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Current Team Killing Policy


20 hours ago, Josephs_Piano said:

As I posted above - pushing someone out of cover is a rule violation so is reportable.

 

It has been reported - BUT you will not be notified if the player has been punished - or not.. In fact I'm in doubt, IF they are being punished - and MAYBE it's a waste of time reporting teamkilling behaviour?

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On 11/1/2018 at 9:22 PM, cashmeowsidehbd said:

It would be nice to know for sure that the reports are being noted at least. And I still don't think you should be punished for bombing a teammate that is surrendering on the enemie's airfield!

 

Sometimes I hit a team-mate with a bomber - BUT NEVER ON PURPOSE. From when you drop your bomb -and until it explodes, team mates can by accident move into the area - and even though I apologize for the kill, I'm not always the guilty one. In the heat of the battle, it's impossible to avoid such things .. or maybe I just have to practice my bombing precision.

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I haven't read all the posts. Did someone discuss about the artillery strike on teammate who enter the attack area himself but not the intention from the caller.
This is not the first time that I got this punishment and lost much SL. It is out of my control that I cannot stop him and stop fire. So why punish me!? :dntknw: Should the rule be changed if the teammate go into the area himself?

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On 27/11/2017 at 5:29 PM, Fa11enPhoenix said:

Slow clap time... my AI gunners just shot past the hostile Wyvern that was chasing me and insta killed the friendly Yak 3 that was chasing him...

 

-24K SL because the AI decided to make me a team killer...  :facepalm:

I guess that investing in crew training and manning the gunners manually may give better results... This is the first case of a teamkill by AI gunners that I've ever heard of though...

 

Sometimes, accidents happen.

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This has been a long time coming. I have had not one, but two games today when I died more times to friendly aircraft than to enemy aircraft. Out of eight teamkills in about four hours of gameplay, half of them were from ramming. One of them was almost certainly intentional, while the rest were probably just greedy pilots not watching where they are going when trying to steal a kill from me or a teammate. Being teamkilled is annoying enough, but being rammed by an ally, especially when that ally survives (this happened twice in my last gameplay session,) is beyond infuriating. Gaijn, please, fix this. No, I don't expect every crap player to turn into a competent teamate overnight, but small steps like a ramming penalty might encourage at least some players to think about what they did that caused them to teamkill (assuming unintentional,) and take away another of a troll's common trolling methods.

 

Additionally, team damage, along with teamkills, needs a stiffer penalty. I have had players intentionally light me and several allies up at the beginning of the match, leaving me to try to fight fully functional enemy aircraft with half a wing missing or a damaged engine, all while they were suffering very little in the way of penalty. This needs to stop. Reporting these players as teamkillers does not seem to be having enough effect, if any, as there are still far too many teamkillers and team damagers in the game.

_Catweazle_63 (Posted )

merged with the existing, pinned , team killing thread
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First off, I'd like to state that I've been around since this game was in original alpha testing and I received an invite as a tester.

 

That said, I've probably never had an issue that warranted posting on the forums. I may not agree with some of the ways things are handled or rules in the game, but I realize that is personal preference and I don't complain about it.

 

However, this team-killing automated ban system (which I just so happened to find out about today, due to a 1 day ban I received) is ineffective and hurts the game community.  I've never in my multiple years playing this game managed to trigger this ban system, but somehow did today after two or three friendly aircraft crossing into streams of fire in pursuit of enemy aircraft and damaging their aircraft beyond survivability.  I think an AI ground unit that also got hit and destroyed by a 20mm cannon while I was chasing a bomber also contributed, as well as a team mate that slammed into me head on after I destroyed the enemy that was attacking him head on (which the team mate even apologized for). All of this happened over multiple different matches.

 

I am always, with very rare exception, one of the top scorers on my team, if not the top in the whole match.  This makes me wonder how many people have been adversely effected by this automated system that can't properly differentiate between team-killing, and collateral damage caused in the heat of battle.

 

Real team killing and team damaging is an issue that needs to be addressed, but this is not the right way to do it.

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1 hour ago, GunmetalWolf said:

First off, I'd like to state that I've been around since this game was in original alpha testing and I received an invite as a tester.

 

That said, I've probably never had an issue that warranted posting on the forums. I may not agree with some of the ways things are handled or rules in the game, but I realize that is personal preference and I don't complain about it.

 

However, this team-killing automated ban system (which I just so happened to find out about today, due to a 1 day ban I received) is ineffective and hurts the game community.  I've never in my multiple years playing this game managed to trigger this ban system, but somehow did today after two or three friendly aircraft crossing into streams of fire in pursuit of enemy aircraft and damaging their aircraft beyond survivability.  I think an AI ground unit that also got hit and destroyed by a 20mm cannon while I was chasing a bomber also contributed, as well as a team mate that slammed into me head on after I destroyed the enemy that was attacking him head on (which the team mate even apologized for). All of this happened over multiple different matches.

 

I am always, with very rare exception, one of the top scorers on my team, if not the top in the whole match.  This makes me wonder how many people have been adversely effected by this automated system that can't properly differentiate between team-killing, and collateral damage caused in the heat of battle.

 

Real team killing and team damaging is an issue that needs to be addressed, but this is not the right way to do it.

 

This game needs more TK punishment, not less. I'd happily eat a temporary ban if it had too many friendlies fall to my guns. I pride myself on not even hitting friendlies, but in the heat of battle and with blue tags obscured by red ones accidents sometimes happens.

 

I had one guy TK two team mates just so he could cap the airfield. I had another that flew around putting bullets into at least half the team, including a full TK of me. Showed up in a match the next day and flew normal for most of the match. But as the tickets were bleeding away and no one were likely to get within firing distance of an enemy before the end, he turned and put a burst into a friendly bomber. I reported both. Both are still happily flying around.

 

It boils down to this: Gaijin wants two things from you: Buy stuff (premium account, vehicles, GE) and they want you to play a lot to keep the servers full.

 

Look at how Gaijin react to others "threats" to the game;

 

Buying bundles that were originally purchased with stolen credit cards: Instant perma-ban.

Cheating with 3rd party software: Instant perma-ban.

Foul language in the chat: Chat ban.

Forbidden symbols (like Swastikas and whatnot): Actually, I don't know how that's punished, but I'm willing to bet repeat offenses very quickly leads to a perma-ban.

Teamkilling? Meh. If you're really unlucky you'll be banned for a day.

 

This is not a coincidence. Stolen keys etc. literally cost Gaijin money here and now. Hacks and cheats will have players running away in droves. Foul language: Gaijin don't want to deal with Mrs. Soccer Mom and her rabid Facebook friends because someone dropped the F-bomb on little Timmy, and they definitely don't want to run afoul of cyber-bullying laws in various countries and jurisdictions. Forbidden symbols are outlawed in various countries, and not being able to market the game there would slash the player base overnight.

 

How many leaves here and now because of teamkilling? It's more of a slow grind on your motivation to play, especially if you don't have something to grind for. I'm running out of the latter in the not too distant future (I'm not going to play beyond BR 5.3, nor grind the Italian and French tech trees unless they get a lot bigger). And then teamkilling goes from being a serious annoyance to the "Top 3 List Of Things That Make Me Quit War Thunder". It's just not as immediate and obvious as the other transgressions mentioned above. It's much easier to notice players not coming back after TK bans.

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I have had people team kill me and laugh about it and not get banned, yet I say one word and get a 30 day chat ban lol.  A lot of it doesn't make any sense.  From my experience people who monitor pick and choose and don't hold people to the same standard.  Should be the same rules and consequences for everyone across the board.  In my experience that isn't the way I have seen it.

Edited by ScRaTcHyMcSnIfF
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Happened again  yesterday, I was shooting an enemy tank by using a fighter in GF AB. Another teammate also used his fighter shooting on it but he still flied towards the tank and crash him. I did not expect he would crash to the tank while I shooting the tank and of course also shot him. His plane lost was then attributed me!! I got plenty by deducting 5k SL!! :facepalm:

It is not fair to me for his behavior and the plenty cost is too high! Why the accidental shooting on his free plane requires 5k SL ??

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On 2/3/2018 at 11:56 PM, ScRaTcHyMcSnIfF said:

I have had people team kill me and laugh about it and not get banned, yet I say one word and get a 30 day chat ban lol.  A lot of it doesn't make any sense.  From my experience people who monitor pick and choose and don't hold people to the same standard.  Should be the same rules and consequences for everyone across the board.  In my experience that isn't the way I have seen it.

 

I had people push my tank in front of enemy fire on purpose laughing at me after so many times... i doubt they get banned really so they repeat the action.

 

I think truly only the legit AAA companies can afford to ban people as much, War Thunder doesn`t have that many players overall so banning them is probably more rare. Games with millions of active concurrent players can just ban them left and right there will be a lot more left.

 

I say that because they are oh so secretive about who then punish for what or if they were actually banning people, they would be transparent. I played a lof of games where the GM would tell you the player got  punished and even how, while in the ones where its all secret, the player was still in my list and active and the secret was.... they did nothing.


Lame because they should police their own game but i guess why spend resources... so people push you, rub against your tank all the game to prevent you from shooting and so on, had people follow me the whole game to just crash into me and make sure i never shoot accurately and get destroyed.... maybe its a Russian thing i do not know but in every AAA Western MMO that would be harassment and they would get banned. 

 

In War Thunder, that is just normal and you either accept the 10 year old mentality, or leave i guess.... because they are sure not policing it.
 

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And today I met in a RB fight a really gentleman and who was a really good use to the team!

 

This pilot uses a name *edited* and he is playing in level 100! So he is a really big hero! Well in fight on Normandy map this fellow just CLIMBED so hard with hes (premium)

P-63 that he kind of missed the whole fight! Well I did kind of say to him that he could do something useful to the team! It was 2vs.3 situation!

 

And he did. He just dived down at the alt of 9km and teamkilled me. And basicly he did ruin whole teams game at the situation what could be a win.

So keep eye on this name! *edited* !!

We want that these team heros get banned so they can play with duplos or what ever they have!

Spoiler

shot 2018.02.09 00.07.45.jpgshot 2018.02.09 00.12.48.jpgshot 2018.02.09 00.13.32.jpgshot 2018.02.09 00.06.45.jpg

Edited by _Catweazle_63
name and shame removed + multiple screenshots added to spoiler

_Catweazle_63 (Posted )

This is not a name and shame thread nor a witch hunt thread!!. Report the culprit ingame and be done with it!
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So I just had a match in my B-25 in which an enemy Bf 109F-4 that had been set afire by a friendly Yak-9T decided to attack me. They both came within 1km and the Bf 109 started shooting at me, so I of course shot back despite him being on fire. I took off his wing and continued onwards, however the Yak-9T decided that it was a killsteal, despite him being unable to kill the darn Bf 109, AND having him shooting at me, so the Yak-9T decided to shoot me down. And due to Gaijins horrible Teamkilling policy, all I could do was... Get shot at and do nothing. Loose the plane, the match, pay repair costs, and pray that the system works.

 

I cannot stress enough that it is a horrible system, and it is in need of change. The reason for there being so many teamkillers is not just that there are people who are aholes, it's that the system is so utterly broken they know they won't get punished for doing it.

The system needs to deter people from teamkilling in the first place, and harshly punish those that do anyway. And no, loosing a few thousand lions is NOT working.

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I have been confirmed by Gaijin that you will not be punished for "just a few" offenses / teamkills - but only by repeated team killings.

 

Therefore, an assault on a team-mate is "completely free" if you do not repeat this behavior. Therefore a "revenge" must also be "completely free" ?

 

What kind of justice is that ?.. If you kill someone, then it's OK .. as long as you do not continue killing ? :-) .. hmmm.. then I will start to pay some "Hitmen" to kill those teamkillers. 

 

Then we just need a page VK or a Facebook, where we can publish these teamkillers .. and make a price on their heads. Nice company policy (a few kills are acceptable) .. but this will lead into internal wars ..and I'm the first to offer a price to a Hitman, who will hunt some of those team killers down for good. 

 

I have spend approximately half an hour to make documentation for the teamkilling (photos, link etc.) and then NOTHING happens to the teamkiller.. so why making the report in the first place?.. From my perspective it's WASTE OF TIME making reports, if nothing happens anyway. One could get the idea, that players who PAY their Premium account and Premium vehicles, will not be punished as fast as players who do not spend money on the game ? The LAW must be equal to all players, and therefore I suggest, that Gaijin ask a panel of fair-playing players to take control on this process - so we can get rid of these team-killers once and for all. 

 

Ohh Yes.. I have killed team-mates .. NOT on purpose.. but by accidents only.. and it's easy to see, what's "on purpose" and what is "unpremeditated" kills. 

Edited by SollyBam
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The automated TK system keeps track of Team Kills over a longer period so "just a few" team kills will be detected and be dealt with appropriate.

Do you TK by accident in a match then you get a "out-of-jail-free-card" because accidents happen.

 

But when you reach the battle-, daily- and/or weekly-limit then there are consequences.

 

20 minutes ago, SollyBam said:

Then we just need a page VK or a Facebook, where we can publish these teamkillers .. and make a price on their heads. Nice company policy (a few kills are acceptable) .. but this will lead into internal wars ..and I'm the first to offer a price to a Hitman, who will hunt some of those team killers down for good. 

 

This is exactly what we are trying to avoid: self justice also called revenge killing and witch hunts where biased players think they can be judge and jury.

The automated system AND the Game Masters are more then capable to deal with team killers.

 

I suggest to read the opening post by Scarper again!

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I have reported a "team" player, who ON PURPOSE - AND without any previous contact started crashing into my tank.. and continuing doing so.. until the game ended. I reported the player, and send an email to FlyingLeathrneck with screenshots and a link to the battle. This was not "by accident" .. but 100% on purpose. The player was not punished and he continued playing other battles. My point is - IF team-killing is not being punished the first time - but first after some more dirty team-killings, then we have to stop these team-killers ourselves... self-justice or not. 

 

This is the answer I got when reporting the team-killer:

 

"Keep reporting teamkillers using the in-game report system?  Also, the game has an autoban system in place for teamkillers.  If they keep doing it, they will get banned from the game a certain amount of time for teamkilling.  Players who have a lengthy history of TK bans are looked at more closely so continue filing in-game complaints against them for it.  Other than that, there isn't anything else we can do."

 

Please read the "if they KEEP doing it" - they will get banned.... 

 

I'm playing the game for fun ..and not for having teammates attacking me from behind .. This is a sick behaviour. If team-killing is not stopped when we report a player and the player just continue playing, I can meet him again and again on the battlefield, until someone is stopping his behaviour. If you are not stopping the team-killing - then we have to take revenge ourselves.. and this .. only because nothing happens. I'm not playing WT to be a victim for someone's frustrations and / or aggressions.  

 

You ask us to make team-killing reports - and IF the player continue his team-killing, then he will be punished. This means (as I read your policy), that the one time team-killing on me, will not have any consequences.. or what ?.. The fact is, that the player who attacked me "out of the blue" continued to play additional battles (4 days after my report).. and therefore NOTHING HAPPENED.   

 

 

Edited by SollyBam
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Artillery, Bombing and Plane-fight accidents. 

 

This is comparable with traffic accidents. Sometimes it's (A) who's guilty, sometimes it's (B) who's guilty and sometimes it's both (A and B) who's guilty. The difference is when TK happens ON PURPOSE and for whatever reason. 

 

ALL direct TK's and attempts to destroy your game / vehicle should be punished - but accidents not. Sometimes players are getting upset, because a player have "parked" his tank and therefore are not participating in the battle - BUT there can be a lot of reasons for being "offline". You can be in a plane, you can be disconnected, you can be busy doing other things .. or something else. Getting upset should not be a reason to TK .. and in fact, there are NO reasons for TK.  It's just a game .. and not a question about life and death. 

Edited by SollyBam
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On 10/26/2017 at 3:31 AM, Hardmoor said:

if you want to teach people something they need to be punished for doing it wrong,

Sim doesn't exclude anyone that wants to learn how to play properly.

 

(since there are no TK between tanks in AB and RB, no one can say Sim is for the Masterrace that can distinguish tanks)

In fact, in my very last match I got nuked by a teammate's artillery. He dropped it on a tank right next to him while several teammates (including me) were all around trying to kill the tank that was killing him. His arty dropped on my head and killed me. This happened a day or so ago too when a teammate dropped arty on a cap we were taking even though there was no reason to think any enemies were actually there. The arty discipline and common sense is often lacking.

Also, you can team-kill friendly planes from the ground in RB, as well as kill friendly tanks in RB with bombs or rockets, which has also happened to me recently. If two or three SPAA are firing at an enemy plane and a friendly plane swoops in for the kill and flies through the AA fire he can be team-killed. He kind of deserves it for that, but the poor SPAA still has to pay up.

I'm still a little butt-hurt by a guy in an Air RB I played a week or so ago where a guy starts shooting up my plane right after we took off. It wasn't an accidental button push. It was several aimed bursts spread out over my plane to damage me severely but he deliberately attempted not to kill me. I reported him. He shot up some other friendly in the same match. I tried to land and repair but my plane was so shot up I broke up on the runway and couldn't repair, so I got assessed something like 8 or 10k repair bill for it. I saw the same doojhbag doing the same thing two or three matches later. I can only hope the guy got banned at some point. I reported him the second time too.

I'm a firm believer that "that'll teach you not to rush into battle" or "someone could use it as a way to avoid repair costs in their 50k SL TU-4 by having their buddy shoot them down before the enemy can" arguments are lame, in that the harm done to a genuine team-killed victim outweighs any potential lesson that might be taught, or avoidance of some obscure exploit possibility.

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I have made my mind! If this is the great Gaijin answer to player's so at this moment I don't give them any money of mine. 

 

Well actually I don't have been given much but no more € from me!

 

Thanx to those Warbonds and Wagers I can have GE and buy Premium planes!

 

Today one idiot shot me down just after the start of RB! I was trying to get my Special Task of taking out 15 bases. Well that low IQ moron did get pissed of my bomb load at my P-47 and just shotted me with out of any provocation! Thanx to one of NmY squad mate he did see this too.

 

So no more money from my bank account!

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The game should be changed to no way to team kill in AB rather than set a lot of team kill policies. Artillery, bomb should also be no hurt to teammate (or just a few hurt but will not die). Tank is unable to push other friendly tank who is still alive.
Friendly fire should be no hurt to both friendly tanks and planes. Why not in arcade battle?

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35 minutes ago, *samhwy said:

The game should be changed to no way to team kill in AB rather than set a lot of team kill policies. Artillery, bomb should also be no hurt to teammate (or just a few hurt but will not die). Tank is unable to push other friendly tank who is still alive.
Friendly fire should be no hurt to both friendly tanks and planes. Why not in arcade battle?

No TK mechanic in AB?  Bad idea... Friendly Fire was and is a way that vehicles were taken out.  Imagine all the AB players that move to RB/SB and shoot at their teammates for fun... and kill them because they did not realize that it was possible to do so.

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The absolute least Gaijin could do would be to add a function in which you could mark a teamkill as deliberate or accidental. Don't punish accidental team killings, and create harsher punishments for those who do it deliberately.

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