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Prototypes AMX-56 Leclerc Ares / Leclerc BAYARD (1987)

Prototypes AMX-56 Leclerc (1987)  

479 members have voted

  1. 1. do you think we can see the prototype of the AMX-56 Leclerc?

    • Yes. I support this Suggestion.
    • No. I dont support this Suggestion
  2. 2. What battle rating would you like to see?



Wow; a leclerc prototype..... The XM1's armor package is not even known (Those recently declassified documents don't show materials or thicknesses) So i'm saying no; just because it's a prototype of a modern MBT does not make the information any easier to get. 

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13 hours ago, dotEXCEL said:

to my knowledge only:

 

And that's composite armor just so you know, and not even the fiberglass layer kind. I also don't recall the idea that the Leclerc's composite is more suited to KE than SC ever being true (no pieve, your garbage sources do not count), as back when I thought it were the case, a bigger tank nerd than I corrected me on the spot. It's rather unclear what the protection requirements of the Leclerc were other than assuming relative parity to the M1A2 and Leopard 2A5, and that's just 100% pure speculation. And since we're talking about even sketchier protection requirements than the M1 Abrams here...

 

Yeah that might just be a worse tank to implement than the M1 Abrams and Leopard 2. I haven't found any concrete numbers stating even the most general protection values other than LoS. But in the case of LoS, one can enjoy the magnificent gun mantlet that can be penetrated by autocannons.

Edited by Nope

sabaton_ (Posted )

There's not need to be so rude, if you don't like someone's comment just ignore it, but don't make this kind of flamme war, don't derail the thread
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21 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Even in the image you linked Sauber was agreeing that criticizing a lack of info is perfectly fine criticism (that apply easily to this suggestion). Just brushing it off as insignificant won't change the fact that that is a glaring issue with suggestions like these.

 

Saying that Gaijin might be able to a dig up a source somewhere somehow (with Gaijin's preponderance towards getting even things that are easy to source wrong, I'm not holding my breath on that one) doesn't excuse a suggestion from lacking that information.

thats why we have a open forum, ppl can add infos if they find some
 

25 minutes ago, Nope said:

oh btw why do people call it the amx-56 even if amx didnt exist in the late 1980s shouldnt it be giat leclerc or nexter leclerc

 

thats like calling an audi r8 an auto union r8

i think it the name kinda sticked AMX->GIAT->NEXTER... all the same company

Edited by dotEXCEL
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4 minutes ago, IOC_000 said:

Yeah he'll strut down to the nearest french military installation and totally be able to pay for state secrets......

no one was talking about real docs. get books about that tank, even if the values are estimates, it helps the suggestion

Spoiler

604454.jpg

look at the 2AV suggestion, i havent spotted the real values there eighter

 

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4 minutes ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

Yes, pay for government secrets... isn't that espionage or treason or something like that? There are no open primary sources about tanks like this (except for Russian tanks), they just don't exist for the public. You're never going to find that information any time soon, I doubt it will be declassified within the the next 20 years. 

in regartds to that: For example: Leo 2A5 are accessable in the german archieves, due to the fact that we wont use them anymore and upgrading currently to 2A7. You just cant take them with you (copy pages). thats the only catch

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On 21/12/2017 at 10:01 PM, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

Yes, pay for government secrets... isn't that espionage or treason or something like that? There are no open primary sources about tanks like this (except for Russian tanks), they just don't exist for the public. You're never going to find that information any time soon, I doubt it will be declassified within the the next 20 years. 

wow, you went to the French quest know about Leclerc's prototype? you very good in your argument. do not forget where I told you to go Musée des Blindés

Edited by pieve
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1 minute ago, dotEXCEL said:

no one was talking about real docs. get books about that tank, even if the values are estimates, it helps the suggestion

  Reveal hidden contents

604454.jpg

look at the 2AV suggestion, i havent spotted the real values there eighter

 

And i was against the 2AV for the same reasons; those estimates can't be collabrated with primary sources or anything else. And each book varies widely on the protection figures; which makes me extremely skeptical of their "Estimates"

 

3 minutes ago, pieve said:

My young man, where do you live?
Where do you get your source straight? of the federal army or Google?

Oh man i was at fort sill the other day giving an M1A1 an ultrasound /s But more seriously; both. On the older equipment you can find plenty of crew manuals and even decent diagrams from the fed; unlike these where no such things exist. 

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5 minutes ago, pieve said:

go Musée des Blindés

write an email, maybe? its easier than to book a flight to France

Edited by dotEXCEL
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4 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

no one was talking about real docs. get books about that tank, even if the values are estimates, it helps the suggestion

  Reveal hidden contents

604454.jpg

look at the 2AV suggestion, i havent spotted the real values there eighter

 

 

And that thread is pretty bad too, what's your point? 

 

5 minutes ago, pieve said:

My young man, where do you live?
Where do you get your source straight? of the federal army or Google?

 

To be fair, he did put down a legitimate location in his description... But that still doesn't change the fact that you're not going to get sources for the Leclerc from the Federal Army. 

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2 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

in regartds to that: For example: Leo 2A5 are accessable in the german archieves, due to the fact that we wont use them anymore and upgrading currently to 2A7. You just cant take them with you (copy pages). thats the only catch

Hmm; my dad did want to  take a trip to germany.

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3 minutes ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

And that thread is pretty bad too, what's your point? 

 

To be fair, he did put down a legitimate location in his description... But that still doesn't change the fact that you're not going to get sources for the Leclerc from the Federal Army. 

but of course, you're just a normal civilian in the world. Gaijin has researchers for this, and will pay money if need be

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Just now, pieve said:

but of course, you're just a normal civilian in the world. Gaijin has researchers for this, and will pay money if need be

and yet ppl still think that armour values of Ru-251 and MBT/ KPZ are correct.... remember that the KPZ armour should withstand 105mm apds from >700m? guess what it doesnt ingame.

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tbch here we will see these tanks at some point ingame, and im 100% sure without correct armour and pen values. can we do something against it? not really. is it better than 100% fictional tanks (looking at you WoT), yes ofc.

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Just now, Mercedes4321 said:

I'm just extrapolating your idea that a suggestion can exist for a vehicle even without important information or a good source to find them because "ppl can add infos if they find some".

To be fair that is gajins stance; they allow suggestions even without anything but basic information for the sole purpose of gathering it. I mean look at how many are open for some of the more dubious paper projects.

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12 minutes ago, IOC_000 said:

And yet the only way you know that are the primary sources available; if they had just (Somehow) bought the documents and no public sources were available to compare to then nothing would seem wrong. And the Ru-251 is meh.

doesnt change the fact that gaijin altered values for tanks to fit them to the game, into the current meta.

mhh... an example: Leo 2 (again). the researchers can look into the Values must alter them due to the request of KMW for lets say by 10% (but you, me dont know that %). now can you do bug reports on these values) no, only if you went to the archieves and look at the values yourself, and even then arent you allowed to publish them.... see where this is going?

Edited by dotEXCEL
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15 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

I'm just extrapolating your idea that a suggestion can exist for a vehicle even without important information or a good source to find them because "ppl can add infos if they find some".

yet we still talking about the Prototypes form the Leclerc. tanks which were given to a museum. and these guys can give you ''estimated'' values, better. another interessting path to go would be to find the old requirements for that project given by the French Army (e.g. must withstand X calibler at Xm range)

Edited by dotEXCEL
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9 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

doesnt change the fact that gaijin altered values for tanks to fit them to the game, into the current meta.

mhh... an example Leo 2 again. the researchers can look into the Values must alter them due to the request of KMW for example by 10%. now tell me, will you ever know that? no, only if you went to the archieves and look at the values yourself, and even then arent you allowed to publish them.... see where this is going?

But that still won't change the fact that what you are describing is impossible with publicly known vehicles; imagine if they reduced the thickness of the Tiger H1's frontal armor to 100MM while buffing the UFP of all the T-34's to 60MM. They would have hordes of people throwing sources and documents at them proving it wrong; along with massive backlash. That's my point; by having classified vehicles you remove the little influence players have. You remove the possibility of bug reporting; you remove any sense of realism and accountability from them. Despite the fact they have twisted history where they see fit (US ammo and Armor/Slope modifiers and APCR straight nerfs) We can still show them how full of **** they are.

 

With any classified/secret vehicles all we can do is nod and wave.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

And this is somehow acceptable that Gaijin just turns on their word and (original) Rule #1 to place a broken tank into the game and make money off it? If that's acceptable, I might as well curse in the forums and tell people not to play this game... oh wait... 

.... no no, please continue... jokes aside
what did you expect? WT will expand into that direction. WW2 stuff to add is getting less and less with every update, WW-Mode (sry but that one is a Stillbirth) Naval-forces is really not that great eighter and WW1 stuff are like 30 vehiecles total. so what should gaijin in your honest opinion do?

6 minutes ago, IOC_000 said:

But that still won't change the fact that what you are describing is impossible with publicly known vehicles; imagine if they reduced the thickness of the Tiger H1's frontal armor to 100MM while buffing the UFP of all the T-34's to 60MM. They would have hordes of people throwing sources and documents at them proving it wrong; along with massive backlash. That's my point; by having classified vehicles you remove the little influence players have. You remove the possibility of bug reporting; you remove any sense of realism and accountability from them. Despite the fact they have twisted history where they see fit (US ammo and Armor/Slope modifiers and APCR straight nerfs) We can still show them how full of **** they are.

 

With any classified/secret vehicles all we can do is nod and wave.

 

 

see there you have prove that the developer is wrong. in the other case, the dev can play around with values if a certain vehiecle is complety metabreaking

Edited by dotEXCEL
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10 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Do you actually have those infos?

its managable to find the old requriements like for every military project, you just need to dig a little bit around. pieve is still suggesting the Prototype here not the actual ''In Service'' tank
The Tank itself changed from its prototype stage to the final to the current version, so the old requirements do not apply anymore. iirc somewhere in 2014 they changed the materials for turret composite armour

Edited by dotEXCEL
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1 minute ago, dotEXCEL said:

.... no no, please continue... jokes aside
what did you expect? WT will expand into that direction. WW2 stuff to add is getting less and less with every update, WW-Mode (sry but that one is a Stillbirth) Naval-forces is really not that great eighter and WW1 stuff are like 30 vehiecles total. so what should gaijin in your honest opinion do?

Fix broken armor/Ammo values; redesign the engine to allow accurate Transonic and Supersonic flight. Make a massive push in advertising; get themselves positioned as a true alternative to WG IP's. I mean there are many more things that can be done; it's just this composite mania overcame everyone and saw it as invetiable. 

 

If people rode them nearly as hard for WWM as they did CMBT's it would look much better; that applies to a lot of things.

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1 minute ago, dotEXCEL said:

its managable to find the old requriements like for every military project, you just need to dig a little bit around.

Then go find them. If its manageable then go do it. Provide proof for your claims and actually do it.

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Guys, please stay on topic and avoid insulting each other because you disagree on certain points of the discussion. I have hidden several posts from this topic that contained unrelated content (gifs), insults and other off-topic content. Again, please keep the discussion clean, civil, on topic and within the forum rules. If you have personal issues - take it to PM. 

 

 

 

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