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2S25 'Sprut-SD' (1989): The First Airborne 125-MM


WulfPack
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The 2S25 (1989) in War Thunder  

218 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see the 2S25 (1989) in War Thunder?

    • Yes
      179
    • No
      32
    • Undecided
      7
  2. 2. Would you prefer it coming sooner with the older ammunition?

    • Yes
      102
    • No
      56
    • Voted No initially
      23
    • Undecided
      37
  3. 3. Would you prefer to wait and use the more modern ammunition?

    • Yes
      103
    • No
      45
    • Voted No initially
      27
    • Undecided
      43


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In the early 1980's, after neither the Object 685 or Object 934 was accepted for service, it was becoming apparent that the VDV was lacking in a means of adequately engaging the new generation of NATO MBTs. At that time main bulk of the VDV was BMD-1s and BTR-Ds, both of which were incapable of dealing with modern MBTs. At the same time, with the IL-76 just entering service, the transportation capabilities of the VDV had been significantly increased. The increases of capabilities came from the IL-76 being able carry a total of 40 tons and being able to carry a 20 ton vehicle. With that in mind, it was decided that it was useless to just upgrade the existing fleet of AFVs.

 During the search for a base chassis to use, TsNIITochMash(Central Scientific Research Center Institute Of Precision Engineering) came to the conclusion that the the chassis from Object 934 would be suitable for use. As what was most likely a "proof of concept", in 1983, one of the three Object 934 prototypes were transferred to TsNIITochMash, where a prototype 125-MM SPG was manufactured between 1983 and 1984. In 1984, firing test were conducted at the Kubinka , showing that the accuracy was no worse that current MBTs and the stress placed on the crew was within the acceptable limits.

 On October 20, 1985, the green light was given on the development of the SPG, by a decision of the Military Industrial Commission of the Council of Ministers of the USSR. At the same time, the SPG was given the code name "Sprut-SD" and the Object number 952. At some point, it was decided to use a lengthened BMD-3 chassis, instead of 934's. This was most likely done for the sake of commonality. Means of the landing were to be carried out by a system designated P260 and were developed from the P235 parachute-jet(intended to land the BMP-3) Between 1990 and 1991 state test were conducted on the SPG. During the tests, the P260 showed to major shortcomings, it was expensive and complex. On May 30th, 1994, by a decision on the Russian Air Force, the Airborne Forces of the Russian Federation, and the developer on the P260, the P260 was cancelled and the P260M was ordered into development. In 2001, after the UFP was modified, the 2S25 would again undergo state trials. In 2005 it would finally be accepted into service with the VDV.

 

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Pictures from the patent for the turret.

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A 2S25 being loaded with the P260M parachute-jet system.

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Designation:-

2S25 Self Propelled Gun

Dimensions:-

Length: 23.2 feet

Length with gun forward: 32.05 feet

Height: 10 feet

Width: 10.3 feet

Crew: 3 (Driver, Gunner, Commander) 

Weight: 18 tons 

Protection: The hull and turret is made from aluminum alloy and the turret front has an additional steel sheet. Frontal arc is for 23-MM or 12.7-MM and the sides are rated for 12.7-MM or 7.62-MM

Mobility:-

Engine: 2B-06-2C diesel engine out putting 520hp

Top speed: 43.4 mph

Top speed in reverse: 43.4 mph

Top speed in the water: 5.5 mph

Firepower:-

125-MM 2A75

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Rate of Fire: 6-8 rounds per minute

Regarding ammunition:- 

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The way I see, is that there are two options for the ammunition. The first one being giving it older rounds(3BM12 and the 3BK14) and the other being giving it mid 1980's rounds(3BM-29 or 3BM32, 3BK21, and the 9M112M 'Kobra'. Going with older ammunition would allow the 2S25 to come sooner and the gun be balanced against it's potential adversaries. Also, when more modern MBTs arrive, the 2S25 would in theory be moved up and be given the harder hitting rounds. Giving it the more modern ammunition initially would mean it would having to wait until more modern MBTs come. Specifications of the mentioned ammunition listed below.

 

3BM12 APFSDS

Muzzle Velocity: 1800 mps

Penetration at 2000 meters: 315-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees)

3BK14 HEAT-FS

Muzzle Velocity: 905 mps

Penetration: 450-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees) 

3BM29 APFSDS

Muzzle Velocity: 1720 mps

Penetration at 2000 meters: 430-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees)

3BM32 APFSDS

Muzzle Velocity: 1700 mps

Penetration at 2000 meters: 500-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees)

3BK21 HEAT-FS

Muzzle Velocity: 905 mps

Penetration: 520-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees) 

9M112M 'Kobra' gun launched ATGM

Average speed: 400 mps

Range of Fire: 4000 meters

Guidance: SACLOS 

Penetration: 700-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees) 

Rate of Fire: 3-4 rounds per mintute 

Ammunition load: 22 rounds carried in the automatic loader and an additional 18 carried outside the automatic loader

7.62-MM PKT

Ammunition load: 2000 rounds

Maximum gun angles: -5-+15 to the front and -3-+17 to the rear

Estimated horizontal turret traverse rate: 24 Degs/S

Estimated gun elevation rate: 2.5-4.5 Degs/S

 

 

Sources:-

For the museum piece pictures: http://myauu.livejournal.com/150626.html

http://btvt.info/1inservice/sprut/2c25sprut.htm

http://vmk.tplants.com/ru/products/dd3000/

https://topwar.ru/570-125-mm-samoxodnaya-protivotankovaya-pushka-2s25-sprut-sd.html

https://topwar.ru/24861-boevye-mashiny-na-baze-bmd-3-chast-1-sprut.html

Information for the ammunition:  http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/

Edited by WulfPack
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8 hours ago, WulfPack said:

qbDGfhk.jpg

In the early 1980's, after neither the Object 685 or Object 934 was accepted for service, it was becoming apparent that the VDV was lacking in a means of adequately engaging the new generation of NATO MBTs. At that time main bulk of the VDV was BMD-1s and BTR-Ds, both of which were incapable of dealing with modern MBTs. At the same time, with the IL-76 just entering service, the transportation capabilities of the VDV had been significantly increased. The increases of capabilities came from the IL-76 being able carry a total of 40 tons and being able to carry a 20 ton vehicle. With that in mind, it was decided that it was useless to just upgrade the existing fleet of AFVs.

 During the search for a base chassis to use, TsNIITochMash(Central Scientific Research Center Institute Of Precision Engineering) came to the conclusion that the the chassis from Object 934 would be suitable for use. In 1983, one of the three Object 934 prototypes were transferred to TsNIITochMash, where a prototype 125-MM SPG was manufactured between 1983 and 1984. In 1984, firing test were conducted at the Kubinka , showing that the accuracy was no worse that current MBTs. Means of the landing were to be carried out by a system designated P260 and were developed from the P235 parachute-jet(intended to land the BMP-3) Between 1990 and 1991 state test were conducted on the SPG. During the tests, the P260 showed to major shortcomings, it was expensive and complex. On May 30th, 1994, by a decision on the Russian Air Force, the Airborne Forces of the Russian Federation, and the developer on the P260, the P260 was cancelled and the P260M was ordered into development. In 2001, after the UFP was modified, the 2S25 would again undergo state trials. In 2005 it would finally be accepted into service with the VDV.

 

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Designation:-

2S25 Self Propelled Gun

Dimensions:-

Length: 23.2 feet

Length with gun forward: 32.05 feet

Height: 10 feet

Width: 10.3 feet

Crew: 3 (Driver, Gunner, Commander) 

Weight: 18 tons 

Protection: Same as 934. Frontal arc is for 23-MM and the sides are rated for 12.7

Mobility:-

Engine: 2B-06-2C diesel engine out putting 520hp

Top speed: 43.4 mph

Top speed in reverse: 43.4 mph

Top speed in the water: 5.5 mph

Firepower:-

125-MM 2A75

  Hide contents

RJdum8n.jpg

AvPF9kn.jpg

Rate of Fire: 6-8 rounds per minute

Regarding ammunition:- 

  Reveal hidden contents

The way I see, is that there are two options for the ammunition. The first one being giving it older rounds(3BM12 and the 3BK14) and the other being giving it mid 1980's rounds(3BM-29 or 3BM32, 3BK21, and the 9M112M 'Kobra'. Going with older ammunition would allow the 2S25 to come sooner and the gun be balanced against it's potential adversaries. Also, when more modern MBTs arrive, the 2S25 would in theory be moved up and would be given the harder hitting rounds. Giving it the more modern ammunition initially would mean it would having to wait until more modern MBTs come. Specifications of the mentioned ammunition listed below.

 

3BM12 APFSDS

Muzzle Velocity: 1800 mps

Penetration at 2000 meters: 315-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees)

3BK14 HEAT-FS

Muzzle Velocity: 905 mps

Penetration: 450-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees) 

3BM29 APFSDS

Muzzle Velocity: 1720 mps

Penetration at 2000 meters: 430-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees)

3BM32 APFSDS

Muzzle Velocity: 1700 mps

Penetration at 2000 meters: 500-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees)

3BK21 HEAT-FS

Muzzle Velocity: 905 mps

Penetration: 520-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees) 

9M112M 'Kobra' gun launched ATGM

Average speed: 400 mps

Range of Fire: 4000 meters

Guidance: SACLOS 

Penetration: 700-MM(at an angle of 90 degrees) 

Rate of Fire: 3-4 rounds per mintute 

Ammunition load: 22 rounds carried in the automatic loader and an additional 18 carried outside the automatic loader

7.62-MM PKT

Ammunition load: 2000 rounds

Maximum gun angles: -5-+15

 

 

Sources:-

For the museum piece pictures: http://myauu.livejournal.com/150626.html

http://btvt.info/1inservice/sprut/2c25sprut.htm

http://vmk.tplants.com/ru/products/dd3000/

https://topwar.ru/570-125-mm-samoxodnaya-protivotankovaya-pushka-2s25-sprut-sd.html

Information for the ammunition:  http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/

 

It would be a great light tank given it's speed and gun. Very similar to the M8 AGS but with a better gun. It would change the gameplay of the Russian team and it's a good thing because it adds diversity to that tech tree. Give it the older ammo and bring it home to War Thunder.

 

+1

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15 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

well this is pretty cool. it's like the soviet equivalent of the M8 Buford or a sheridan with an L7 cannon.

 

+1. could be a good tier 5 regular/premium LT or TD, or a tier 6 LT.

 

Personally it would fit in the main Tech-Tree given it's very powerful armorment and great mobility.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yeah no, the ammo it would use would lol pen everything in game so far regardless of distance or angle. 

 

What's that you say? "Give it the older ammo"...... Why? It was made in the mid 80's, so it should get mid 80's ammo similar to how the T-64A (1971) gets ammo from 1971 or before. And besides, if you didn't give the Sprut it's historic ammo compliment, all the Russian fan boys will spam the forums until it does eventually get the 1985-1990 ammo.

 

I vote no, because you don't know what you're asking for. 

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It's an interesting concept. I can already imagine once this is added and CDK for War Thunder Ground Forces is implemmented that people will start making custom missions were you get inserted via air drop. Personally you got to be crazy to ride this thing or a BMD for that matter to the ground dangling beneath a parachute.

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12 minutes ago, Rohrkrepiererer said:

Fits the game meta, has some major flaws that keep it within the realms of balance. +1, #Gib

 

except firing 420mm penetration depleted uranium monobloc apfsds at worst considering the first prototype of the gun was made back in the late 80s

 

nothing wrong at all

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9 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

except firing 420mm penetration depleted uranium monobloc apfsds at worst considering the first prototype of the gun was made back in the late 80s

 

nothing wrong at all

 

No there's not, considering where this game is going.

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Edited by Rohrkrepiererer
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9 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

except firing 420mm penetration depleted uranium monobloc apfsds at worst considering the first prototype of the gun was made back in the late 80s

 

nothing wrong at all

...Does it really matter,though.Even if you only take the T-64A´s ammo selection that we currently have,it has more than enough bang to go through pretty much anything...Unless we get mid-80s tanks (which isnt that unlikely,after all),in which case theres no need to not give it that ammo anyway....

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3 hours ago, Rohrkrepiererer said:

No there's not, considering where this game is going.

 

3 hours ago, swpixy said:

...Does it really matter,though.Even if you only take the T-64A´s ammo selection that we currently have,it has more than enough bang to go through pretty much anything...Unless we get mid-80s tanks (which isnt that unlikely,after all),in which case theres no need to not give it that ammo anyway....

 

A 1980s gun is expected to fire 1980s ammunition. At that point what's going to be expected is 3BM-32 Vant at the very least, and this requires proper contemporaries for the ammunition to defeat (M1A1, Leopard 2A4, etc). I doubt 3BM-15 would even be an option at this point considering the switch to 3BM-22 by then. This then goes into territory where the devs will mess up hard since they still don't understand the difference between different APFSDS types, not to mention the armor protection of the MBTs of the time still not having proper values converted into unified criteria. Just like the implementation of composite MBTs, this will backfire.

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3 hours ago, swpixy said:

...Does it really matter,though.Even if you only take the T-64A´s ammo selection that we currently have,it has more than enough bang to go through pretty much anything...Unless we get mid-80s tanks (which isnt that unlikely,after all),in which case theres no need to not give it that ammo anyway....

 

But this is a mid-80s tank, the Sprut entered service in 84-85. 

 

3 hours ago, Nope said:

 

except firing 420mm penetration depleted uranium monobloc apfsds at worst considering the first prototype of the gun was made back in the late 80s

 

nothing wrong at all

 

Thank you, someone not totally blinded by the prospect of a "new shiny thing". Most of you probably don't know what your asking for: an amphibious tier VI hellcat with an even better gun for its tier (and stabilized), you have to be insane to think this would be balanced. 

Edited by xX_Lord_James_Xx

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6 minutes ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

But this is a mid-80s tank, the Sprut entered service in 84-85. 

 

 

Thank you, someone not totally blinded by the prospect of a "new shiny thing". Most of you probably don't know what your asking for: an amphibious tier VI hellcat with an even better gun for its tier (and stabilized), you have to be insane to think this would be balanced. 

 

but is paper so is ok

 

lets forget all about the leopard 1 clubbing

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6 minutes ago, Nope said:

 

but is paper so is ok

 

lets forget all about the leopard 1 clubbing

 

Nashorn can be penned frontally by BT-5? Send it to BR 1.3 cause that's what its armor is comparable too.... 

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1 hour ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

Nashorn can be penned frontally by BT-5? Send it to BR 1.3 cause that's what its armor is comparable too.... 

oh yes ... where all the auto cannon are... do you guys even read your own post sometimes?... btw last dev q&a they haven't ruled out things like the Object 292.....
Object_292_2.png

Edited by dotEXCEL
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1 minute ago, dotEXCEL said:

btw last dwv q&a they haven't ruled out things like the Object 292.....

I found it odd they didn't say no to that.

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1 minute ago, WulfPack said:

I found it odd they didn't say no to that.

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Edited by dotEXCEL
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1 hour ago, Nope said:

 

but is paper so is ok

 

lets forget all about the leopard 1 clubbing

Except in this case you have opponents with similar mobility and firepower already-even now,without adding more stuff.Namedly,KPz/MBT-which,by the way,russia does still need a proper counterpart for.Early T-80 and this thing would kinda do just that-give russia something with somewhat comparable levels of mobility.Even though it wont keep up in terms of gunhandling or survivability.

 

Besides-quite high probability of Keiler happening sooner or later,which would absolutely justify this thing happening...

 

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Im not sure why you guys are forgetting the T-72.... considering it has better mobility than the T-64. Don't want the original T-72 Ural? Get the T-72A, now with an even better engine, turret, and ammo that doesn't negate all armor, same for the T-80/T-80B. Want another T-64? Try out our new T-64B, with a new engine, front armor array, and ammo that doesn't lol its way through the Chief Mk.10's stillbrew. 

 

17 hours ago, swpixy said:

 

Except in this case you have opponents with similar mobility and firepower already

 

Lets put it this way: the 3BM-32 "Vant" has 490mm pen at 2km, which would roughly equate to ~530-540mm point blank, which is insane as it could pen any tank in this game at any distance we fight in the game. The HEAT shell could either be the 3BK-21 with 650mm or 3BK-29 with >800mm. Again, you have no idea what you're asking for: a tier VI hellcat with a stabilizer, and considering how good the hellcat is at its own tier already, this would only be better. 

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1 hour ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

Lets put it this way: the 3BM-32 "Vant" has 490mm pen at 2km, which would roughly equate to ~530-540mm point blank, which is insane as it could pen any tank in this game at any distance we fight in the game. The HEAT shell could either be the 3BK-21 with 650mm or 3BK-29 with >800mm. Again, you have no idea what you're asking for: a tier VI hellcat with a stabilizer, and considering how good the hellcat is at its own tier already, this would only be better. 

 

That is not a valid argument anymore, considering that we have a whole array of vehicles with pen values of up to 800mm of pen at any range. Fact is: The situation, where any tank can pen any other tank at any range is already there. That's it.

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