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Arsenal VG.30 series


CaID
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Should the VG.30 be added to the game?  

109 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the VG.30 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      85
    • Yes, as preMium/gift/events vehicles
      16
    • No
      8
  2. 2. Should the VG.32 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      86
    • Yes, as preMium/gift/events vehicles
      17
    • No
      6
  3. 3. Should the VG.34 be added to the game?

    • yes
      94
    • Yes, as preMium/gift/events vehicles
      12
    • No
      3
  4. 4. Should the VG.35 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      88
    • Yes, as preMium/gift/events vehicles
      14
    • No
      7
  5. 5. Should the VG.36 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      100
    • Yes, as preMium/gift/events vehicles
      7
    • No
      2
  6. 6. Should the VG.39 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      102
    • Yes, as preMium/gift/events vehicles
      5
    • No
      2


france_flag_by_think0-d563k6e.jpg

 

i would like to suggest a whole family of fighter that would be fitting well in the french tree. the Arsenal VG.30s

21677876518_78a804d58d_b.jpg

 

because there is plenty varriant in this family, including the VG.33 currently in the game, i will simply talk about those who was more serious and whith acurate description.

 

The concept of a light fighter was very popular in France during the interwar. The government spared no money for the development of such machines, although the results obtained did not justify the hopes. In turn, the Air Force Headquarters believed that such fighters could be used as high-speed interceptors. The calculation was also based on the fact that these aircraft will be cheaper in production, will require less time to fabricate, and in operation they will not require special maintenance. In the end, everything turned out quite the contrary, although several firms managed to achieve very good results. 

Arsenal l'Aeronautique, led by Michel Verniss, and the chief engineer was Jacques Gautier - hence the designation VG. The new company took one of the old factories in Villacoublay, formerly owned by Breguet. The design of the aircraft with the designation VG-30 began at the end of 1936 and proceeded proactively without any government order. The design team intended to create a light single-seat fighter, which in its parameters was at least as good as the one adopted in the same year by the MS.405C.1, but with higher speed. The model of the plane was exhibited at the Paris Aviation Salon, where he made a favorable impression on the specialists. A few months later, the French Air Force issued a specification A.23 for the development of a lightweight fighter in the C1 category, in which VG.30 was very well fitted. Several more companies took part in the competition, and Arsenal's competitors were strong enough. So, the firm Caudron, which was the trendsetter in this direction, presented the project C.713 - the development of successful airplanes of the racing series, adapted for military needs. The lightweight Bloch MB.700 fighter was also built on the basis of the existing design and was a reduced copy of the MV.151. A little later they were joined by Roussel R-30 and CAO.200, which also had good indicators.

The revised project was ready by mid-1937, and the construction of the first VG-30.01 model was completed next year. Although the aircraft had a wooden structure, the high manufacturing culture and technological skill of Jacques Gautier left no doubt that the VG-30 would be quite a worthy competition to the recognized giants of aircraft construction. The prototype immediately planned to install a Potez 12Dc (610 hp) motor, but during the construction it was selected Hispano-Suiza 12Xcrs (690 hp) featuring the best performance data. Armament was not installed, but in the project the fighter was equipped with a 20 mm motor cannon and four wing 7.5 mm machine guns.

For several months the plane stayed in the hangar, waiting for permission to proceed to the test program. The delay was due to the fact that in 1937-1938. the company Caudron tried in vain to deploy the serial production of the C.714 fighter (the development of C.713 with machine guns), as if previously recognized as the winner of the contest, but possessed so many shortcomings that it took many years to eliminate them. When it was found out that C.714 will arrive in the army not earlier than 1939, the Air Force ordered to quickly carry out the test program VG-30.01. The first flight he made on October 1, 1938, followed by a short break, during which several changes were made to the design of the aircraft. The full cycle of testing fighter was held from March 24 to July 17, 1939, showing excellent for its class TTX. In one of the flights in July 1939, the VG-30.01 developed a speed of 805 km / h on a dive!.

The Minister of Aviation of France Pierre Cat was very pleased with the aircraft, but so far there was no question of mass production. By that time the company had prepared a new VG-31 fighter. It was equipped with a more powerful engine Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 (860 hp), had a reduced to 12 sq.m. The area of the wing and transferred under the "belly" radiator. The armament was reduced to two 7.5 mm machine guns. Before the flight tests, the VG-31 was purged in a wind tunnel. It was then that the "hardened" wing possesses the worst load-bearing properties and adversely affects the control of the aircraft. It was dangerous to fly such a plane and the company decided to use its wing for static tests, and the fuselage and engine served as the basis for the construction of the third prototype, designated VG-33.03 (it also never flew and was used only for ground tests). Bearing surfaces and the composition of weapons while borrowing from the VG-30. The designation VG-35.01 was initially missed, but in October 1939 it was assigned to the fourth prototype (VG-33.04). From the rest it differed in the engine HS 12Y-51 (1100 hp) and entered the test only on April 15, 1940. The plane flew for a short time from the Orleans-Bricey airfield, but with the arrival of the Germans, its tracks are lost. The second prototype VG-33.02 was to become the prototype of the high-altitude interceptor to receive the engine HS 12Y-49 with compressors such as Szydlowski-Planiol, but it was not possible to bring this system to normal and the aircraft was equipped with a conventional engine HS 12Y-31. The fifth prototype VG-33.05 was supposed to be equipped with the American engine Allison V-1710-C15 (1150 hp).

The fighters on the tests showed a speed of 558 km / h at an altitude of 5,200 meters and could rise to a height of up to 9,000 meters. On June 11, the prototype VG-33.01 was handed over for testing at CEMA (the French Air Force Test Center), where the previously obtained figures were fully confirmed. In October 1939, the aircraft was sent to fire tests and after their completion, in March 1940, the Air Force headquarters initiated the start of the serial production of the Arsenal VG-33C.1 fighter with American engines at the SNCAN plant. Since at that time there were concerns about the stability of the supply of motors Allison, French engineers prepared a modification of the VG-32C.1, intended primarily for static testing. Then they decided to bring him to the status of a full-fledged fighter. The VG-32C.1 was equipped with a new armament: the American engine did not allow mounting the motor-gun in the collapse of the cylinders, so instead of it two ordinary 20-mm cannons and two machine guns were placed in the wing. From external changes, this variant had only a nose of the fuselage extended by 48 cm. The construction of the fighter was noticeably delayed and its first flight was scheduled for June 1940. "Thirty-second" and waited until the arrival of the Germans, standing in a hangar factory Villacoublay without an engine.

Gvg33-index.jpg

About the exact number of registered aircraft, the data slightly diverge. Judging by one source, the contract for 220 fighters was signed on September 12, 1939, on the other - on September 17, 200 planes were ordered. In any case, the number of built fighters looks much more modest. Contrary to all expectations, the production of aircraft proceeded too slowly, threatening to grow into a problem that had previously faced the firm Caudron. The biggest trouble was the lack of raw materials, as the French aviation industry almost entirely switched to the production of all-metal aircraft and the supplier companies did not harvest the timber of the proper species. Arsenal ordered raw materials in Great Britain, Canada, overseas provinces and even in Romania to get out of the situation, but the quality of the material provided by the latter country was so low that after the signing of the contract with the Romanians they refused. The time for the delivery of the serial production was always pushed back and the first term, scheduled for November 1939, had to be postponed to January, with the delivery of the whole batch in April 1940. The firm had to cheat a little, having shown the first serial VG-33 on the scheduled date - January 10, 1940, but in fact it was also the fifth prototype. He entered the tests in April, and in May he was joined by two real production aircraft VG-33 No.1 and VG-33 No.2, manufactured by SNCAN. After a series of tests, the first seven fighters were formed by the EAA-301 experimental squadron. The combat value of the VG-33 was estimated very low, so two planes with numbers 1 and 6 were sent back to the plant (as samples for later production), and the fighters with numbers 2 and 4 were transferred to the GC I \ 2 group armed with MS.406C. 1. The combat work of the VG-33 fighters is very little known. After June 10, 1940, they made several combat sorties, climbing from the airfields in Willikuble, Orleans and Shatero, until they were transferred to Bordeaux. A separate episode related to the history of VG-33 belongs to Polish pilots.

 

June 15, 1940 a group of Polish officers, who called themselves "Chimney Key Kr.", Was sent to the Etamp airfield to obtain new equipment. As could be guessed, the French were going to hand over the VG-33 fighters to them, but the Polish were ready to fight on any airplane, even if not the most perfect one. The group included Major Zdislav Krasnodubsky, first lieutenants Jan Zumbach and Miroslav Feric, and sergeants Marjan Belk, Stanislav Karabani and Stefan Voitovich. Even in Orleans they were divided into two subgroups, but they were all assigned to the DGC I \ 55 squadron stationed in the Chatero, whose task was to cover the airs of French cities. Lieutenant Zumbach's link received four VG-33C.1 and managed to make several patrol missions before the truce. The last mention of VG-33C.1 refers to June 17, 1940, when the Polish pilots made the 36th combat flight over Bordeaux.
Meanwhile, the production of fighters continued. The order for 160 aircraft was not canceled, but before the defeat of France managed to partially collect only 19 of them. These VG-33s were incomplete, as they lacked weapons, radio and other equipment. Officially, the French Air Force received 10 VG-33 aircraft, but until June 22, only half of them were commissioned. Five planes fell into the hands of the Germans (one of them with number 3 was sent to the test center in Rechlin) and five more cars remained in the unoccupied territory, remaining there until full occupation in November 1942.

vg33panel%20petit.jpg
Serial production of the VG-32C.1 did not take place at all, although until July 1940, the Ministry of Aviation intended to produce 400 aircraft of this modification. To this end, a Michelin plant was set up in Clermont-Ferrand, but optimistic calculations were radically destroyed by the slow preparation of the production base, so that the first production aircraft could be obtained no earlier than December.

VG 30

Spoiler

vg30-1.jpg

First prototype of the series. the plane was well fast and could reach a speed of 485 km/h  at 4.500m and over 800km/h in a dive. it was powered by a Hispano-Suiza 12Xcrs of 690hp and intended to be armed with a 20mm engine cannon and four wing MGs of 7.5mm.

General characteristics

  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 8.40 m
  • Wingspan: 10.8 m (35 ft 5 in)
  • Height: 3.31 m (10 ft 10 in)
  • Wing area: 14 m2 (150 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: 2,050 kg (4,519 lb)
  • Gross weight: 2,655 kg (5,853 lb)
  • Powerplant: 1 × Hispano-Suiza 12Xcrs of 690hp

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 458 km/h at 4500m
  • Range: 1,200 km (746 mi; 648 nmi)
  • Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,000 ft)
  • Power/mass: 0.24 kW/kg (0.146 hp/lb)

Armament

 

this is a good Tier 2 at BR.2.3

 

VG.31

Spoiler

second varriant of the plane with reduced wing and Hispano-Suiza 12Y31 engine of 860. this plane never flew as the ground test in tunnel show the plane was badly centered and unstable and would be dangerous to fly.

 

VG.32

Spoiler

vg33-2.jpg

 

A interresting varriant fitting the american engine, Allison V-1710-C15 of 1400hp and since the engine couldn't have a internal cannon, the aircraft was to carry a pair of 20mm HS 404 on the wing along side with a pair of 7.5mm MAC 34. an order of 400 VG.32 was made but never built as the engine was never available. the plane was capture by the german and most likely scraped.

 

General characteristics

  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 9.03 m
  • Wingspan: 10.8 m
  • Height: 3.30 m
  • Wing area: 14 m2 (150 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: ?
  • Gross weight: 2700 - 3000kg
  • Powerplant: 1 × Allison V-1710-C15 engine with 1040/1150 hp.

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 600-620 km/h at 7000m (estimated according to the power of the engine)
  • Range: 1,200 km (746 mi; 648 nmi)
  • Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,000 ft)

Armament

 

this is a good Tier 3 at BR.3.7 or 4.0, Hopefully in the main tree (since an order was made)

 

VG.33

Spoiler

vg33double.jpg

this plane was the only actually produced plane and also the only one currently in the game. no need to suggest this plane another time.

General characteristics

  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 8.55 m (28 ft 1 in)
  • Wingspan: 10.8 m (35 ft 5 in)
  • Height: 3.31 m (10 ft 10 in)
  • Wing area: 14 m2 (150 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: 2,050 kg (4,519 lb)
  • Gross weight: 2,655 kg (5,853 lb)
  • Powerplant: 1 × Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 V-12 liquid-cooled piston engine, 641 kW (860 hp)

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 558 km/h (347 mph; 301 kn)
  • Range: 1,200 km (746 mi; 648 nmi)
  • Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,000 ft)
  • Power/mass: 0.24 kW/kg (0.146 hp/lb)

Armament

 

VG.34

Spoiler

image.php?im=4586

a VG.33 with a Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 engine of 960hp. this plane could reach the speed of 600km/h. the armament wasn't different than the VG.33. the plane was capture by the german and his fate is unknown. most likely scrapped.

 

General characteristics

  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 8.64 m
  • Wingspan: 10.8 m
  • Height: 3.30 m
  • Wing area: 14 m2 (150 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: ?
  • Gross weight: 2900 kg
  • Powerplant: 1 × Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 of 960 ch

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 576 km/h at 6000m
  • Range: 1,200 km (746 mi; 648 nmi)
  • Rate of climbing: 14.26 m/sec
  • Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,000 ft)

Armament

 

this is a good Tier 2 at BR.2.3 or 2.7

 

VG.35

Spoiler

vg30-10.jpg

 

another VG.33 with a Hispano-Suiza 12y-51 of 1000hp. the plane was capture at Orléan by the german and his fate is unknow. most likely scrapped. his performance are also unknown. most likely a bit better than the VG.34

 

General characteristics

  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 8.64 m
  • Wingspan: 10.8 m
  • Height: 3.30 m
  • Wing area: 14 m2 (150 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: ?
  • Gross weight: 2900 kg
  • Powerplant: 1 × Hispano-Suiza 12y-51 of 1000hp

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 576 km/h at 6000m
  • Range: 1,200 km (746 mi; 648 nmi)
  • Rate of climbing: 14.26 m/sec
  • Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,000 ft)

Armament

 

this is a good Tier 2 at BR.2.7 or 3.0

 

VG.36

Spoiler

vg36-01.jpg

The aircraft is a further development of the VG-30 family. It was equipped with a twelve-cylinder piston engine Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 with a capacity of 1000 hp. The first flight of the aircraft took place on May 14, 1940. Flight tests were successful and it was decided to build a plane in the series. However, the military actions of 1940 prevented these plans. the plane could reach a speed of 590km/h

 

General characteristics

  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 8.64 m
  • Wingspan: 10.8 m
  • Height: 3.30 m
  • Wing area: 14 m2 (150 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: ?
  • Gross weight: 2900 kg
  • Powerplant: 1 × Hispano-Suiza 12y-51 of 1000hp

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 590 km/h at 7000m
  • Range: 1,200 km (746 mi; 648 nmi)
  • Rate of climbing: 14.26 m/sec
  • Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,000 ft)

Armament

 

this is a good Tier 2 at BR.2.7 or 3.0

 

VG.39

Spoiler

vg39-1.jpg

 

Continuing to work on improving the VG.33 fighter, launched in 1939 in batch production, the design team of the company l`Arsenal presented its modified version of VG.39. The main differences of this modification were: a new engine Hispano-Suiza HS 12Y-89ter, a modified nose of the fuselage and a new armament. Since the design of the engine did not provide for the installation of a motor cannon, six 7.5mm machine guns in the wing were installed instead. In the near future it was planned to replace the engine with HS 12Z (1600 hp) that allowed to place a 20-mm cannon in the collapse of the cylinders, but this idea was not really implemented and the VG.39bis modification remained only in the project. In the rest, VG.39 did not differ from the earlier model.

The first flight of the prototype fighter VG.39.01 was performed on May 3, 1940 and showed very encouraging characteristics. The maximum speed of the aircraft was 625 km / h at an altitude of 5700 meters without loss of maneuverability and other flight data. The pilots flying on VG.39 spoke very well of him, but too rapid advance of the enemy deep into France forced to interrupt the tests. The prototype was evacuated to Toulouse-Blagnac and on 15 June 1940 it was destroyed in order to avoid capture by German troops.

At the drawing stage, there are still several promising options. The first of these was VG.40, which was supposed to be equipped with a British engine Rolls-Royce "Merlin" III (1030 hp). On its basis, the design of a two-bodied VG.42 fighter was also developed, according to the scheme identical to the German Bf.109Z and the American P-82. The last unrealized modification was VG.50, the main modifications of which were to install the American Allison V-1710-39 engine with a two-speed supercharger. This option could be used as a high-altitude interceptor.

Virtually no chance of continuing the work on VG.39 from the French. It so happened that one of the best fighters of France, issued before surrender in June 1940, was left out of business because of restrictions imposed by the German administration. Instead, it was planned to continue the production of the Dewoitine D.520C.1 and Bloch MB.155 fighter aircraft, which were mass-produced, although both of these machines also served as the basis for several modifications, the best of which could be considered D.550 and MW.157. However, they, despite the great interest of Luftwaffe specialists, remained only at the level of prototypes.

 

General characteristics

  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 8.75 m
  • Wingspan: 10.8 m
  • Height: 3.32 m
  • Wing area: 14 m2 (150 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: 2210 kg
  • Gross weight: 3000 kg
  • Powerplant: 1 × Hispano-Suiza HS-12Z (89ter), with a capacity of 1200 hp

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 625 km/h at 5700m 586 km/h at sea level
  • Range: 1,021 km (746 mi; 648 nmi)
  • Rate of climbing: 20 m/sec
  • Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,000 ft)

Armament

 

this is a good Tier 3 at BR.3.3 or 3.7

 

vg30-2.gif

 

 

 

Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_VG-33

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/arsenal_vg-39.php

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/arsenal_vg-36.php

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/arsenal_vg-30.php

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/arsenal_vg-33.php

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=38191.0

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1250

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_VG_33

Spoiler

64gw7t.jpg

 

Edited by CaID
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For the Arsenal Vg series
here are the only planes that are worth it

-Arsenal VG 30:"Prototype"

-Arsenal VG 32: "Planned Series"

-Arsenal VG 34:"Prototype"

-Arsenal VG 35:"No Built"

-Arsenal VG 36:"Prototype", "Planned Series"

-Arsenal VG 37:"No Built"

-Arsenal VG 38:"No Built"

-Arsenal VG 39:"Prototype", "Planned Series"

-Arsenal VG 39 bis(VG40): "Prototype"

Spoiler

5fxa.jpg

Here is the real list existing to date

Edited by Xenecrite
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7 minutes ago, AtomicPope said:

At least some of them are needed ingame given how barebones the french tree is, particularly the high powered versions. Especially the 39 would fall in an area where not many native french planes are, so +1

i counted enough suggestion for 119 different plane, they even if they add 1/4 of them the french tree will become interesting.

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Here are all Arsenal Vg series aircraft produced: prototype, series
who we really existed
except the VG 31,35,37,38 which one existed also but only to serve as time for tests of new engine and new fuselages but it never was armed

Spoiler

3wu6.jpg

Source:Aéro Journal N°46 Décembre-Janvier 2006

https://www.google.fr/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&biw=1920&bih=947&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=D5kRWrOCCYqwatDLldgD&q=Aéro+Journal+N°46+2006&oq=Aéro+Journal+N°46+2006&gs_l=psy-ab.3...15532.15532.0.16286.1.1.0.0.0.0.80.80.1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.Vq5G0BJoXEs#imgrc=6ieO-7VPMCjguM:

Edited by Xenecrite
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10 minutes ago, Xenecrite said:

Here are all Arsenal Vg series aircraft produced: prototype, series
who we really existed
except the VG 31,35,37,38 which one existed also but only to serve as time for tests of new engine and new fuselages but it never was armed

  Hide contents

566594Sanstitre1.jpg

Source:Aéro Journal N°46 Décembre-Janvier 2006

https://www.google.fr/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&biw=1920&bih=947&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=D5kRWrOCCYqwatDLldgD&q=Aéro+Journal+N°46+2006&oq=Aéro+Journal+N°46+2006&gs_l=psy-ab.3...15532.15532.0.16286.1.1.0.0.0.0.80.80.1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.Vq5G0BJoXEs#imgrc=6ieO-7VPMCjguM:

 

do you have the PDF or the journal. i would like to check about the VG.40. it is a potential good plane. usually the Bis have either better engine and/or armament.

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what about his performance?

 

1600hp is a lot more than 1200. the speed should reach about 700km/h

 

Edited by CaID
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21 minutes ago, Xenecrite said:

707 km / h to 6500 m (530 km / h at sea level) and climb to 8000 m in just 7 minutes 37 seconds

 

a was pretty close. 1% off the target.

1x 20mm, 6x 7.5mm, 707 km/h, 17.5m/sec at the climbing, high maneuverability. it's a pretty decent plane. i think it could be br 4.0

Edited by CaID
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i will not add it to this suggestion, even if it's part of the VG.30 family. someone could make his own suggestion out of it and i will just add a spoiler for the variant and inside will be link to the Vg.39bis post.

 

Edited by CaID
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We need the V.G.32 and the V.G.39 very soon in the French Tree.

I want them so much.

The V.G.60 with the Jummo 213 Engine would be a dream.

That would be a real good Tier IV Premium plane around BR 4.3!!!

Edited by LoserRoccii888
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The VG 36 and VG 39 (especially the latter) were the two french planes I was most hyped for when France was coming
I love the VG 33, too, but it would be a glorious day if the VG 36 and VG 39 were added to the tree

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  • 5 months later...

Wasn't the HS12z unfit to carry a 20mm inside the propeller? If it is the case, the VG 39 armament would be impossible to put in place.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

I definitely support the addition of the VG.30, VG.32, VG.36, and VG.39, but I'd be happy to see any of them!

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I don't think these articles were posted yet on the VG36 and other VG series: https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=36404.0

https://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/arsenal_de_l_aeronautique.pdf

And for our Russian friends:

http://www.aviarmor.net/aww2/projects/fra/arsenal_vg60.htm

Last but not least, the Czech seem to have a lot of written references quoted in this article:

http://rejpalek.blog.cz/0908/arsenal-vg-32

 

Edited by Kasukaru
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2 hours ago, *DoxerWhite said:

It would contribute a lot to the fighter line. +1

even add the possibility to split the fighter line between the light and medium/heavy fighter. the french doctrine was planing to have a long range and very light fighter and a shorter range fighter with a bit heavier armament. the VG.30 was in the first group and the D.520 and MB.150 in the second group. we can easily cheat a bit by adding the MS.400s and other plane from morane into the light line and you get two fighter line that would be more or less equivalent in quantity and quality.

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