IJA Chi-Se  

562 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want to see the Chi-Se ingame?

    • Yes.
      281
    • No.
      281
  2. 2. What BR should the Chi-Se have?

    • 6.3
      114
    • 6.7
      66
    • 7.0 (Same as the Ho-Ri Production)
      70
    • 7.3
      52
    • I said no in the first question.
      260
  3. 3. Where should the Chi-Se be in the techtree?

    • Rank IV. After the ST-A1, before the Type 61.
      156
    • Rank V. After the Type 61, before the STB-1.
      31
    • Rank V. In the heavy tank line when the Japanese have one.
      105
    • I said no in the first question.
      270


Hello everyone, today I want to talk about the IJA Chi-Se.

 

568px-Chi_Se_diagram.jpg

The diagram here is older and as of now inaccurate. The Ho-Ri hull, while sloped, has a different side and rear design.

 

What we know so far:

Spoiler

As the Ho-Ri tank destroyer was accepted for production, Japan considered reusing its hull in building a set of heavy-medium tanks that could support the existing tanks in the field if needed. As the Chi-Ri was redesigned and the Model II turret was no longer used, the Japanese decided to reuse the prototype turret, bolt on a 120-125mm plate to the turret, and give it the new Experimental 105mm gun.

 

Spoiler

File:Chi-Ri single tray autoloader blueprint.jpg

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor chi ri tank

The model II turret is the turret shown above. This turret is on the Chi-Ri II we have ingame. The main reason this turret was well suited to mount the 105mm turret was because of it's large internal space.

Like we have ingame, this turret has a 75mm gun with a single tray autoloader. This took up a lot of space, therefore the turret was so big.

 

The Experimental 105mm gun would fit inside this turret with almost no problems.

 

By the end of the war, whilst all major components existed, the tank was never fully operational.

 

Armour layout:

Spoiler

V3Eb10Y.jpg

The image above does not include the add-on frontal turret armour.

 

Now this tank has a Ho-Ri chassis, and most likely the Production version to.

-So that's 75mm of armour on the lower glacis.

-120mm of armour on the upper glacis, wich is sloped at 70 degrees.

 

And for the turret:

-It's a Chi-Ri II turret, wich has 75mm of armour on the front, plus, the add on 120mm of armour. Making it a total of around 195mm! That's 45mm more then the Tiger II (H) turret!

 

Ingame:

Spoiler

joJWmqd1CjWlZfmtqsUwU-ZnqztM8KVklzRaOqNW

The image above uses the 105mm Production cannon, but the original Chi-Se drawing shows it has the 105mm experimental cannon.

 

Now with the removal of the large superstructre that the Ho-Ri has, but the added frontal turret armour, I would assume that the tanks performance would stay rather the same as the Ho-Ri Production.

But this tank has the Experimental 105mm when you look on the drawings. So this vehicle would be rather hard to balance.

This tank would strugle badly against tanks like the IS-3, 4, 6. But then again, the Chi-Se is more then cabable of bounching the 122mm cannons from time to time.

 

But do remember that the Chi-Se has that amazing mobilty on it's side!

 

This might be a discussion for another day, but maybe the production version of the 105mm would be a better choice for balance.

 

So that's the Chi-Se!

Tell me what you think! And leave your vote in the poll above!

See you on the battlefield! :salute:

Chi-Se.png

Sources:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Tank:J11_Chi_Ri (Scroll down to the Historical Info tab)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/5yihwc/chise_japans_heavy_medium/

 

Special thanks:

@EpicM4Tank and @EpicBlitzkrieg87 for the fanmade ingame images of the Chi-Se.

 

The Chi-Se is also featured in the:

 

Edited by super_cacti
Small update explaining the Model II turret a bit more.
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 6
  • Upvote 22
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

@Mai_Waffentrager should know more about it. Also it's more of a heavy tank, it should be in a heavy tank line.

Agreed, I’ll add the option. Thanks!

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

@Mai_Waffentrager should know more about it. Also it's more of a heavy tank, it should be in a heavy tank line.

not really the Chi name is the Japanese designation for medium tanks, it's like saying the pather 2 belongs in the heavy line due to it's weight and gun (though by the allies standards it was a heavy *the regular panthers that is)

Edited by Walrus_batter
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Walrus_batter said:

not really the Chi name is the Japanese designation for medium tanks, it's like saying the pather 2 belongs in the heavy line due to it's weight and gun (though by the allies standards it was a heavy *the regular panthers that is)

Well one source said it had a 120mm plate bolted on the front turret, and if it also has the Ho-Ri Production hull. Then it's totaly a heavy tank! xD

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so according to a comment that Mai made on Reddit recently, out of all of the archive-searching Mai's done she's only ever seen a single paragraph mentioning the Chi-Se and flat-out said to just forget about her ever mentioning it. Which really, really sucks.

 

Having said that, it's entirely possible that there's still more information on the Chi-Se left to be discovered in an archive somewhere, so don't give up hope on the Chi-Se! Keep the dream alive!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Tasty95215 said:

Okay, so according to a comment that Mai made on Reddit recently, out of all of the archive-searching Mai's done she's only ever seen a single paragraph mentioning the Chi-Se and flat-out said to just forget about her ever mentioning it. Which really, really sucks.

 

Having said that, it's entirely possible that there's still more information on the Chi-Se left to be discovered in an archive somewhere, so don't give up hope on the Chi-Se! Keep the dream alive!

I have my hopes up! This would be an amazing tank for the Japanese ground forces!

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for whatever winds up as the final product. hopefully there's something hiding in the japanese archives.

 

too bad no Ho-Ri hulls remained in inventory. it'd be awesome to see a Ho-Ri with an L7 gun.

 

what is the 105mm on the Chi-Se supposed to be? the case as the Type 5 Ho-Ri?

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

what is the 105mm on the Chi-Se supposed to be? the case as the Type 5 Ho-Ri?

Mai originally said the experimental 105. With her new words, we should probably take that with a grain of salt.

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure that this wouldn't be added, since Gaijin has moved on from paper and now we're just getting boring post war vehicles. That being said, if this could be implemented in a balanced fashion +1

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the moment, there's not enough information of the Chi-Se for it to be implemented. We do know there was a partial prototype and the idea they were going for, but some important specifics are completely unknown. I'd love it to be in the game, but atm it's not able to be.

Edited by Muammar_Gaddaf69
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, BeliyLebed160 said:

I'm all for this...but PLEASE can we put it at 5.7 (or even 5.3)?  6.0's just too high; even with that 4.1-inch gun, this thing won't stand a chance against it's competition.

Even if it has the prototype's hull and gun, why would it be lower than 6.0?

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I want the Chi-Se, we don't have enough accurate information on it so I'll wait till more information about it to surface

Edited by Asakaze
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, BeliyLebed160 said:

I'm all for this...but PLEASE can we put it at 5.7 (or even 5.3)?  6.0's just too high; even with that 4.1-inch gun, this thing won't stand a chance against it's competition.

It would become OP at 5,7. The cannon and the Hull of this tank make it to powerfull. Why would you have a tank that’s pretty much a Ho-Ri Prototype, and as a turret, at a lower RB then it?

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Thanks for a great article. :D  
*Link Removed*

Edited by SAUBER_KH7
Link Removed

SAUBER_KH7 (Posted )

Please, DO NOT: Do Not: 1.1.2. Start or participate in flame wars, intentionally derail a topic, or post useless spam messages in moderated areas. --- Please do not post spam links as it is against Forum Rules. Verbal Warning.
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Despite it not being built. It still could be possible to add since the Ho-Ri Chasis & Chi-Ri Turret were built along with the 105mm gun.

 

I would probably bring in the "105 Tiger.II/Panther.II" argument. since even though the 105 Tiger.II was never built, It still uses the design's from other existing Tiger.II's & giving a "What If" moment. & the Panther.II had the Chasis built but not the Turret nor the 88mm gun. but as long theirs a part that was built. It could still be added.

 

So Yeah, I'd say it's possible to add the Chi-Se.

Edited by *cartman400
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I understand, it was partially built, and Gaijin does accept partially built vehicles if enough information about the necessities (Gun and Ammo performance, engine, armour thickness etc.) is known. However at the moment all the necessary information simply isn't known. So no Chi-Se for now, maybe in the future once enough information is dug up.

Edited by Muammar_Gaddaf69
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If by the grace of some god they are able to find pieces of paper that clearly state how the vehicle preformed and find read solid design specifications then it's pretty clear that an idea like this can happen and should be pretty easy for them to craft after they compare the information they have found with everything else they have learned since designing vehicles. 

 

Physics doesn't ever really change, in this certain instance, and if they can find solid proof that certain numbers on whatever they can find is real then they can easily simulate those numbers next to others already tested and proven in-game. 

 

I mean just looking at those simple outlines makes me wonder how fun that could be to play in-game so I certainly would assume an idea like this would do great justice to overall growth and enjoyment.

 

We just need to find the evidence somehow and that's the hardest part I guess.   

  • Like 1
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This would be a really helpful tank for the Japanese, who desperately need more tanks as it is.

 

I hope someone finds more information on it.  I want it.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.