Jiro-Sha  

167 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Type 95 Jiro-sha be added to the game

    • yes
      133
    • Yes, as prenium/gift/events vehicles
      28
    • No
      6


wallpaper-349563.jpg

 

I would like to suggest one of the conversion of to the Type 95 Heavy tank the Jiro-Sha

5kivpj.jpg

 

there is no picture know for the Jiro-sha and little information about it. the thing we know was the Japanese Type 95 Heavy tank did little more than the previous heavy tank design, the type 95 was produced at 4 prototype in 1934 and never reach the mass production, however amount of the four type we know that at least 1 was fully converted to a SPAG name the Jiro-sha

 

the conversion of the Type 95 into the Jiro-Sha happen in 1935 as experimental project.

 

we know little about his performance but what we know is there was using the same chassis and the same engine as the type 95 Ro-Go and used the type 14 105mm gun. presumably close top. the 2 auxiliary turret was been removed and few other information was been found. the tank was an experimental tank and presumably never saw any kind of action and the reason of the cancellation is still unknown.

Jiro+fvurhiu3h.jpg

 

even without the lack of information, we can presume accuratly that the armor of the tank wasn't meant to receive direct hit. the initial armor of the Type was up to 35mm and the Jiro-Sha is probably not more. the type 14 10cm gun also not considered successful. the gun himself was lacking of range and accuracy and was used for Home island training. however the gun was using a lot of different shell including HE, AP, shrapnel, Gaz and smoke.

e5e477e9d46a935beceb1d8920dfe747.jpg

Specifications
Weight unknow
Length 6.47 m (21.25 ft.)
Width 2.69 m (8.8 ft.)
Height unknow
Crew 1+ gun's crew

Armor 12–35 mm
Main
armament
1x 105mm type 14 gun
Secondary
armament
none
Engine Inline 6-cylinder engine[2]
290 hp
Suspension Leaf-Spring
Operational
range
110 km
Speed 22 km/h (13.7 mph)
 
Elevation -5° to +33°
Traverse 15° right, 15° left
Rate of fire 6-8 rounds/minute
Muzzle velocity 620 m/s (2,034 ft/s)

 

source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_95_Heavy_Tank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_14_10_cm_Cannon

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/japan/type-91-type-95-heavy.php

 

Link to other Japanese SPG

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited by CaID
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god awful japanese armoring? check. frustratingly poor maneuverability? check. 105mm APHE-Fx1000o shells of death? check.

 

 

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

another comically unwieldy experimental TD that will make it's users and target flip the table in rage. +1

please for the love of god let this be researchable and at the beginning of tier 3

Edited by Admiral_Aruon
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6 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

god awful japanese armoring? check. frustratingly poor maneuverability? check. 105mm APHE-Fx1000o shells of death? check.

 

 

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

another comically unwieldy experimental TD that will make it's users and target flip the table in rage. +1

please for the love of god let this be researchable and at the beginning of tier 3

My thoughts exactly pls no premium 

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On 5/29/2017 at 0:24 AM, Admiral_Aruon said:

god awful japanese armoring? check. frustratingly poor maneuverability? check. 105mm APHE-Fx1000o shells of death? check.

 

 

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

another comically unwieldy experimental TD that will make it's users and target flip the table in rage. +1

please for the love of god let this be researchable and at the beginning of tier 3

The description for the Ho-Ro fits right in too.

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According to some of the blueprints found for this tank, it actually used the Type 92 105mm, not the Type 14 105mm: 

 

jaleqlslqr8y.jpg

 

See the bottom right corner: 92 = 九二

 

Here are a couple more blueprints:

q9iUHAV.jpg

kvRCuXT.jpg

 

This is rather significant, as the Type 14 had a muzzle velocity of 645 meters/second, whereas the Type 92 had a considerably higher muzzle velocity of 765 meters/second. The Type 92's penetration was listed as 175mm at 100 meters on its Japanese Wikipedia page, though its noted that the ammo type and type of steel used to test against weren't specified. As a comparison, the Dicker Max's 105mm K18 penetrates 200mm of armor at 100 meters with a muzzle velocity of 822 meters per second.

 

The Ji-Ro has its own Japanese page as well - https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ジロ車. According to this, the chassis was completed by the end of 1942 and the gun was mounted some time in the second half of 1943. It was designed to be able to swap the Type 92 105mm with the Type 96 15cm howitzer on the same chassis, though it was only tested with the Type 92 at the "Irako Range" (伊良湖射場). It had a horizontal traverse of 18 degrees to the left and to the right, and had a vertical traverse of -5 degrees down and 30 degrees up. It weighed 30 tons and had a top speed of 25 kph.

Edited by Tasty95215
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According to the Japanese Wikipedia, the Type 92 105mm gun could fire the following rounds:

  • Type 92 HE
  • Type 91 Semisteel(?) HE
  • Type 91 sharp-nosed HE
  • Type 95 sharp-nosed HE
  • Type 95 AP shell (most likely APHE)
  • Type 14 Shrapnel shell
  • Type 95 Incendiary shell
  • Experimental Type 2 AP shell
  • Etc.
Edited by Tasty95215
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On 22/08/2018 at 04:58, Tasty95215 said:

According to the Japanese Wikipedia, the Type 92 105mm gun could fire the following rounds:

  • Type 92 HE
  • Type 91 Semisteel(?) HE
  • Type 91 sharp-nosed HE
  • Type 95 sharp-nosed HE
  • Type 95 AP shell (most likely APHE)
  • Type 14 Shrapnel shell
  • Type 95 Incendiary shell
  • Experimental Type 2 AP shell
  • Etc.

I would like to have that many options ingame actualy!

That would really allow you to use whatever you want :D

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I just noticed this, but the "Experimental Type 2 AP shell" that I mentioned before is just the same APHE shell that the Ho-Ri Prototype/Production use. This means the shell would have a mass of 16 kilograms and an explosive filler of 200 grams of TNT, at least going by the War Thunder Wiki.

 

 

American documents describe there being 6 different types of APHE found, although some of them appear to be the same:

  • Type 95 APHE
    • Weight of 15.91 kg or 35 lb (the conversion between kg and lb in the document is slightly off)
    • 1290 grams of Onayaku (Mixture between Picric acid and dinitronaphthalene)/TNT (for some reason the pages list both, even though they are different explosives)
  • "Kou" model (甲)
    • Weight of 18.04 kg or 39.69 lb
    • 1020 grams of Onayaku/TNT
  • Otsu Model (乙)
    • Weight of 18.04 kg or 39.69 lb
    • 1020 grams of Onayaku/TNT
  • Cast Iron "Kou" model (甲)
    • Weight of 18.23 kg or 40.11 lb
    • 590 grams of Onayaku/TNT
  • Cast Iron "Otsu" model (乙)
    • Weight of 18 kg or 39.6 lb
    • 590 grams of Onayaku/TNT
  • Cast Iron "Hei" model (丙)
    • Weight of 17.77 kg or 39.1 lb
    • "Small grain powder in small bags"

I'll post the actual document pages for these later, but hopefully this will be helpful if Gaijin ever does decide to implement the Ji-Ro.

Edited by Tasty95215
Got the wrong number of shell types before
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9 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

I just noticed this, but the "Experimental Type 2 AP shell" that I mentioned before is just the same APHE shell that the Ho-Ri Prototype/Production use. This means the shell would have a mass of 16 kilograms and an explosive filler of 200 grams of TNT, at least going by the War Thunder Wiki.

 

As for the Type 95 APHE, American documents describe there being 3 different types of APHE found:

  • "Kou" model (甲)
    • Weight of 18.23 kg or 40.11 lb (conversion in document is slightly off for the weight of all of them)
    • 590 grams of TNT
  • "Otsu" model (乙)
    • Weight of 18 kg or 39.6 lb
    • 590 grams of TNT
  • "Hei" model (丙)
    • Weight of 17.77 kg or 39.1 lb
    • Explosive filler isn't listed

I'll post the actual document pages for these later, but hopefully this will be helpful if Gaijin ever does decide to implement the Ji-Ro.

i think it will be very helpful. if Gaijin have a lot of information to start with, they are more interested to add it.

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Here are the files on the APHE. I was wrong about the number of different shells earlier, there are actually 6 different APHE shells in the document. Also note that the American documents call Kou "A", Otsu "B", and Hei "C".

This is from the file "Japanese ammunition data, 76 MM-120 MM. Report No. 12-b(54), USSBS Index Section 6" http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/4009977

 

Type 95 105mm APHE

Spoiler

1291666254_Japanese105mmAPHE-01.thumb.jp582458467_Japanese105mmAPHE-02.thumb.jpg

 

Kou (A) 105mm APHE

Spoiler

1872889371_Japanese105mmAPHE-06.thumb.jp650906459_Japanese105mmAPHE-07.thumb.jpg

 

Otsu (B) 105mm APHE

Spoiler

891065090_Japanese105mmAPHE-11.thumb.jpg721562364_Japanese105mmAPHE-12.thumb.jpg

 

Kou (A) 105mm APHE Cast Iron

Spoiler

ud56Dw1.jpg9LaHSKg.jpg

 

Otsu (B) 105mm APHE Cast Iron

Spoiler

S2Z118C.jpgv28lpGX.jpg

 

Hei (C) 105mm APHE Cast Iron

Spoiler

NLJXQom.jpgpbedT3o.jpg

 

Unfortunately, most of the information on these shells - most notably the penetration - isn't given here.

Edited by Tasty95215
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One question I have, is the name of this vehicle really the Jiro-Sha? This vehicles "brother" was known as the Hiro-Sha for awhile before eventually being found out to be the Ji-Ro. Now considering this vehicle has the name Jiro in it, I think the name for this may be incorrect.

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23 minutes ago, Muammar_Gaddaf69 said:

One question I have, is the name of this vehicle really the Jiro-Sha? This vehicles "brother" was known as the Hiro-Sha for awhile before eventually being found out to be the Ji-Ro. Now considering this vehicle has the name Jiro in it, I think the name for this may be incorrect.

 

In all of the Japanese sources I've seen, such as its Japanese Wikipedia page, this vehicle - the tank destroyer is in fact called the Ji-Ro Sha "ジロ車", with "Ji" standing for self-propelled guns (not sure what the difference between "Ji" and "Ho" were since they apparently both refer to tank destroyers and SPG's) and "Ro" referring to the Type 95 Ro-Go whose chassis was used for the vehicle. "Sha" just means vehicles in general, and shows up in the names of a lot of different Japanese tanks.

 

As for this thing, its history is relatively unknown compared to the Ji-Ro - according to the Japanese Wikipedia it doesn't even have an official name, though its true that the name "Hiro-Sha" doesn't appear anywhere in Japanese. The Japanese Wikipedia page just called it something along the lines of "Vehicle equipped with the 12cm rapid-fire field gun". I forgot where it is, but I think the original suggestion for that tank (which was already sent to the developers) goes more into depth about it also being called the Ji-Ro.

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On 01/09/2018 at 23:37, Tasty95215 said:

 

In all of the Japanese sources I've seen, such as its Japanese Wikipedia page, this vehicle - the tank destroyer is in fact called the Ji-Ro Sha "ジロ車", with "Ji" standing for self-propelled guns (not sure what the difference between "Ji" and "Ho" were since they apparently both refer to tank destroyers and SPG's) and "Ro" referring to the Type 95 Ro-Go whose chassis was used for the vehicle. "Sha" just means vehicles in general, and shows up in the names of a lot of different Japanese tanks.

 

As for this thing, its history is relatively unknown compared to the Ji-Ro - according to the Japanese Wikipedia it doesn't even have an official name, though its true that the name "Hiro-Sha" doesn't appear anywhere in Japanese. The Japanese Wikipedia page just called it something along the lines of "Vehicle equipped with the 12cm rapid-fire field gun". I forgot where it is, but I think the original suggestion for that tank (which was already sent to the developers) goes more into depth about it also being called the Ji-Ro.

 

The correct name is Ji-Ro. That's it. There is no sha.  車 is not part of the tanks name. It is half of the term tank - 戦車.

 

image.png.1935e0db23628b9f9d8eb5e8509cf2

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still all for this. the Type 95 Ji-Ro would be a welcome addition now that we (mostly) know about its ammunition and quirks. with a massive cannon for its likely BR range, set on a Vickers medium descendant chassis, it'll be a strange but cool and undoubtedly powerful addition since almost all other tanks below tier 5 that have 105mm cannons only fire dodgy HEAT rounds.

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Found another drawing of the Ji-Ro, this time of the front and back:

 

CcRGRCNUMAIWwtG.jpg

 

Not sure which book it's from, but it's most likely the same one as the other drawing at the top.

 

Also, there are some inaccuracies with the development history of the Ji-Ro in the OP. Going by the Japanese Wikipedia page (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ジロ車), plans to mount a 10cm gun in a tank only started in the spring of 1940, not in 1935. The decision to use the chassis of the Type 95 Ro-Go came later, in January 1941, and the Ji-Ro itself was finished in 1942. While the firing tests went by without any issues, it was decided that the Ji-Ro, which had a max speed of 25 kph, was just too slow to keep up with infantry/tank units, which typically moved around 40 kph. As such, development of the Ji-Ro was cancelled with only one vehicle being built.

 

 

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On 09/04/2019 at 12:37, Tasty95215 said:

Found another drawing of the Ji-Ro, this time of the front and back:

 

CcRGRCNUMAIWwtG.jpg

 

Not sure which book it's from, but it's most likely the same one as the other drawing at the top.

 

Also, there are some inaccuracies with the development history of the Ji-Ro in the OP. Going by the Japanese Wikipedia page (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ジロ車), plans to mount a 10cm gun in a tank only started in the spring of 1940, not in 1935. The decision to use the chassis of the Type 95 Ro-Go came later, in January 1941, and the Ji-Ro itself was finished in 1942. While the firing tests went by without any issues, it was decided that the Ji-Ro, which had a max speed of 25 kph, was just too slow to keep up with infantry/tank units, which typically moved around 40 kph. As such, development of the Ji-Ro was cancelled with only one vehicle being built.

 

 

Thank you!

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On 09/04/2019 at 19:37, Tasty95215 said:

CcRGRCNUMAIWwtG.jpg

Post image

 

I'm a bit confused tho, was it a box shaped tank or was it going to be curved like on the first photo?

 

I think the box shape is more accurate, and the most detailed blueprints do show the box shape aswell.

Is the curved design a  futher development or something?

Edited by super_cacti
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