*The_Prince_Jay

Why is the m46 7.0?

7 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

...the Panther II has a heavy tank cannon on a medium tank with good mobility.

Because the Tiger II has this gun also?

The M26 was an heavy tank... by this logic the M46 has a heavy tank gun with a shell from a diffrent era.

Mobility, gun handling... M46 vs. Panther II? The winner is... M46!

What gun/shell would you like to have against 7.0+ tanks in the game? The 88mm with its APHE or the 90mm with HEAT-FS and APHE?

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1 minute ago, BertTheTurtle said:

What gun/shell would you like to have against 7.0+ tanks in the game? The 88mm with its APHE or the 90mm with HEAT-FS and APHE?

 

Easily the 88. High pen APHE is very good, HEAT-FS with it's abysmal post-pen is rarely useful. 

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12 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

Because the Tiger II has this gun also?

The M26 was an heavy tank... by this logic the M46 has a heavy tank gun with a shell from a diffrent era.

 

Yes, because 65mm of pen and 147 m/s difference is negligible...

 

12 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

Mobility, gun handling... M46 vs. Panther II? The winner is... M46!

What gun/shell would you like to have against 7.0+ tanks in the game? The 88mm with its APHE or the 90mm with HEAT-FS and APHE?

 

I'd take APHE 9 times out of 10. 

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5 minutes ago, *AllahHuAirlines said:

Easily the 88. High pen APHE is very good, HEAT-FS with it's abysmal post-pen is rarely useful. 

Omg, sure you would do that... good luck if you run into any tier 5 USSR tank with your 88mm shell.

Must be a reason that tanks at that BR uses APDS/HESH/HEAT-FS.

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12 hours ago, *The_Prince_Jay said:

Don't heatfs that would be the bs excuse.

 

This **** me off cause  of 3 reasons

 

1-  if the is6 never showed up the m46 would have never got that heatfs and I wouldn't  have to vs atgms. 

2- the stock grind will be equally xxxx as m47 and m48

3- if it was cause of the heatfs  how the flying xxxx did the ru251 not get changed?

 

Rip me and the m46 you were 2nd favorite  tank before Gajin f'd you over like the t32

 

 

it's not russian so it gets a br fix asap unlike is6 which is clearly better than is3 but yes xaxaxaxa

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1 minute ago, *MiseryIndex556 said:

Yes, because 65mm of pen and 147 m/s difference is negligible...

Read it twice... his logic. The 88mm is far from a heavy "tank gun" at 7.0 when there are L7s and 90mm guns with HEAT-FS.

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2 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

Read it twice... his logic. The 88mm is far from a heavy "tank gun" at 7.0 when there are L7s and 90mm guns with HEAT-FS.

 

Considering it's the best APHE firing gun in the game and can frontally pen every US tank it faces, I don't see the problem. 

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22 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

Because the Tiger II has this gun also?

The M26 was an heavy tank... by this logic the M46 has a heavy tank gun with a shell from a diffrent era.

Mobility, gun handling... M46 vs. Panther II? The winner is... M46!

What gun/shell would you like to have against 7.0+ tanks in the game? The 88mm with its APHE or the 90mm with HEAT-FS and APHE?

The M46 does not hold an overwhelming advantage in mobility against the Panther II, except in reverse. The Panther II 88 can also instantly destroy the M46 pretty much anywhere while you either need two hits with HEAT-FS, as long as the first shot takes out the driver and loader, or aim for the turret weak spot with the M82 to kill a Panther II. 

 

The M26 wasn't a heavy tank, it was a direct development of the T25 and T20 medium tanks made to replace and supplement the M4 Sherman, the reason it was called a ''heavy tank" was due to morale, but the M26 was derived from and developed as a medium tank. It was classified as a medium tank for most of its service life.

 

Also, the M26 cannon is comparable to the Tiger I but it is 6.3 while the Tiger I is 5.7 and by the metric where the M26 is a "heavy tank" would also qualify the Panther as a "heavy tank" because it is more armored than heavy tanks at the time of its introduction with a gun more powerful than all existing medium tanks from its time.

 

Answering your last question, I'd still choose an APHE with more than 230mm of penetration even at top tier, because there is hardly any tank with more than that and no tank without a weak spot or place where it can't be penetrated with shells exceeding 210mm of armor penetration, and I also don't have to switch shells all the time since when I have to choose between flanking and taking side hits and end up in frontal engagements.

 

Also the only tanks that can resist APHE with 230mm of penetration are late war/post war heavy tanks, everything else doesn't. 

Edited by Slayer3XD
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Look at the way Russian tanks are played at top tier. A lot of the time, I'll be killed by APHE which is very similar to the long 88's APHE in performance (except the T-10M's BR-472 shell). 

You could argue that a lot of tanks at that BR range are paper thin, but there are tanks like the T95E1 and the Chieftain which have glaring APHE weakspots, even when hull down. 

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13 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

The M46 does not hold an overwhelming advantage in mobility against the Panther II, except in reverse. The Panther II 88 can also instantly destroy the M46 pretty much anywhere while you either need two hits with HEAT-FS, as long as the first shot takes out the driver and loader, or aim for the turret weak spot with the M82 to kill a Panther II.

Gun handiling? Turret traverse.

Sure if the Panther II has the first shot. But the M46 can deal with USSR sloped armor much better. Diffrent era.

The M46 can be used in an down- and uptier equaly and killing IS-3s, T-54s like the T-44-100 through the UFP.

 

Quote

Answering your last question, I'd still choose an APHE with more than 230mm of penetration even at top tier, because there is hardly any tank with more than that and no tank without a weak spot or place where it can't be penetrated with shells exceeding 210mm of armor penetration, and I also don't have to switch shells all the time since when I have to choose between flanking and taking side hits and end up in frontal engagements.

 

Also the only tanks that can resist APHE with 230mm of penetration are late war/post war heavy tanks, everything else doesn't. 

Read above. What tanks do you see at 7.0+ BRs.

Edited by BertTheTurtle
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20 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

Read above. What tanks do you see at 7.0+ BRs.

Tigers IIs, Panther IIs, some T-54s and IS-6 here and there. 

 

But US too OP fighting Russian/German teams packed with more higher tier tanks than we do right? Those 88mm and 100mm are truly useless vs US tanks right? They can't totally not one shot those OP CHEAT-FS 420 no scope tanks right?

 

How the hell Gaijin raises the BR of the M46, including the M46 Tiger but leaves the RU-251 and IS-6 on their respective BRs is beyond me. 

20170706164805_1.jpg

Edited by Slayer3XD
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it takes 2 hits to kill a panther 2 only when the first one only destroy the gun, the turret travese and the transmission.

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US 7.0 truly OP. Mopping the floor so hard against German/Russian teams with 7.3 and 7.0 tanks. 

 

You know what? I didn't cap n' fly or supported cap n' fly but I am going to do it now. Because if I have to fight teams packed with T-54s, Panther IIs and IS-3/6 all the time I'd rather do it from above.

 

 

20170706171919_1.jpg

Edited by Slayer3XD
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Its interesting how often I face 7.3 Russian teams with a max 7.0 US team.

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15 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

But US too OP fighting Russian/German teams packed with more higher tier tanks than we do right?

Did I said something like this?

Man, I would like to play my T-26E1 or my M26E1 but facing hordes of T-54s, IS-3s and IS-6s... no, thx.

Also, I bought the M46 "Tiger" in the past and I agree with the BR change. I support every kind of decompressing and if one of my tanks is a victim... so what.

 

15 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

Those 88mm and 100mm are truly useless vs US tanks right? They can't totally not one shot those OP CHEAT-FS 420 no scope tanks right?

So, it is ok for you that the US tech tree is the only one with...

... such a mobile medium tank like the M46 (with HEAT-FS) at 6.7?

... the only TD which is frontaly immune (T95)

 

So, best... armor, mobility, HEAT-FS, CAS

And if US is in a team with UK the other tech trees have also to deal with high pen APDS and stabilizer.

Do you want balanace? Doesn't sound like this.

 

15 minutes ago, Slayer3XD said:

How the hell Gaijin raises the BR of the M46, including the M46 Tiger but leaves the RU-251 and IS-6 on their respective BRs is beyond me. 

New premium tanks. I guess the most RU 251 player have now figured out that the tank is better in higher BRs then in lower. Because of the missing APHE shell.

I would not have a problem with an BR change for the RU 251. I don't play the tech tree and but I want a balanced match.

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16 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

So, it is ok for you that the US tech tree is the only one with...

... such a mobile medium tank like the M46 (with HEAT-FS) at 6.7?

 

Germans have Ru251 and Japanese have the STA and STB.

 

16 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

... the only TD which is frontaly immune (T95)

 

Germans have the Jagdtiger.

T95 is not frontally immune.

T95 goes 12 kmh.

 

16 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

 

So, best... armor, mobility, HEAT-FS, CAS

And if US is in a team with UK the other tech trees have also to deal with high pen APDS and stabilizer.

Do you want balanace? Doesn't sound like this.

 

Best armor? Really...

Decent mobility at the cost of armor and survivability.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

... the only TD which is frontaly immune (T95)

The T95 has 305mm of unsloped armor.

The Ru 251 has 320mm penetration HEAT-FS rounds.

The Type 60 SPG has 381mm penetration HEAT rounds.

The ST-A1 & 2 have 305mm penetration HEAT-FS rounds which can penetrate.

 

34 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

So, best... armor

Russia and Germany have better armor at each tier.

The only exception is the T95, which is literally the slowest vehicle in the game.

 

40 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

mobility,

The US trades armor and firepower for mobility. US medium tanks might be faster than other nations', but they are less armored and have weaker guns.

When it comes to tanks that are built purely for mobility, the Japanese also have the fastest US light tank, and Germany has the Ru 251 which is the fastest tank in the game as well as the Sd. Kfz. 234/2 which is the fastest ground vehicle in the game.

 

46 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

HEAT-FS

Russia gets 300mm penetration HEAT-FS at 6.3 BR with the ASU-85.

Japan gets 305mm penetration HEAT-FS at 6.3 BR with the ST-A1 & 2, and 381mm penetration HEAT at 6.7 with the Type 60 SPRG.

Germany gets 320mm penetration HEAT-FS at 6.7 with the Ru 251.

 

31 minutes ago, *MiseryIndex556 said:

CAS

Germany has airborne HVAP rounds which can decimate tanks with no aim required as well as the best SPAAs in the game.

Russians have better low altitude fighters than the US and also have the FAB-5000 bomb.

 

58 minutes ago, BertTheTurtle said:

And if US is in a team with UK the other tech trees have also to deal with high pen APDS and stabilizer.

APDS has poor post penetration damage compared to AP/APHE rounds and are ineffective against heavily sloped armor such as that on Russian tanks.

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So these are all the matches I had on my M46 today.

 

One victory out of ten matches. HEAT-FS, cap n' fly, full uptiers to 8.0, US teams filled with 6.7 and a few 7.0 tanks going against Russian/German teams packed with 7.0, 7.3 and 7.7 tanks.

 

So, how is HEAT-FS on the M46 OP or game breaking again? Or how the US is so overpowered again? How German and Russian tanks can't compete again? 

20170706191721_1.jpg

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I'm really loving that there are more t32s and m46s in 8.0 games especially  when the enemy team is the Germans and Russians while the t32 is useless and the m46 is pretty much forced to use heatfs

 

Also the Japanese version is at 6.3 lmfao

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12 hours ago, Conraire said:

My guess would be, because it's an American tank...

 

I actually get more irritated at the fact, that the US was the first nation, out of all the nations to use HEAT rounds, to actually develop and field Fin Stabilized HEAT rounds.  Yet in game..... they're almost the last nation to get access to the shell in the tech tree.  Because somehow the Russians magically get it at 5.3.

 

RU 251 Should of been moved up to 7.0 as well.  And no, low armor isn't an excuse.  The 251 is also far more mobile, and currently has a faster rate of fire, and no ammo grind to work through.  This is also implying that the M46 is somehow equal to the T-44-100 or IS-6.  Both of which have better armor, and a better gun. 

 

Try PT-76 and you will see HEAT-FS doesn't make it a good tank. It has 200mm of pen on 90 degree sloped surfaces. Any higher than 5.3, it will fight T29s and T34s, which it will not be able to handle.

 

34 minutes ago, *The_Prince_Jay said:

I'm really loving that there are more t32s and m46s in 8.0 games especially  when the enemy team is the Germans and Russians while the t32 is useless and the m46 is pretty much forced to use heatfs

 

Also the Japanese version is at 6.3 lmfao

 

STA-1 and STA-2 are not Japanese M46s. Try them for yourself... they are bad.

Edited by RememberRoute23
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1 hour ago, *The_Prince_Jay said:

Also the Japanese version is at 6.3 lmfao

 

The STAs have worse manouverability than the Tortoise, an 81-tonne slab of cast armour on tracks. That's murder for a fairly lightly armoured tank which is supposed to be very mobile in theory. The Japanese put a massive emphasis on manouverability in the specification for tanks so they could traverse the mountainous terrain of mainland Japan, drive through paddy fields etc. and this is completely disregarded in game. 

Edited by *AllahHuAirlines
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2 hours ago, Xnetexe said:

Russians have better low altitude fighters than the US and also have the FAB-5000 bomb

US is actually kinda balance they may have weak tanks but there CAS option is far superior to any other nation and yeah the FAB-5000 bomb isnt as useful as u might thing since it falling next to a tank but behind a stone can save the tank and many tanks can just shoot the PE-8 out of the sky :P and german HVAP belts actually require aim and easier to counter with MGs rather than those HVARs on the US planes

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1 hour ago, RememberRoute23 said:

 

Try PT-76 and you will see HEAT-FS doesn't make it a good tank. It has 200mm of pen on 90 degree sloped surfaces. Any higher than 5.3, it will fight T29s and T34s, which it will not be able to handle.

 

 

STA-1 and STA-2 are not Japanese M46s. Try them for yourself... they are bad.

 

Many could say the exact same thing about the M46 having HEAT-FS.  While it gives the tank a high penetration HEAT round, it doesn't make it a super tank by any means.  Though it does at least give it the ability to bring some teeth to the game when up tiered. The sad part here is, the M46 should of already had a round with 314mm penetration vs vertical plate, with M304 HVAP, and about 381mm vs vertical plate with the M332 HVAP rounds.  Though technically they could drop the M332 from the M46's ammo list, due to it not being listed in the manual for the tank, where as the HEAT-FS round was listed. 

 

ST-A's armor are modeled completely wrong, as well as their mobility.  Hell even their guns are modeled wrong, since all gaijin did was copy paste the 90mm M3A1 load from the M46. Their guns should have similar performance with AP and HVAP to the 90mm M36 Gun from the M47 Patton.  I'm personally for taking away the HEAT-FS shell away from those two tanks and lowering their BR's to 5.7-6.0 range.  Since with the correct armor they're more or less glorified T-34s with a better gun, and slightly stronger mantlet.  

 

21 minutes ago, *AllahHuAirlines said:

 

The STAs have worse manouverability than the Tortoise, an 81-tonne slab of cast armour on tracks. That's murder for a fairly lightly armoured tank which is supposed to be very mobile in theory. The Japanese put a massive emphasis on manouverability in the specification for tanks so they could traverse the mountainous terrain of mainland Japan, drive through paddy fields etc. and this is completely disregarded in game. 

 

There are a lot of tanks it seems that they've screwed up the mobility on.  Pretty much anything that's not the Leopard or Russian.  M48A1, M60, M60A1, M41, etc I can pretty much guarantee have the wrong ground pressure, and acceleration characteristics.  All those listed above actually have ground pressure equal to or lower than the HVSS model Shermans when combat loaded.  While said tanks weren't the fasted top speed wise, they generally were light on their tracks and had very good acceleration.  In game it seems to be quite the opposite.  A lot of the British and japan tanks seem to be suffering from the same issue. 

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