Should the CAPRA R40 be added to the game?  

113 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the CAPRA R40 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      81
    • Yes, as prenium/gift/events vehicles
      16
    • No
      16
  2. 2. Should the CAPRA R41 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      72
    • Yes, as prenium/gift/events vehicles
      24
    • No
      17


france_flag_by_think0-d563k6e.jpg

 

i would like to suggest an very though and powerful heavy fighter for the french tree. the CAPRA R40

 

CAPRA-R-40-05.jpg

 

 

 

The CAPRA R40 was in interesting plane and just a marvelous addition for warthunder for his many feature which include his firepower, armor and his performance, truly a well designed plane who saddly wasn't built in time for the breaking of WW2. the feature are so good that i would like to keep the boring part from history for the very end of this post and just review the reason why people would love this plane (or hate it if you dont play the french)

 

1st Reason to like this plane, FIREPOWER!!!

File7767_WEB.jpgFile7771_WEB.jpg

his armament of six frontal 7.5mm and two 20mm with additional five defensive 7.5mm in a single rear turret. the armament was even more interesting with 1000 rounds for each MAC 34 7.5mm in the nose and 800 rounds for the rear guns. but the most interesting part of the frontal armament was the munition of the 20mm with a disappointing usual 60 rounds for each guns BUT the guns could be access by the gunner in the cockpit and 3 magazine of 60 rounds was included in the plane to reload while flying (FINALLY A FRENCHMAN WHO THOUGH ABOUT THE LACK OF AMMO OF THEIR PLANE!)

_-c-a-p-r-a-r40-twin-engined-fighter-jpg

 

 

2nd Reason to like this plane, ARMOR!!!

a feature that is not always appearing in the plane due to the weight is the addition of armor. Well, this plane was indeed armored and was in the important place.

 

the nose was armored with 7mm thick steel and another 7mm armor was behind the pilot sit (nothing uncommon there)

the rear gunner was also protected with another 7mm around him with 3 plate that make a "U" shape to the rear and both side. (that is lovely, usually nobody care about the gunner)

the Fuel tank was all protected by 7mm thick armor on the front and rear side (just perfect to not burn easily when you fallow a bomber or a plane is at your tail)

the windshield had an additional 40mm bulletproof glass (nothing worse than having your pilot kill when you go face to face with another plane)

the rear gunner glass was also protected by a bulletproof glass (someone really care about this gunner)

 

3rd reason to like this plane, PERFOMANCE!!!

_-c-a-p-r-a-r40-twin-engined-fighter-jpg

the R40 wasn't simply an heavy and powerful plane, it was also surprizling fast and was evaluated to reach the speed of 640km/h at 6.250m and 500km/h at the sea level. while the speed is interresting enough, the climbing is also good with about 15m/sec or 4m30sec to get to 4,000m. the plane was powered by two engine that was design to rotating at opposit dirrestion but while been different model, they was simply reflecting copy of each other. the engine was 1100hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-50  supercharger and Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 supercharger . the engine nacell was specially desing to maximized the cooling of the engine

Detail-structure-aile-R-40_WEB.jpg

the engine could be installed on either side of the plane without really having effect on the stability of the plane and the engine could also be replaced by Hispano-Suiza 12Z-89 of 1,479 hp.

 

now the last part of the topic, the boring part

for those who like history, well, little is know about the CAPRA R40. while the some very accurate documents and the pictures survived of this plane, the document found date of 1939 and 1940 and the plane was built by CAPRA and the work stopped because of the German invasion. the details of the fate of this plane is unknown.

 

General characteristics R40

  • Crew: 2
  • Length: 10,520 m
  • Wingspan: 13,900 m
  • Height: 3,220m
  • Wing area: 26,300 m²
  • Loaded weight: 5820,5 kg
  • Powerplant: 1 × Hispano-Suiza 12Y-50 of 1000hp and 1 × Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 of 1000hp

Performance

Armament

  • Guns:
    • 6 × 7.5 mm MAC 34 with 1000 rounds per guns
    • 2 × 20 mm HS 404 with 180 rounds per guns
    • 3 x 7.5 mm MAC 34 on the dorsal turret with 800 rounds per guns
    • 2 x 7.5 mm MAC 34 in the rear (the document talk about 5 guns in the rear but only mention a sigle turret with 3 guns. so those guns emplacement are unknown)

 

General characteristics R41 (same plane but different engines)

  • Crew: 2
  • Length: 10,520 m
  • Wingspan: 13,900 m
  • Height: 3,220m
  • Wing area: 26,300 m²
  • Loaded weight: 6105,5 kg
  • Powerplant: 2x Hispano-Suiza 12Z-89 of 1,479 hp.

Performance

Armament

  • Guns:
    • 6 × 7.5 mm MAC 34 with 1000 rounds per guns
    • 2 × 20 mm HS 404 with 180 rounds per guns
    • 3 x 7.5 mm MAC 34 on the dorsal turret with 800 rounds per guns
    • 2 x 7.5 mm MAC 34 in the rear (the document talk about 5 guns in the rear but only mention a sigle turret with 3 guns. so those guns emplacement are unknown)

 

 

 

Source

http://aerophile.over-blog.com/article-capra-r-40-c2-et-r-41-c2-suite-52693410.html (presumably a copy of the original french document)

https://hushkit.net/2016/05/08/top-11-cancelled-french-aircraft/

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/aircraft-mock-ups.38106/page-28

http://alternathistory.com/proekt-tyazhelogo-istrebitelya-capra-r40-frantsiya

Edited by CaID
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oh hell yes! these planes win 1 'murica for being that well armed (sure 6 .30cals is still pretty weak but they're all centered) AND effectively having 360 20mm rounds (the capras win 1 britain for that was well).

 

this is a beefy and well made airframe if it can push 1943/44 speed levels with a pair of just 1000 horsepower engines. love the teardrop design of the forward fuselage and canopy. a good pair of tier 3 heavy fighters.

 

+2

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Has there ever been planes never built but successfully designed in War Thunder, or does Gaijin focuses only on planes that actually flew at least once? Because if we're going for a realistic build, there's a lot of hypothetic data here. I personally love how this plane looks, and would really like to see it in the game, but it's not like it ever came to be, unfortunatly.

Edited by Arghail
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6 hours ago, Arghail said:

Has there ever been planes never built but successfully designed in War Thunder, or does Gaijin focuses only on planes that actually flew at least once? Because if we're going for a realistic build, there's a lot of hypothetic data here. I personally love how this plane looks, and would really like to see it in the game, but it's not like it ever came to be, unfortunatly.

there is a few design that is in the game and wasn't really built. like the E-100 or the Ho-Ri. for the E-100, the tank was about at the same stage of this plane. for the Ho-Ri. the Japanese record they finished 5 tanks but, by pure coincidence, they was all destroyed by drowning them in a lake before the surrender without any witness to tell where is those tank now or any other kind of record that could actually can prove those tank was built. for the hypothetical data, most of the time, they are accurate enough. the french seldom made mistake in the prediction of their performance.

 

and to be honest, France could used some heavy fighter that would be 100% french.

Edited by CaID
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Alright. Thanks for the answer. As I said, I would love to see that plane in the game, as it is dead sexy and I can't imagine how incredible would a 3 barrel machinegun in the rear be. I'm just not delusionnal, and I guess there will be several concepts that'll make it to the game before that, like the more obvious Breguet 693, or the LN 401.

Edited by Arghail
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15 minutes ago, Arghail said:

Alright. Thanks for the answer. As I said, I would love to see that plane in the game, as it is dead sexy and I can't imagine how incredible would a 3 barrel machinegun in the rear be. I'm just not delusionnal, and I guess there will be several concepts that'll make it to the game before that, like the more obvious Breguet 693, or the LN 401.

all good plane, but sometime Gaijin add vehicles according to the need to feel a gap rather than the historical production or importance. in the eventuality that the French air tree split the attacker line into a heavy fighter line and ground attacker line, the tier 3-4 will be harder to fill exept if they consider those american naval fighter as heavy fighter. another interesting plane which i invite you to check in the suggestion is the Se.100 who actually flew and was slower but much more heavily armed. or the Se.580 also suggested which was supposed to be the heir of the D.520, or rather the later member of the family, the D.551/2

 

those are all very good plane that would make the USA jealous.

Edited by CaID
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5 hours ago, CaID said:

all good plane, but sometime Gaijin add vehicles according to the need to feel a gap rather than the historical production or importance. in the eventuality that the French air tree split the attacker line into a heavy fighter line and ground attacker line, the tier 3-4 will be harder to fill exept if they consider those american naval fighter as heavy fighter. another interesting plane which i invite you to check in the suggestion is the Se.100 who actually flew and was slower but much more heavily armed. or the Se.580 also suggested which was supposed to be the heir of the D.520, or rather the later member of the family, the D.551/2

 

those are all very good plane that would make the USA jealous.

5 hours ago, CaID said:

 

I have already seen both of them, as well as the rest of your suggestions for the French tech tree, which were all very fitting. The se 100 would be a really nice addition to be sure, despite the... unconventional look of the plane.

 

Thanks for the hard work by the way.

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No original plan.

No prototype built, just a flightless mock-up. 

No solid sources. "alternative history dot com"...

Performances evaluated only by calculations, right ? No wind tunnel testing ?  No observed data from a similar plane ?

 

The main source says :

Quote

Vous trouverez notamment le document descriptif intégral (et remis en forme mais sans en changer une virgule) établi en 1939 par CAPRA pour obtenir auprès du STAé une commande d’un prototype.

Translation : 'this technical document was made in 1939 and presented to the Staé (the French state body in charge of aeronautics) to obtain the order for a prototype.'

Obviously, the Staé was not convinced of the interest of such a project and never ordered the prototype...

 

The R40/1 looks like a paper UFO...

Not a fan of this type of planes in game.

I prefer viable french made projects/prototypes or foreign made planes that were actually flown by French pilots.

Edited by Lucky_B
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I'm all for it, but the nay-sayers will continue to call its validity into question unless new evidence can be dug up. However, considering how little public information there is out there on the Type 5 Ho-Ri (prototype or production) I'd say that the Capra R40 deserves to be in the game. Even though Gaijin are very careful about what vehicles they add, they sometimes bend the rules if a partially built vehicle is super cool or is desperately needed to fill a spot in the tech tree (like the Maus and the Ho-Ri respectively). So I can only hope they'll treat the Capra R40 the same way.

 

Great suggestion either way!  =D

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very cool +1

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2 hours ago, Reddsquirrel said:

I'm all for it, but the nay-sayers will continue to call its validity into question unless new evidence can be dug up. However, considering how little public information there is out there on the Type 5 Ho-Ri (prototype or production) I'd say that the Capra R40 deserves to be in the game. Even though Gaijin are very careful about what vehicles they add, they sometimes bend the rules if a partially built vehicle is super cool or is desperately needed to fill a spot in the tech tree (like the Maus and the Ho-Ri respectively). So I can only hope they'll treat the Capra R40 the same way.

 

Great suggestion either way!  =D

 

it's not like the Panther II was ever built. or at least finished. it never received the turret. so i got to agree about how is the limit of what is a design that is advanced enough to be serious or what is too much coming out of "alternative history" or "hypothetical vehicles". we have to decide accordingly to the need first of all and keep as much serious data as possible.

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4 hours ago, Sylvius said:

It never flew, end of the story.

i do not think that argument is so heavy that would end the story. far from it, it's not like it was a paper model like some vehicles who are already in the game.

 

that plane wroth consideration. it's a really good plane who's construction was really advance. even more than the 10.5cm Tiger II or the Panther II, even more than the E-100. i do not see why this would be the end of the story for this plane. the armament was fitter, the frame was built, the engine was mounted. only the mermaid flight is uncertain, some source said it did fly but the most credible source state it was not ready yet.

 

and there is plenty reason to add that plane. the first is it would be a good rank 3 plane that would be truly french that would make the rank 3 & 4 less USA. another reason is the plane actually have decent performance, it would be just as good in mix battle as it is in air battle, the plane have good ammunition and good engine. plus it have good armor. that would make it less likely to fall for LMG or even HMG in a longer distance. 8 forward machine-gun and cannon would truly be useful agains't SPAA in mix battle and if you play ground battle in realistic, you will love to have 6000 bullets of 7.5 and 360 rounds of 20mm. especially for the french plane who often have 60 round for each 20mm. that plane also have 60round per gun but can reload his 20mm in the air with 3 mags for each guns.

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9 hours ago, CaID said:

i do not think that argument is so heavy that would end the story. far from it, it's not like it was a paper model like some vehicles who are already in the game.

The logic of Gaijin about aircrafts is not similar to tanks. I know only one exception: the R2Y2 (but without it the japanese rank 5 would be too light).

I agree with you, this plane could be interesting in game, but do not espect having it in your deck one day.

Edited by Sylvius
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20 hours ago, Sylvius said:

It never flew, end of the story.

Did you honestly think that stopped Gaijin before? :lol2:

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On 08/06/2018 at 13:22, Sylvius said:

It never flew, end of the story.

It looks like someone has forgotten about the R2Y2 and the new BF 109Z being in-game. I guess we better pay no attention to such fantasies all while we enjoy every last second of them. I don't understand why the CAPRA couldn't be implemented with these aircraft already here, your opinion I find is quite hypocritical. This is after all a video game not a military simulator.

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