carry lots of ordinance.

 

Ad6 was the version that was optimized for lower level attack  along with NUclear strike capabilities so the Navy could compete with the US airforce's nuke strike capabilities ( LABS system and compatible "Special Stores), especially since by the 60s that point those other Roles such as Anti Shipping and Interdiction were surpassed by both the A4 skyhawk and A6 Intruder.

 

 

A1H is probably the most important of the Skyraider Variants . People complain that there are too many naval attackers. A1H is a tri service aircraft. ( was in use by US navy, USMC and US Airforce)  Not often do you get a chance to include a plane that was in use by 3  important branches of the US armed forces. 

 

 

After all most nations have multiple versions of Iconic and Mass produced Aircraft. 

 

 

Edited by kev2go
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21 minutes ago, kev2go said:

A1H is probably the most important of the Skyraider Variants . People complain that there are too many naval attackers. A1H is a tri service aircraft. ( was in use by US navy, USMC and US Airforce)  Not often do you get a chance to include a plane that was in use by 3  important branches of the US armed forces. 

 

 

Along with being an aircraft that served several decades;  so gimme more skyraiders +1

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Some Footage Of  US Air force sky-raiders flying "sandy mission.s

 

Combat Search and Rescue Support for a downed pilot. ( also a look at armament loadup pre startup.)

 

 

Edited by kev2go
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On 1/4/2018 at 6:12 PM, IOC_000 said:

Along with being an aircraft that served several decades;  so gimme more skyraiders +1

 

Along with being the First aircraft of the Vietnam war credited with the First Gun Kill ;) ( 2 pilots shared credit in shooting down a Mig17F)

 

 

Edited by kev2go
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I say yes to both! Mainly cause of the below image.

aaaf8acb21b6f1efec80cd72a1dc58f4.jpg

84 Rockets, + 18 250lb or 500lb bombs (can't tell from the pic, though I'm guessing the latter).

Edited by VengefulChipmunk
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11 hours ago, VengefulChipmunk said:

I say yes to both! Mainly cause of the below image.

aaaf8acb21b6f1efec80cd72a1dc58f4.jpg

84 Rockets, + 18 250lb or 500lb bombs (can't tell from the pic, though I'm guessing the latter).

 

 

That armament is from a display. Dont think this was ever used in combat . Those are Mk82's 500 lbs.

 

Edit:

 

ACtually Even Looking at the manual ( armament excerpts) state only 1 bomb on those hardpoint where the images shows 6. 

 

What would be common  would be to instead have Bombs up to 500 LBS across the Wings where the Rocket pods are on those Aero 14D Or E Racks, with just a few Pods mixed in. 

 

 

Edited by kev2go
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7 minutes ago, kev2go said:

 

 

That armament is from a display phto and was not common.

 

Given how gajin already has refrained from giving max Payload to AD2 - AD4 i doubt we will See X6 Mk82s  with TER racks across 4  with Hyrdas as a Cherry on Top.

 

That being said. with that kind of loadout AD would need an Airstart. Seriously your not getting off WT short Dirt airstrips with that weight.

There is always hope :D

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19 minutes ago, VengefulChipmunk said:

There is always hope :D

 

actually it appears no.

 

relooking over ARmament section its not actually a standard feature. Its must have demo only since the Manual does not show an Option to carry more 500 lb sized bombs. Despite the 3 Stations allowing store weight up to 3000 and 3600 pounds respectively.

 

 

 

 

Quoted from my OP of this thread.

 

On 1/2/2018 at 11:20 PM, kev2go said:

 

 

5M8JcPy.png

 

 

 

cKiWUnq.png

 

 

cKiWUnq.png

 

uFckj3N.png

 

 

 

 

 

The only armament it can officialy carry in bundles up to X 6 are small 100 pound frag and GP bomb of 250 LBS max. The AN/M57A1. Its a ww2 bomb but retrofitted with a Conical Fin. ( A1 designation)

 

va25specbomb-012b.jpg

 

 

c8nTEQV.png

 

 

 

 

Edited by kev2go
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  • kev2go changed the title to [US] A1E , A1H ( tri Service Attack Aircraft) & A1J Skyraiders

whislt not directly Skyraider  related it is a  survivor story of someone who did. Thought this would be worth sharing.

 

A german born , American NAval  skyraider pilot shot down in 1966 on a Strike mission into LAOS  and was the first  power and  of only 3  POW to ever  succesffuly escape from behind enemy lines in SEA theatre.

 

http://www.historynet.com/dieter-denglers-great-escape-from-laotian-pow-camp.htm

 

also made into a documentary  

 

 

as well as a drama film 

 

 

 

Edited by kev2go
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whilst wont be included in war thnder for balance reasons but further expanding on wa given a footnote within my OP of the topic:

 

 the AD6(A1h)  and AD7 (A1J) were capable of carrying "special stores" a euphemistic  term for tactical nuclear bombs,to be used in conjunction with the LABS toss bombing systems.

 

and interesting article of how it would be hypothetical used in ww3.

 

https://www.warbirdforum.com/toss.htm

 

Edited by kev2go
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