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Semovente Sexton Da 105/22  

101 members have voted

  1. 1. Should it be added in game?

    • Yes
      89
    • No
      12
  2. 2. How would you like to see be added?

    • In the tree as standard
      56
    • As a Premium/Bundle
      24
    • Event/Gift
      10
    • Don't add it
      11


Salutation everyone,

 

I am making this post as part of an offshoot to my pervious one for the upcoming Italian ground forces with the Sexton as a TD. 

 

Note: a lot of the information had to be translated from Italian via Google Translate which lead to some interesting translations. If you see a mistake please let me know. 

f787b26180aed7cec63548529c47f1ea.thumb.j

History

In the post war era Italy was gathering up vehicles to rebuild its armed forces. Among them was the Canadian built Sexton (or as the Italians referred to it, Sexton da 88/27) as Canada had left a majority of their armour behind. The Italians liked the robust vehicle, but found the gun to be a bit underwhelming and underpowered especially as modern day anti-tank weapons were being deployed. Their solution was to remove the QF 25 pounder and replace it with a 10 cm M. 14 Feldhaubitze (obice da 100/17 modello 14) and bore it out to 105mm in 1959 to take the same ammunition as the M4 Sherman 105 mm and added a large muzzle brake creating the obice da 105/22. These Sextons served for several years before being used as targets or converted into monuments.

DSCN0301_Sexton_CellaVarzi_SGallotti_c.t

Stats

pnVSs4b.jpg.cc9f2d2352848588108b880a43df

59fca317c3821_CaratteristicheSemoventeM7

(This one actually had to be restored after being vandalized)

18_sext_varzi.jpg.14eb65d9c8f5b371d0dbea

Ammunition

The Obice da 105/22 was custom built to take 1959 NATO 105mm ammunition. 

 

  • M1 granata ad alto esplosivo
  • M60 proietto nebbiogeno-incendiario
  • M84 proietto nebbiogeno
  • M314 proietto illuminante
  • M67 granata controcarro a caraica cava
  • STRL da esercitazione

 

According to the book "The Italian Army Combat Vehicles" Third Volume (1945-1955) - Pignato-Chaplain" the new gun did decrease the Sextons effective range.

"...which will also lead to the transformation of the pieces to 100/17 and / 22 pieces from 105/22, you decide to perform the same operation on a number of self-propelled 88 replacing the fiery mouth with that from 105/22 to the muzzle brake. Means the conversion from the arsenal of Naples, is shown for the first time to the presentation weapons held in Nettuno (RM) in May 1959, the complex will be named the Sexton Self Propelled by 105/22 M.4 but will lead to a reduction of range from 12,200 to 10,600 of the cannon 88 105/22"

 

Sexton wrecks

Spoiler

sexton09-ridotta-1.jpg.d84a72bd3d96bb9d7sexton03-ridotta.jpg.5e62a76b986722e1129

 

 

16_sexton_vac.jpg.e0785e5aa9b5568b5a2aa0

 

Want more Sextons in game? Head over to my original post for the Sexton in the British Tech Tree

 

Citations

 

The Italian Army Combat Vehicles" Third Volume (1945-1955) - Pignato-Chaplain"

http://www.ferreamole.it/contributi/censimento/censimento_02.htm

http://www.lineachrista.it/?p=782

https://tankandafvnews.com/2015/03/28/from-our-readers-sexton-wrecks-in-italy/

 

Edited by WiseMinerva
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the Semovente Sexton? cool. a 100mm cannon juryrigged into a poor man's L7A3? epic. it'll be interesting to see ingame. what BR would it have though? it may have a 105mm, but it isn't an L7, so how strong would the regular NATO ammo be?

 

+1 anyway.

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9 hours ago, Dundee93 said:

Do you have ammunition information? I can't vote for it to be in the regular tree if it means it will end up as a time traveling low tier TD. 

 

First sorry for the delay in responding. Information on the ammunition has proven difficult, partly due to some very wonky translations but I have come across notes indicating it was possibly to use the ammunition of the m101 howltzer. However I'll continue poking around to see what else can be dug up.

 

1 hour ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

the Semovente Sexton? cool. a 100mm cannon juryrigged into a poor man's L7A3? epic. it'll be interesting to see ingame. what BR would it have though? it may have a 105mm, but it isn't an L7, so how strong would the regular NATO ammo be?

 

+1 anyway.

 

It will be a very interesting to see where it would end up. Neither the gun nor the tank are post war designs.  

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6 minutes ago, WiseMinerva said:

 

First sorry for the delay in responding. Information on the ammunition has proven difficult, partly due to some very wonky translations but I have come across notes indicating it was possibly to use the ammunition of the m101 howltzer. However I'll continue poking around to see what else can be dug up.

 

 

It will be a very interesting to see where it would end up. Neither the gun nor the tank are post war designs.  

Thanks for the effort! It is a cool vehicle, even if it ends up being difficult to balance. 

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So, from the M7 Priest suggestion it says that they have the same gun. So, same ammunition as the M4A3 105mm. So, this may only be viable as an event vehicle or premium, or you'll get time-travelling Sextons. Unless they added new ammo types post war (there may have been a HESH shell developed). 

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2 hours ago, Dundee93 said:

So, from the M7 Priest suggestion it says that they have the same gun. So, same ammunition as the M4A3 105mm. So, this may only be viable as an event vehicle or premium, or you'll get time-travelling Sextons. Unless they added new ammo types post war (there may have been a HESH shell developed). 

I FINALLY found the missing ammo and you were right, it was more in line with the M7 Priest. The m101 was being used as a comparison.

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Just now, Admiral_Aruon said:

but it CAN use early NATO ammo right? like the L7 APDS and HEAT-FS shells?

Nooo, it uses 105mm howitzer ammo. So, whatever the M7 Priest and M4A3 105 get, plus anything designed for it post war. The L7 is (as far as I know) a very different gun. 

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  • 8 months later...

There is also an Italian modification of the M7 Priest: 105/34 gun instead of 105/22.

sourse: http://www.ferreamole.it/images/priest_man/m7_priest_01.htm

"Durante la guerra di Corea, al fine di risolvere l'annoso problema del piccolo angolo d'alzo dell'obice, venne realizzata la serie M7B2 caratterizzata dalla posizione rialzata del pezzo che aumentava l'alzo dagli iniziali 35° ai 65°. Contemporaneamente, per far posto all'obice, si dovette rialzare anche la postazione della mitragliatrice antiaerea aggiungendo un anello a quello esistente.
Dopo la guerra il semovente M7 xxxx in servizio in moltissimi eserciti alleati, non fece eccezione quello italiano che ne adottò un numero considerevole per i suoi reparti di artiglieria semovente. Essi furono progressivamente sostituiti al semovente M109G. Durante il loro servizio nell'E.I. alcuni semoventi furono equipaggiati con un nuovo obice da 105 mm lungo 34 calibri e dotato di freno di bocca."

 

Google translation:

During the Korean War, in order to solve the long-standing problem of the small angle of rise of the hob, the M7B2 series was created, characterized by the raised position of the piece that increased the rise from the initial 35 ° to 65 °. At the same time, to make room for the hob, the position of the anti-aircraft machine gun had to be raised, adding a ring to the existing one. After the war, the self-propelled M7 was in service in many allied armies, with no exception to the Italian one which adopted a considerable number for its self-propelled artillery units. They were progressively replaced by the self-propelled M109G. During their service in E.I. some of the self-propelled vehicles were equipped with a new 105 mm long, 34-gauge howitzer and a muzzle brake.

There was also a photo of this vehicle:

https://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/photo/usa/spg_m7/m7_ita_1.jpg (but it doesn't work anymore, only for me or for everybody, I don't know)

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  • 5 months later...
22 minutes ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

this one is the 105/34? i need to know it for a suggestion and it seems quite a bit more longer then 34 calibers

Unfortunately I don't have any info, except this photo from WoT discussion and this: 

 

On 05/07/2018 at 10:17, _Condottiero_ said:

There is also an Italian modification of the M7 Priest: 105/34 gun instead of 105/22.

sourse: http://www.ferreamole.it/images/priest_man/m7_priest_01.htm

"Durante la guerra di Corea, al fine di risolvere l'annoso problema del piccolo angolo d'alzo dell'obice, venne realizzata la serie M7B2 caratterizzata dalla posizione rialzata del pezzo che aumentava l'alzo dagli iniziali 35° ai 65°. Contemporaneamente, per far posto all'obice, si dovette rialzare anche la postazione della mitragliatrice antiaerea aggiungendo un anello a quello esistente.
Dopo la guerra il semovente M7 xxxx in servizio in moltissimi eserciti alleati, non fece eccezione quello italiano che ne adottò un numero considerevole per i suoi reparti di artiglieria semovente. Essi furono progressivamente sostituiti al semovente M109G. Durante il loro servizio nell'E.I. alcuni semoventi furono equipaggiati con un nuovo obice da 105 mm lungo 34 calibri e dotato di freno di bocca."

 

Google translation:

During the Korean War, in order to solve the long-standing problem of the small angle of rise of the hob, the M7B2 series was created, characterized by the raised position of the piece that increased the rise from the initial 35 ° to 65 °. At the same time, to make room for the hob, the position of the anti-aircraft machine gun had to be raised, adding a ring to the existing one. After the war, the self-propelled M7 was in service in many allied armies, with no exception to the Italian one which adopted a considerable number for its self-propelled artillery units. They were progressively replaced by the self-propelled M109G. During their service in E.I. some of the self-propelled vehicles were equipped with a new 105 mm long, 34-gauge howitzer and a muzzle brake.

There was also a photo of this vehicle:

https://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/photo/usa/spg_m7/m7_ita_1.jpg (but it doesn't work anymore, only for me or for everybody, I don't know)

 

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17 minutes ago, _Condottiero_ said:

Unfortunately I don't have any info, except this photo from WoT discussion and this: 

 

 

thank you, i've added everything i had i hope we can find some more info on it

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  • 3 months later...
  • 6 months later...
14 hours ago, ALIEN109 said:

So it is an italian Priest ?

 

I do not really how it could fit in the game right now. Derp gun meme that won't last long

As far as I recall changes were made to the vehicle like the Italian Sherman it's a unique type, I've published the numbers of the vehicles that served and they are quite a lot so if the Sherman is in game this should be too, plus 1 model for 3 different countries 

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