Jump to content

Sud-Ouest SO.6020 Espadon


CaID
 Share

Should the SO.6020-1 be added to the game?  

123 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the SO.6020-1 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      82
    • Yes, as prenium/gift/events vehicles
      16
    • No
      25
  2. 2. Should the SO.6020-2 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      95
    • Yes, as prenium/gift/events vehicles
      11
    • No
      17
  3. 3. Should the SO.6021 be added to the game?

    • yes
      106
    • Yes, as prenium/gift/events vehicles
      9
    • No
      8
  4. 4. Should the SO.6025 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      102
    • Yes, as prenium/gift/events vehicles
      13
    • No
      8
  5. 5. Should the SO.6026 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      93
    • Yes, as prenium/gift/events vehicles
      17
    • No
      13


france_flag_by_think0-d563k6e.jpg

 

i would like to suggest an early post-war french interceptor. the Sud-Ouest SO.6020 Espadon

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5liSFVpMlZk/UQhq8bN9oLI/AAAAAAAAADs/9OT1HXNAgUI/s1600/Espadon_1.jpg

 

At the end of the 1940s, the French aeronautics was starting more or less from zero after the war. Faced with strong political will, the air force was trying to catch up with the English and Americans. There are therefore many tests and research carried out during this period from the end of the Second World War to 1960. Equipped mainly with foreign aircraft, manufactured or not under license such as the "Mistral" copy (under license) of the " Vampire de Havilland, France wanted to revive its aeronautics industry to overcome this dependence of foreign devices. Thus was born a promising device but will have no tomorrow, the SO-6020 Espadon.

 

By 1946, the Air Force had issued a fact sheet and specifications for a jet fighter, capable of interception and interdiction missions, replacing all piston engine fighters, which the reactor had dethroned so quickly. Mustang and Spitfire left by the allies could no longer compete with the new "jets", even as tensions in Indochina demanded a quick response from the city. In 1946, no French apparatus nor no French engine could make it possible to answer this so ambitious sheet. But behind, the state also wanted to stimulate research in new areas. A contract was awarded to a cell builder, nationalized since the great nationalizations of 1936: the SNCASO, National Society of Aeronautical Construction of South West (ancestor of the Aerospace and by descent, of EADS). To further encourage competition, a second contract was awarded to Dassault Aviation. If Dassault was content with a formula all "classic" of the Hurricane (wings straight, wide air intake in the front with a reactor in the back, the SNCASO embarked on a much more radical and ambitious project : the SO-6020.

 

The 6020 presented itself as a narrow and tall aircraft, with a very fine, very fine wing, bolted to the fuselage. In return, it contained no fuel tank. Propulsion side, the device was powered by a Rolls Royce "Nene" (like everyone at the time!). The engine was not powered by an air intake at the front, but two gills located under the belly of the bête. The landing gear was a tricycle train, and the main gear was fixed under the wings, but folded into a housing inside the fuselage. This fuselage which had to embark the fuel, the engine, the electronic equipment without forgetting the pilot had some space limitations. Between the power of Nene and everything that had to be shipped, everything was a compromise for SNCASO.

Equipped with a "Nene" Mk100 2.2 tons of thrust, the first aircraft will make its maiden flight on November 12, 1948. Finding it promising, the Air Force ordered two other prototypes including a derivative device equipped for air combat, a total of two SO-6020, and one SO-6025. The aircraft will be officially called "Espadon" on this occasion.

 

Many modifications were made on the devices giving rise to an anthology of versions:

The original SO-6020-01 device before being rebuilt in -02
The SO-6020-02 designed from the elements of -01, will become successively SO-6021 then SO-6026
SO-6020-03 to become SO-6025 after addition of SEPR rocket engine

 

We can see that there were really only two aircraft ... for a total of 5 different versions over the years.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vBWy37YBU2I/UD8iiklsqmI/AAAAAAAAAyc/KxhFfDy1Djs/s640/Poste+pilotage.jpg

If the aircraft was flying very well in level, it was largely under-motorized uphill, Dassault "Hurricane" leaving it well behind. Taking into account the lessons, the SO-6020-01 will be dismantled and rebuilt, giving birth to -02. It will gain lateral air intakes and two engines "Marboré" at the end of wings and an increased drift for more efficiency. Other modifications will transform it into SO-6021 (lightened structure, reduced cockpit and Leduc servocontrols). The other device, the SO-6025 will be modified at the drift with a reduced weight of 700kg compared to SO-6020, and will be added a rocket engine of the SEPR, operating fluraline (a derivative of fluorine) and nitric acid, two products that had to be kept in isolated tanks, both of which were extremely toxic.

Despite this power gain for takeoff, the Swordfish still could not compete with the Hurricane that will be retained by the Air Force, which will cancel the Swordfish in 1951. Despite the program's end, the three aircraft will participate in the flight test center with several ejection seat or onboard system tests, as well as the development of engines such as Gabizo or Marboré, but the absence of spare parts made maintenance problematic, and all swordfish will be removed from flight in January 1956.

Also note that André Turcat at the controls of the SO-6021 will be the first to cross the sound barrier level aboard a French (and even European) plane on December 15, 1953, thanks to the addition of the rocket engine SEPR .

The last prototype (the -03 became SO-6025) will not be scrapped: become useless and cumbersome, the device was boned of all that could serve, and will suffer the fate of many unfortunate prototypes: it will be abandoned on the field Suippes shooting, probably around 1958. In 1971, the carcass of F-WFRG will be recovered by the Association of Ancient Wings Alsace, before returning to the south in 1987, integrating the collection of Ailes Anciennes Toulouse, where the device is still today. Stored in several pieces, it was partially reassembled in 2009, giving it a "aeronautic" aspect a little more marked

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nsXChGaMJu8/UQhpndngwdI/AAAAAAAAADk/Ogd9-YY46Yo/s1600/Espadon_5.jpg

 

 

SO.6020-1

Spoiler

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/so6020/so6020-2.jpg

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/so6020/so6020-1.jpg

. Nene-powered prototype first flown on 12 November 1948. you can reconize it by the air-intake under the belly.  the plane was going to be armed with 4x 30mm in the nose with a ammo belt that go all the way to the belly where the ammo box is stored. and 4x 12.7mm was also going to be installed in the nose

 

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/so6020/so6020-1.gif

SO.6020-2

Spoiler

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/so6020/so6020-3.jpg

Second prototype first flown 30 December 1949, later modified with the addition of a 14.71 kN (3,307 lbf) SEPR 25 rocket engine and re-designated S.O.6026

 

SO.6021

Spoiler

 

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/so6020/so6020-4.jpg

 

The proposed production aircraft based on the S.O.6020-03, but with a lighter-weight structure, ejection seat, smaller pressurised cockpit and hydraulically boosted flying controls. The sole prototype was first flown on 3 June 1950. 6x 20mm was on the nose.

http://all-aero.com/images/stories/pics3/so-6021-ld.jpg

 

 

 

SO.6025

Spoiler

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/so6020/so6020-6.jpg

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/so6020/so6020-7.jpg

The third prototype fitted with a SEPR 25 auxiliary liquid-fuel rocket beneath the fuselage and 4x 20mm cannon on the nose

 

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/so6020/so6020-3.gif

 

SO.6026

Spoiler

the 2nd prototype modified with SEPR 251 under the fuselage.

 

most likely identical to the So.6025 but with 6x 20mm guns

 

General characteristics (SO.6021)

  • Crew: 1
  • Length: 15 m (49 ft 3 in)
  • Wingspan: 10.6 m (34 ft 9 in)
  • Height: 4.72 m (15 ft 6 in)
  • Wing area: 26.5 m2 (285 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: 4,750 kg (10,472 lb)
  • Gross weight: 6,870 kg (15,146 lb)
  • Powerplant: 1 × Rolls-Royce Nene centrifugal compressor turbojet engine, 22 kN (5,000 lbf) thrust

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 967 km/h; 522 kn (601 mph)
  • Endurance: 2.5 hours
  • Rate of climb: 27 m/s (5,300 ft/min)

Armament

  • Guns: 4x 30 mm (0.787 in) cannon in the nose
  • 4x 12.7mm in the nose as well

 

 

Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sud-Ouest_Espadon

http://histaero.blogspot.ca/2013/01/les-secrets-de-lautre-espadon.html

http://www.avionslegendaires.net/avion-militaire/sud-ouest-so-6020-espadon/

https://www.aviationsmilitaires.net/v2/base/view/Model/1537.html

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/so_espadon.php

http://jn.passieux.free.fr/html/Espadon.php

http://www.fliegerweb.com/de/lexicon/Geschichte/Sud-Ouest+SO.+6020+Espadon-591

and the information given by the Toulouse Aviation Muséum

 

Edited by CaID
  • Upvote 14
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a whole family of jets huh? aight... i'll bite.

 

so for starters, +4 out of 5.

 

SO.6020-1: no.

so this is the one i'm against. when it comes to planned armaments i prefer to weigh the pros and cons of intent, reality, and redundancy considering the situation of semi-historicity.

when compared against the 6020-2; which as stated in the OP is essentially just the 6026 without a SEPR rocket engine; the 6020-1 is just redundant.

I have no issue if this is added though. as i'm guessing the 6020-2 had some improvement over the 6020-1 i assume this is just slightly worse performing.

 

SO.6020-2: yes.

as previously mentioned, the 6020-2 is just what the 6026 was before it got a supplementary rocket engine. and since the 6026 got 6 20mms...

i have no issues if this is ignored alongside the 6020-1 though.

7.7 BR

 

SO.6021: yes.

the penultimate 6020. if the 6020-2 is the G.91 pre-serie or MiG-9, the 6021 is the G.91 R/1 or MiG-9 Late. better pilot safety, better control, and the first to actually have the armament installed.

7.7 or 8.0 BRs

 

SO.6025: yes.

the 6025 is practically the Me 262 C-1a to the 6021's Me 262 A-1a. two less 20mms? sure. that's a more than fair tradeoff for a ROCKET ENGINE. it's be interesting to see how this and the 2026 stack up against the Heimatschutzers.

8.0 BR

 

SO.6026: yes.

it's the best of all of the above. six 20s? check. rocket engine? (what's the difference from the SEPR 25 and SEPR 251?) check. safety and performance improvements? you betchya.

probably 9.0.

Edited by Admiral_Aruon
6020-1 and 6021 moved to 7.7, times have changed since 2017
  • Upvote 4
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

a whole family of jets huh? aight... i'll bite.

 

so for starters, +4 out of 5.

 

SO.6020-1: no.

so this is the one i'm against. when it comes to planned armaments i prefer to weigh the pros and cons of intent, reality, and redundancy considering the situation of semi-historicity.

when compared against the 6020-2; which as stated in the OP is essentially just the 6026 without a SEPR rocket engine; the 6020-1 is just redundant.

I have no issue if this is added though. as i'm guessing the 6020-2 had some improvement over the 6020-1 i assume this is just slightly worse performing.

 

SO.6020-2: yes.

as previously mentioned, the 6020-2 is just what the 6026 was before it got a supplementary rocket engine. and since the 6026 got 6 20mms...

i have no issues if this is ignored alongside the 6020-1 though.

7.3 BR

 

SO.6021: yes.

the penultimate 6020. if the 6020-2 is the G.91 pre-serie or MiG-9, the 6021 is the G.91 R/1 or MiG-9 Late. better pilot safety, better control, and the first to actually have the armament installed.

7.3 or 8.0 BRs

 

SO.6025: yes.

the 6025 is practically the Me 262 C-1a to the 6021's Me 262 A-1a. two less 20mms? sure. that's a more than fair tradeoff for a ROCKET ENGINE. it's be interesting to see how this and the 2026 stack up against the Heimatschutzers.

8.0 BR

 

SO.6026: yes.

it's the best of all of the above. six 20s? check. rocket engine? (what's the difference from the SEPR 25 and SEPR 251?) check. safety and performance improvements? you betchya.

probably 9.0.

 

i didn't even vote yes on the 6020-1 myself. there is enough of the other variant to skip that one.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it was filmed in the parade of July 14, 1951 a historical evidence because it is the only visible trace of this device which is Sud-Ouest SO.6021 Espadon proves well who stole it well.
Ps: this french only video sorry

0.46

Sud-Ouest SO.6020-01 Espadon

Spoiler

459582Sanstitre1.jpg

The Sud-Ouest SO.6020-01 Espadon could accommodate 2 different armaments:

- 6 x 20 mm cannon Hispano-Suiza HS-404
or
- 4 x 30 mm cannon Hispano-Suiza 411

http://atf40.forumculture.net/t6544-hispano-suiza-en-30-mm
- 4 x heavy machine gun 12.7 mm Browning M2

Edited by Xenecrite
  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...

I would personally be in favor of the 6021 and 6025, seems to me like they're the most "finished" versions. It's a far better proposition than the Arsenal VG 90, given the disaster that was its program.

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

still all for these. since the french now have their own F-84G, things are getting just a little bit out of hand with not just with any 7.7 air RB match at this point being practically guaranteed to feature an F-84G vs another F-84G, but because a third of the french AF is just a bunch of surly americans with baguettes.

 

the espadons are borderline identical, but all feature some particular quirk in much the same vein as the Me 262s that set them apart; whether it be the amazing armament, a supplementary rocket engine, neither, or both.

 

adding even 3, let alone all 5, of the espadons add some missing authenticity to the french AF, fills out tier 5 a bit more, and makes french planes feel more like Paris, France; and less like Paris, Kansas.

 

 

 

well then... i guess this concludes the blitz of me reaffirming my support for pretty much every french jet suggestion at the dawn of patch 1.79. less ameriburger jets! more snooty parisian jets!

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

The French tech tree definitely needs some low tier jets, currently the lowest is the F-84G at BR 7.7 which makes flying French jets in SB EC quite an exercise in frustration. So in general sense, I support all reasonable suggestions to add content to early Rank V on the French tech tree.

 

However, the S.O.6020-01 should not be added as it was an unarmed prototype and so wouldn't really have a place in War Thunder.

 

The S.O.6020-02 was the first armed prototype and this could be a good candidate to be added as an event vehicle. This prototype was also later modified with a rocket and re-named S.O.6026, but that would be redundant with the S.O.6025.

 

S.O.6021 was the proposed production model, and this should definitely be in the regular tech tree.

 

S.O.6025 was the third prototype (S.O.6020-03) but it was modified with a rocket engine before its first flight. I'm on the fence about this aircraft... I'm not particularly opposed to it, but it seems a bit out there. Then again, there are already two examples of rocket-boosted prototype jets in the German tech tree (Me 262 C-1a and C-2b) so I can't really think of a reason why it shouldn't be added. The problem might be finding reliable performance data for the rocket-boosted version.

 

S.O.6026 would be redundant with the S.O.6025, and at most I think just one of them should be added to the game. Even the nearly identical aircraft currently in War Thunder still have some differences.

 

That said, if the S.O.6025/6026 is added, I think it should also be in the regular tech tree instead of being an event or gift plane.

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 6 months later...

The Espadon SO.6025 is the greatest model from my point of view (with the rocket engine installed under the belly of the aircraft behind the reactor air intake) :

Sick sound at 9 minutes 17 seconds :

 

 

 

Edited by empyriusmei
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This will never be the best Espadon

(Spoiler, this is :)
Image result for espadon blake et mortimer

But gib it in any case

  • Haha 4
  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

It seems that the video link that I've posted some months ago is sometimes not available anymore (video deleted on YT).

https://www.ina.fr/emissions/histoire-de-l-aviation/ episode #7 "The Sound Barrier" is the original source, but the website unfortunately asks for money to be able to watch it...

Edited by empyriusmei

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...