Godman_82

ID:0061060 07/Sep/2017 T28 Superheavy Tank using outdated "T95" designation

Hello,

 

I would like to report a small issue that is a name of the vehicle. American tank destroyer from rank V is currently named T95, and premium tank destroyer from rank IV is called T28, which is not correct. These are both exactly the same vehicle, and their official designation is T28.

 

Explanation

 

The vehicle was initially named T28 Heavy Tank. On 7.02.1945 the Chief of Ordnance requested changing the name to T95 Gun Motor Carriage, as the vehicle didn’t met some requirements to be called a “tank” (for example - no turret). Name was officially changed 8.03.1945. But according to US Army standards, “carriage” should be lightly armored vehicle, so this vehicle also didn’t fit into that category. Finally it was decided, that due to huge firepower and armor, it is closer to being a tank than a carriage. The name was changed again , this time to T28 Superheavy Tank (note the prefix “super-” which was not in the first name). That happened in June 1946, and it was the last change of the vehicle name, until today it is officially T28 Superheavy Tank.

 

Source 1

The whole name changing process was described in “Firepower - A History of The American Heavy Tank” on pages 60-65.

Firepower T28.pdf

 

Source 2

The fact that T28 was the name of the vehicle before and after T95 is confirmed in “AFV Weapons 41, M103 Heavy tank + M41 Walker Bulldog” by Colonel Robert J. Icks on page 189. On page 191 we have a few pictures of a vehicle named T95, but it is stated “earlier and later designation was T28”. I assume the photos were taken between March 1945 and June 1946, when it was “temporarily” named T95.

AFV 41.pdf

 

Source 3

In 1990 US military report called “Is a turretless tank a viable option for United States Army” by Major Gary L. Moore, on page 52 the author is referring to the vehicle as T28.

https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/dashboard/searchResults/titleDetail/ADA227389.xhtml

(downloadable pdf of the whole document there)

 

Source 4

Also in 2015 released book “Tanks: 100 years of evolution” by Richard Ogorkiewicz, we see that the vehicle is called T28, on page 165.

https://books.google.pl/books?id=ZICXCwAAQBAJ&dq=us+tanks+ogorkiewicz&hl=pl&source=gbs_navlinks_s

(page 165 is revealed)

 

All three secondary, and one semi-primary sources confirms that the vehicle is named T28. On the photos from “AFV Weapons” we can see vehicle called T95 with two and four tracks as well. In "Firepower" we can see a photo of four-tracked vehicle named T28 (page 66). The number of tracks was not a reason for changing the name, the exterior set of tracks was designed to be detached for transportation purposes.

 

Photo evidence:

The only remaining vehicle was stationed at Patton Museum (until 2011).

T28_Patton.thumb.jpg.4d6e4a8e1fe2614b60b

 

 

Right now, it is placed at Fort Benning.

http://www.armorjournal.com/index-spg-T28_NACM.php

 

 

 


 

Source of error

 

The artificial division between two-tracked T28 and four-tracked T95 was created by World of Tanks' developer - Wargaming. World of Tanks is known for unhistorical specs of the vehicles, using unhistorical guns on tanks, so using outdated name of the tank is not such a problem there.

 

 

 

 

Suggested solution

 

Since War Thunder is a game that strives to keep historical accuracy at high level, I think the vehicle should use correct name, which is T28 Superheavy Tank. The premium vehicle of rank IV might be called T28 (double-track/two-tracked/dual-track) Superheavy Tank.

 

 

Change the names of the vehicles:

T95 Gun Motor Carriage to: T28 Superheavy Tank

T28 Superheavy Tank to: T28 (double-track) Superheavy Tank

Edited by Godman_82
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Thanks Godman_82,

                                 It would depend on when in time the T95 is modeled.  If it is modeled in the year 1945 then the nomenclature is correct.

 

I will submit this for consideration by the Developers.

 

Cheers

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You mean which exact configuration is present in the game?

 

The project was too "short" to make any modifications. Both pilots were build and shipped to Aberdeen/Fort Knox in December/January 1945/1946 (so after the first change of the name).

It was presented on December of 1946 (as far as I know it was first public display), and remained at Aberdeen Proving Ground for testing until late 1947. So tests last at least until 1947, when the name was already changed to T28 Superheavy Tank.

 

I have no information about any modifications made to any of two pilots. For my best knowledge they were tested, and then "dismissed", as their purpose (break through Siegfried Line) was no longer present, and none of them was ever modified. 

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Yes, we are having this discussion in another thread :)  Whether they were modified etc.

 

It is possible the Dev's have modeled one in 1945 and the other in 46/47. 

 

No doubt they will let us know what they think. 

 

Cheers

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Oh, the mantlet thread. I didn't read anything after I posted that short explanation there.

 

I only want to point out that AFV Situation Report used in the other thread is dated August 1945, so before any tank was build. Mentioned changes to armor was made "on paper" only :)

 

Let's wait to see Devs view on the matter.

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Quote

Mentioned changes to armor was made "on paper" only

Yes. this is the subject of my discussion with the OP in the other thread.  The way I 'read' that document is similar to you. 

;)

 

 

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Hi Godman_82
                     Thank you for your help improving the game.  

 

Your information has been forwarded to the developers and the tracking number is: ID:0061060      

 

This thread will remain unlocked for one week (7 days) so that anyone with additional information\evidence\examples will have a place to post.  
After this time the report will remain active but will be archived.

 

It will also serve as a place where the developers will post questions for you to answer so please keep up to date here.

 

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