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Chieftain MK 10


25 minutes ago, TheBakedPotato said:

Except Gaijins love for brawling in city streets on postage stamp sized maps means you rarely get the chance to exploit this. It should not have to grind for APFSDS, thats just gaijin adding in uneccessary grind for the sake of "screw you"

 

At the end of the day, other than the turret, the Mk10 is a 7.7 gun, on a 7.3 hull with the mobility of a King Tiger and shoddy gun accuracy at 9.0 that gets stomped by T64 God Tanks and the ABC70's. The Front of the turret doesn't make up for it, the only thing that "saves" it is fin, if you could be bothered suffering the grind for it...

 

Grinding is part of the game, get some GE if you really hate it but there's no point whining about it. Moreover, '70s have a similarly bad grind before they can get an APFSDS round - I'd rather have the Chieftain's stock APDS than a Shillelagh.

 

As for performance against 9.0 vehicles, the Chieftain does just fine in my experience and looking at general stats it's making a good account of itself. Bear in mind that it is different, so don't play it like a T-64 or a '70. There's plenty of tutorial info out there on all the Chieftains on the forums and YouTube, they will perform well if you understand their limitations and play them correctly.

 

6 minutes ago, MTom said:

Well you are really wrong here by basically all your points....the Chieftain is a snail. Fully upgraded it's straight line speed is ok(ish), but it can't turn...at all. So anything closer than 100meter can run around you...especially city maps which are very-very common.

It's stabilization basically accounts for nothing as you won't see more than 15-20km/h anyways so no run and gun with this tank. The frontal profile if not hull down is 40% paper thin lower plate, and the T54s with APD can pen the turret just fine.

T54s are not easy to OHK, only in one spot if you have a side shot, and can hit the fuel tank/ammo next to the driver...AND if your APDS doesn't get eaten by the fuel tank. If you hit center mass, the most likely what happens is the loader/commander eats the APDS and the tank stays completely functional.

 

I can't be bothered to write out a complete tutorial for the Chieftains, there is plenty of material on how to use them. They're good tanks and not in need of BR reductions (aside from the Mk. 5 which should either get APFSDS or a BR reduction). They have limitations but playing them correctly means playing to their strengths, which are abundant.

 

As for OHKing T-series tanks:

  1. Don't aim for the ammo, explosions are not as reliable as they used to be and since rounds were individually modeled in the DM the racks are often too empty to reliably hit (since APHE users only need ~10 rounds per game)
  2. If engaging frontally, aim for the right side of the hull/driver for a very reliable OHK through driver-gunner-commander
  3. If engaging from the side, aim for the turret side to kill gunner-commander-loader

Obviously situations can vary, sometimes you NEED to disable their firepower, sometimes you NEED to immobilise them. Generally however, T-series are very easy to OHK with a Chieftain's APDS.

 

6 minutes ago, MTom said:

LOL 9.0 is the only place for MK10? Sorry but this is not a sane sentence...it has nothing to do there. Properly positioned? The battle is over by the time you get out of your spawn...on Fulda by the time my Chieftain got close to the castle 2 T64s were behind out team....not even KPZs which are even faster, but T64s. You can't even get close to caps because all the KPZs, T64s and rockettanks are all in position looking at paths by the time you lumber out your spawn. Even if you do get to a hull down position what happens is rocket in the face, if your turret protects you gun broke anyway, retreat-repair, and...of fk they know my hiding place it's compromised...but i cant move elswhere because i'm a snail and i got instakilled if i leave my hidihole.

 

Sorry to have to say this but, git gud. I have no problems dealing with the opposition in my Mk.10 and neither do most players going by the general statistics for the tank.

 

Again, there are plenty of tutorials out there on how to play the Chieftains - the fact that you're even talking about cap points illustrates the issue you're having though. You WILL be the last one to the cap so there is ZERO point in getting killed trying to reach it.

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10 minutes ago, Trogerr said:

 

Same story here bro... playin with british top is a real suffer...:( realy unbalanced

 

Well at 9.0 i can only have kills basically if someone runs in front of my barrel. I usually try to get in a cover spot no more than 100 meters away from the spawn otherwise i get instakilled.

Examples:

 

Poland: if you start from the east you are screwed. South east spawn..you can't move halfway to C and you get sniped from sniper hill...North east spawn you can't reach the city because a KPZ or similar will be kill you from the hill on the other side of the lake. So you hunker down at the spawn and look for targets...no need to mention how big of a help this is for your team.

 

Normandy: If you start by East and can get up to sniper point you can have 1-2 kills..if you don't find an enemy KPZ behind you by the time you climb the hill...West...i made my way to the city, took the first left and there were to enemies waiting for you already....one-corner-from-the-spawn.

 

IMHO the only maps Chieftain can do reasonably well at 9.0 is the flat part of Sinai, where it can fight the other tanks hull down, and they can't flank you unnoticed, and Maginot (except the city part) where the shallow hills are great for hiding, you can snipe, and you don't need to make sharp turns.

 

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2 hours ago, HammyTheHamster1 said:

 

Grinding is part of the game, get some GE if you really hate it but there's no point whining about it. Moreover, '70s have a similarly bad grind before they can get an APFSDS round - I'd rather have the Chieftain's stock APDS than a Shillelagh.

 

As for performance against 9.0 vehicles, the Chieftain does just fine in my experience and looking at general stats it's making a good account of itself. Bear in mind that it is different, so don't play it like a T-64 or a '70. There's plenty of tutorial info out there on all the Chieftains on the forums and YouTube, they will perform well if you understand their limitations and play them correctly.

 

 

I can't be bothered to write out a complete tutorial for the Chieftains, there is plenty of material on how to use them. They're good tanks and not in need of BR reductions (aside from the Mk. 5 which should either get APFSDS or a BR reduction). They have limitations but playing them correctly means playing to their strengths, which are abundant.

 

As for OHKing T-series tanks:

  1. Don't aim for the ammo, explosions are not as reliable as they used to be and since rounds were individually modeled in the DM the racks are often too empty to reliably hit (since APHE users only need ~10 rounds per game)
  2. If engaging frontally, aim for the right side of the hull/driver for a very reliable OHK through driver-gunner-commander
  3. If engaging from the side, aim for the turret side to kill gunner-commander-loader

Obviously situations can vary, sometimes you NEED to disable their firepower, sometimes you NEED to immobilise them. Generally however, T-series are very easy to OHK with a Chieftain's APDS.

 

 

Sorry to have to say this but, git gud. I have no problems dealing with the opposition in my Mk.10 and neither do most players going by the general statistics for the tank.

 

Again, there are plenty of tutorials out there on how to play the Chieftains - the fact that you're even talking about cap points illustrates the issue you're having though. You WILL be the last one to the cap so there is ZERO point in getting killed trying to reach it.

 

 

I'm sure you have no problem handling the KPZs when you are on Sinai, hull down halfway between the spawn an C point and rocketed to crap by them from the other side of the map fromthe top of the hill less than 1 min into the battle.

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6 minutes ago, MTom said:

I'm sure you have no problem handling the KPZs when you are on Sinai, hull down halfway between the spawn an C point and rocketed to crap by them from the other side of the map fromthe top of the hill less than 1 min into the battle.

 

I'm not quite sure what kind of point you think you're making. I have the Mk.10 and have played plenty of games in it. I know how it feels against it's equivalents and how battles with it generally pan out.

 

EDIT: That's also a terrible position, why on earth would you attempt to rush C on Sinai in any Chieftain?

Edited by HammyTheHamster1
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Sooo i was curious how in the hell could it be that my gun always brakes o frontal encounters.

 

I did find out. Basically if the enemy shoots me anywhere on the front glacis the shot will bounce up and into the breach

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Finally got this tank yesterday and I must say it was a really pleasant surprise. It seems to feel [itself] rather good in top-tier matches. I bought the repair kit since I'm no masochist and decided to see if the stock APDS was relevant, and it was. The encounters with T-64's are few and far between, mostly because we're usually on the same team, and they rarely face me frontally when we do find each other on the opposing sides. The L15A3 round makes short work of the rest; more than enough for T-54's, KPZ's, Leopards, Type-74's and the like. Overall, even being almost fully stock, I didn't feel like being at a major disadvantage. Definitely not going to spend another 1.5k GE to get the APFSDS.

Edited by I_fly_as_Fltrshy
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1 hour ago, I_fly_as_Fltrshy said:

Finally got this tank yesterday and I must say it was a really pleasant surprise. It seems to feel [itself] rather good in top-tier matches. I bought the repair kit since I'm no masochist and decided to see if the stock APDS was relevant, and it was. The encounters with T-64's are few and far between, mostly because we're usually on the same team, and they rarely face me frontally when we do find each other on the opposing sides. The L15A3 round makes short work of the rest; more than enough for T-54's, KPZ's, Leopards, Type-74's and the like. Overall, even being almost fully stock, I didn't feel like being at a major disadvantage. Definitely not going to spend another 1.5k GE to get the APFSDS.

 

You've been lucky being teamed with USSR mostly, from experience you will meet t64a's more than 70% of the time sadly

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2 hours ago, I_fly_as_Fltrshy said:

Finally got this tank yesterday and I must say it was a really pleasant surprise. It seems to feel [itself] rather good in top-tier matches. I bought the repair kit since I'm no masochist and decided to see if the stock APDS was relevant, and it was. The encounters with T-64's are few and far between, mostly because we're usually on the same team, and they rarely face me frontally when we do find each other on the opposing sides. The L15A3 round makes short work of the rest; more than enough for T-54's, KPZ's, Leopards, Type-74's and the like. Overall, even being almost fully stock, I didn't feel like being at a major disadvantage. Definitely not going to spend another 1.5k GE to get the APFSDS.

 

Oh what...playa few days and you will see USA/Brits facing Russia/Germany(and usually France) 90% of the time. Then you will have a hard time full T64 Kpz teams point and click you to pieces while you try to aim for the weakspost with the puny APDS.

After some struggle the APFSDS will be a big help

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You were right about the MM, I tried playing at prime-time today and most of the games the Russkies were on the enemy team. Still enjoying the tank though. Probably just because my expectations were way too low. It's definitely playable, although no match for the T-64 in the WT meta. KPZ's, however, are not scary at all and are quite easy to kill.

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2 hours ago, I_fly_as_Fltrshy said:

You were right about the MM, I tried playing at prime-time today and most of the games the Russkies were on the enemy team. Still enjoying the tank though. Probably just because my expectations were way too low. It's definitely playable, although no match for the T-64 in the WT meta. KPZ's, however, are not scary at all and are quite easy to kill.

 

Yeah it can still work, just depends on the map, still have a long way to go to spade mine, got all gun mods and working on mobility now its just a kick in the teeth getting to a good hulldown position for the battle that was going off to of moved to the other side of the map :D

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They won't be non-penning shots, prior to the all gun breeches in the game being increased to 300mm of structural steel (from a prior value of something like 30mm) turret penetrations around the gun barrel would reliably kill a chieftain.

 

Nowadays those kinds of weakspots tend to just disable the gun.

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5 minutes ago, HammyTheHamster1 said:

They won't be non-penning shots, prior to the all gun breeches in the game being increased to 300mm of structural steel (from a prior value of something like 30mm) turret penetrations around the gun barrel would reliably kill a chieftain.

 

Nowadays those kinds of weakspots tend to just disable the gun.

Well it has happened repeatedly today, and blows apart the idea that the mk10 is a "hull down beast" if its getting penned though the stilbrew at the ranges this has been occurring at.

 

I'll add it to the APCBC round that took a 90 degrees turn through my loaders periscope and killed my Jumbo earlier today for my "weird things that happen in warthunder" list

Edited by TheBakedPotato
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12 minutes ago, TheBakedPotato said:

Well it has happened repeatedly today, and blows apart the idea that the mk10 is a "hull down beast" if its getting penned though the stilbrew at the ranges this has been occurring at.

 

I'll add it to the APCBC round that took a 90 degrees turn through my loaders periscope and killed my Jumbo earlier today for my "weird things that happen in warthunder" list

 

All the Chieftains are solid hull down, but that doesn't mean you can just sit there and let people aim at you - they will find weakspots like the gun trunions and cupolas if you give a competent player time to do so.

 

You can make it much harder for them if you keep a little bit of motion; back away between shots rather than sitting stationary, wiggle the turret slightly left and right etc.

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35 minutes ago, HammyTheHamster1 said:

 

All the Chieftains are solid hull down, but that doesn't mean you can just sit there and let people aim at you - they will find weakspots like the gun trunions and cupolas if you give a competent player time to do so.

 

You can make it much harder for them if you keep a little bit of motion; back away between shots rather than sitting stationary, wiggle the turret slightly left and right etc.

unlike t64's eh, who dont have to do any of those things

 

Stop defending this obvious bias Hammy, chieftain is not competitive at 9.0, its a 7.7 gun an 8.0 chasis

 

Edited by TheBakedPotato
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1 hour ago, TheBakedPotato said:

God knows why, but i am still trying with the mk10...., continually losing my gun breech to non penetrating rounds wihout a repair kit = fun gaming

 

I paid yellow birds for parts on all chiefs as i had flash backs to the conq stock and the amount of games my breach and barrel got disabled before id got more than a min into the game xD

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2 minutes ago, grrumpy said:

 

I paid yellow birds for parts on all chiefs as i had flash backs to the conq stock and the amount of games my breach and barrel got disabled before id got more than a min into the game xD

Its a sick joke. Having flashback to the days of all the Tiger drivers telling the Sherman plays to "flank".."aim for weakspots" etc while never having to do any of that themselves, until the m18 came along, then they freaked out until they nerfed its ROF, slowed it down and jacked its BR up, just like they did the Black Prince

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1 hour ago, TheBakedPotato said:

unlike t64's eh, who dont have to do any of those things

 

Stop defending this obvious bias Hammy, chieftain is not competitive at 9.0, its a 7.7 gun an 8.0 chasis

 

You aren't aware that you can penetrate a T-64 through the turret around the barrel? It's a reliable way to disable them and kill 1 crew member if they sit there and let you aim carefully at the weakspot - exactly the same as the Chieftain.

 

I'm not sure how you can possibly think that the Mk. 10's gun, with virtually the best round in the game currently, could belong down at 7.7.

 

Bottom line though, stop feeding BS to the whiners. Just because you're uncompetitive at 9.0 doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the tank.

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Well if there wouldn't be a 150k RP grind to the APFSDS that would make it much better. You know like the "other" nations tanks which get it as a base gor free.

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On 3/7/2018 at 10:44 PM, HammyTheHamster1 said:

 

You aren't aware that you can penetrate a T-64 through the turret around the barrel? It's a reliable way to disable them and kill 1 crew member if they sit there and let you aim carefully at the weakspot - exactly the same as the Chieftain.

 

I'm not sure how you can possibly think that the Mk. 10's gun, with virtually the best round in the game currently, could belong down at 7.7.

 

Bottom line though, stop feeding BS to the whiners. Just because you're uncompetitive at 9.0 doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the tank.

Again, that old argument of "aim for "X" weakspot" when   not asking other to do the same, and it is not reliable at anything approaching normal combat ranges in this game, especially with the way the gun has recently started to spray ammo everywhere. Its handling bears no relation to what it "should" be.

 

"best gun in the game" is a matter of opinion, especially with when you are stuck with the stock APDS shell which is well documented as being underperforming, but that is an entirely moot point as  (surprise surprise) that will go to mother Russia when 1.77 drops, and by a very clear margin if the Dev stats are anything to go by.

 

Bottom line though, spend some time looking at the "bug" threads on the chieftain, this thing and its ammo is broken and many many people have shown resources that prove it, and it is hopeless outclassed in a game that builds nearly all its gameplay around knife fighting in streets or cap rushing, and it is hopeless at both

Edited by TheBakedPotato
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3 hours ago, TheBakedPotato said:

Again, that old argument of "aim for "X" weakspot" when   not asking other to do the same, and it is not reliable at anything approaching normal combat ranges in this game, especially with the way the gun has recently started to spray ammo everywhere. Its handling bears no relation to what it "should" be.

 

What is the matter with you? You complain that Stillbrew is unreliable because people can aim for the weakspot around the gun barrel but the exact same weakspot on the T-64A doesn't count somehow?

 

3 hours ago, TheBakedPotato said:

"best gun in the game" is a matter of opinion, especially with when you are stuck with the stock APDS shell which is well documented as being underperforming, but that is an entirely moot point as  (surprise surprise) that will go to mother Russia when 1.77 drops, and by a very clear margin if the Dev stats are anything to go by.

 

It is a matter of fact that the Mk.10's APFSDS is currently the best direct fire munition in the game, it's the best munition in the game entirely if you don't rate ATGMs highly (which I don't particularly).

 

In the current state of the game APFSDS is by far the best shell type, of all these in the game the Chieftain has the best penetration (followed closely by the Object 120) and one of the best reload speeds (beaten by the T-64A only IIRC).

 

Tanks that haven't been added yet are moot, it's completely pointless to try and balance a vehicle by it's stock characteristics and the devs are working on fixes to APDS (L15 is being changed in the upcoming patch in fact).

 

3 hours ago, TheBakedPotato said:

Bottom line though, spend some time looking at the "bug" threads on the chieftain, this thing and its ammo is broken and many many people have shown resources that prove it, and it is hopeless outclassed in a game that builds nearly all its gameplay around knife fighting in streets or cap rushing, and it is hopeless at both

 

The Chieftains don't suit the meta very well - entirely true and the worst criticism you could make of them from a balance perspective. Sure I don't much like taking them into cities (will often spawn a Falcon instead if not facing USSR) but don't ignore the presence of maps like Maginot which are perfect for Chieftains.

 

The APDS rounds do under-perform currently which hurts the Mk.3 & 5, however these are being buffed and even in their current state the Mk. 3 is a strong vehicle.

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On 3/10/2018 at 2:09 AM, HammyTheHamster1 said:

 

What is the matter with you? You complain that Stillbrew is unreliable because people can aim for the weakspot around the gun barrel but the exact same weakspot on the T-64A doesn't count somehow?

 

 

If  you hit that weakspot then yes, i agree, but I'm saying there are  direct hits to the stillbrew that should not penetrate but are still transferring damage internally to nothing but the gun breech.. There are more than a few in these forums who have said the same thing.

 

But then again, i think Barrels and Breaches should be buffed all round and only be damaged by direct hits, losing them to splash damage or shrapnel is a bit weak

 

And i disagree that vehicle should not be balanced by their stock configurations, but i have long held that gaijin should have floating Br's for some vehicles so that their Br increases as their loadout is enhanced while researching

 

Mk 3 chieftain is the pick of the litter atm for my mind

 

 

 

Edited by TheBakedPotato
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3 hours ago, TheBakedPotato said:

If  you hit that weakspot then yes, i agree, but I'm saying there are  direct hits to the stillbrew that should not penetrate but are still transferring damage internally to nothing but the gun breech.. There are more than a few in these forums who have said the same thing.

 

But then again, i think Barrels and Breaches should be buffed all round and only be damaged by direct hits, losing them to splash damage or shrapnel is a bit weak

 

And i disagree that vehicle should not be balanced by their stock configurations, but i have long held that gaijin should have floating Br's for some vehicles so that their Br increases as their loadout is enhanced while researching

 

Mk 3 chieftain is the pick of the litter atm for my mind

 

You'll have to make a video of the breech being damaged if you think it's from non-penetrating splash. More likely the weakspot is being hit but the breech is eating all the post-pen, but because no crew are being killed people are assuming that it didn't pen them.

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The problem is on the Chieftain the enemy don't need to aim for your weakspot to knock out the gun.

Any shot to the UFP that doesn't pen but ricochet will have a very-very high chance to brake the gun.

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  • Gelesztaa changed the title to Chieftain MK 10
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