Undefined

FM Update 1.31.XX.XX

German FM changes
 

109 changes
 
109E-3 109F-4 109G-6 109G-10 109K-4
 
Moment Of Inertia changed
Spin and loss characteristics changed
Wing-profile recalculated, Lift and drag corrected due core code changes
 
With this update the 109s feeling a bit less sluggish, more stability overall
 
 
109E3: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 470 km/h at SL, 570 km/h at 5000m
Max climb rate: 16.75 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 19.75 sec
 
109F4: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 530 km/h at SL, 660 km/h at 6200m
Max climb rate: 18.00 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 20.00 sec
 
109G2: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 550 km/h at SL, 665 km/h at 6000m
Max climb rate: 22.00 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 22.00 sec
 
109G6: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 550 km/h at SL, 531 km/h at 6000m
Max climb rate: 18.75 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 23.75 sec
 
109G10: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 560 km/h at SL, 680 km/h at 7300m
Max climb rate: 21.75 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 22.75 sec
 
109K4: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 585 km/h at SL, 715 km/h at 7500m
Max climb rate: 24.00 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 21.75 sec
 
Heinschel 129-B2 tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 385 km/h at SL, 418 km/h at 3000m
Max climb rate: 8.50 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 22.5 sec
 
Russian FM changes:
 
Mig 3: tuned to have this performance:
 
Max speed:520 km/h at SL, 640 km/h at 7800m
Max Military climb rate: 17.25 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 22.85 sec
"made by international FM team"
 
 
 
British FM changes:
 
Spitfire
 
Spit 1 Spit II Spit 5b Spit 5c Spit 9 Spit 16
 
Moment Of Inertia changed
Spin and loss characteristics changed
Wingprofile recalculated Lift and drag corrected due core code changes
 
 
Spit 1: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 460 km/h at SL, 582 km/h at 6100m
Max climb rate: 14.00 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 15.75 sec
 
 
Spit II: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 470 km/h at SL, 570 km/h at 6100m
Max climb rate: 15.75 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 17.25 sec
 
 
Spit Vb: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 485 km/h at SL, 605 km/h at 6300m
Max climb rate: 15.75 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 18.75 sec
 
 
Spit Vc: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 490 km/h at SL, 615 km/h at 6300m
Max climb rate: 14.50 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 19.75 sec
 
 
Spit IX: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 530 km/h at SL, 660 km/h at 7500m
Max climb rate: 21.75 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 16.75 sec
 
 
Spit XVI: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 560 km/h at SL, 670 km/h at 7800m
Max climb rate: 20.25 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 19.25 sec
 
 
 
 
Wingprofile recalculated, Lift and drag corrected due core code changes
 
Spin and loss characteristics changed
 
 
 
Tempest V: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 616 km/h at SL, 714 km/h at 5800m
Max military climb rate: 19.65 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 21.8 sec
 
 
Typhoon Mk 1B :tuned to have this performance:
Max speed:554 km/h at SL, 655 km/h at 5300m
Max Military climb rate: 19.95 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 19.0 sec
 
 
Typhoon Mk 1B late :tuned to have this performance:
Max speed:574 km/h at SL, 639 km/h at 5300m
Max Military climb rate: 18.25 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 20.45 sec
 
 
 
Japanese FM changes:
 
zero trimmed out at mil speed and lift and drag corrected due core code changes
 
N1K2-j :tuned to have this performance:
Max speed:561 km/h at SL, 651 km/h at 6100m
Max Military climb rate: 20.25 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 19.45 sec
 
N1K2-ja :tuned to have this performance:
Max speed:563 km/h at SL, 658 km/h at 6100m
Max Military climb rate: 20.25 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 19.75 sec
 
 
 
KI-45 Ko : tuned to have this performance
Max speed: 448 km/h at SL, 542 km/h at 4800m
max military climb rate: 17.2 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 18.5 sec
 
KI-45 Otsu : tuned to have this performance;
Max speed: 470 km/h at SL, 545 km/h at 6200m
max military climb rate: 19.1 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 18.7 sec
 
KI-45 Tei : tuned to have this performance;
Max speed: 470 km/h at SL, 545 km/h at 6200m
max military climb rate: 19.1 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 18.7 sec
 
KI-45 Hei : tuned to have this performance;
Max speed: 470 km/h at SL, 545 km/h at 6200m
max military climb rate: 19.1 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 18.7 sec
 
 
 
 
American FM changes:
 
Most of them have been made much better, all should be better trimmed and made more historical
 
 
Flaps adjustments:
 
F2A series
F4F series
F6F series
F4U series
P40 series
P47 series
P38 series
P26 series
 
Aerodynamic adjustments:
 
B17 series
B25 series
F2A series
F4F series
F6F series
F4U series
P47 series
P39 series
P51 series
P26 series
 
Complete renovations:
 
A26
P38 series
P63 series
 
 
F2A-1: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 452 km/h at SL and 503 km/h at 4900m
Max climb rate: 16.8 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 16.5 sec
 
F2A-3: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 476 km/h at SL, 503 km/h at 1800m and 523 km/h at 4900m
Max climb rate: 14.5 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 22 sec
 
F4F-3: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 449 km/h at SL, 470 km/h at 1500m and 518 km/h at 5800m
Max climb rate: 14.6 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 18.9 sec
 
F4F-4: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 457 km/h at SL, 471 km/h at 1000m and 517 km/h at 5600m
Max climb rate: 14.8 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 19.9 sec
 
F6F-3: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 531 km/h at SL, 542 km/h at 700m, 602 km/h at 5000m and 610 km/h at 7100m
Max climb rate: 19.2 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 21.8 sec
 
Hellcat Mk1: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 531 km/h at SL, 542 km/h at 700m, 602 km/h at 5000m and 610 km/h at 7100m
Max climb rate: 19.2 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 21.8 sec
 
F4U-1A: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 585 km/h at SL, 655 km/h at 4100m and 670 km/h at 5500m
Max climb rate: 18.1 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 24.3 sec
 
F4U-1A IJ(minus water): tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 572 km/h at SL, 650 km/h at 4500m and 666 km/h at 5950m
Max climb rate: 16.75 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 24.3 sec
 
F4U-1D: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 587 km/h at SL, 660 km/h at 4100m and 675 km/h at 5600m
Max climb rate: 19.7 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 22.25 sec
 
F4U-1C: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 587 km/h at SL, 661 km/h at 4100m and 676 km/h at 5500m
Max climb rate: 20.3 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 21.7 sec
 
P39-K: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 525 km/h at SL, 581 km/h at 2400m
Max climb rate: 16.25 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 24.3 sec
 
P39-N: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 522 km/h at SL, 609 km/h at 3500m
Max climb rate: 16.7 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 23 sec
 
P39-Q: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 523 km/h at SL, 607 km/h at 3450m
Max climb rate: 17 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 22.9 sec
 
P-38G(Including Gift version): tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 530 km/h at SL, 675 km/h at 7000m
Max climb rate: 16.7 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 21.5 sec
 
P-40E(Including VVS version): tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 487 km/h at SL, 568 km/h at 4400m
Max climb rate: 12.9 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 24.2 sec
 
P-47-D(20): tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 523 km/h at SL, 686 km/h at 8900m
Max climb rate: 16.9 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 27.25 sec
 
P-47-D28: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 543 km/h at SL, 697 km/h at 8400m
Max climb rate: 17.6 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 25 sec
 
P-47-D28 Luftwaffe(minus water): tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 499 km/h at SL, 632 km/h at 8100m
Max climb rate: 13.5 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 26.5 sec
 
P-51-D5: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 587 km/h at SL, 671 km/h at 4200m and 702 km/h at 7700m
Max climb rate: 15.8 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 24.4 sec
 
P-51-D20: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 600 km/h at SL, 672 km/h at 2100m and 704 km/h at 6200m
Max climb rate: 16.7 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 22.9 sec
 
Mustang Mk 1A: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 534 km/h at SL, 651 km/h at 5200m
Max climb rate: 14 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 24.1 sec
 
P-63-A5: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 538 km/h at SL, 648 km/h at 7500m
Max climb rate: 18.75 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 20.3 sec
 
P-63-A10: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 577 km/h at SL, 672 km/h at 6100m
Max climb rate: 21.1 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 22.8 sec
 
P-63-C5: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 538 km/h at SL, 649 km/h at 7900m
Max climb rate: 18.9 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 20.1 sec
 
B-25-J: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 404 km/h at SL, 420 km/h at 1400m and 443 km/h at 3400m
Max climb rate: 7.6 m/sec
Virage time at 1000m: 37.9 sec
 
B-17 series: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 392 km/h at SL, 474 km/h at 7000m
Max climb rate: 5.8 m/s
Virage time at 1000m: 34.9 sec
 
P26 series: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 310 km/h at SL and 340 km/h at 2700m
Max climb rate: 8 m/s
Virage time at 1000m: 14.9 sec
 
A-26C-45: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 566 km/h at SL, 580 km/h at 980m and 572 km/h at 3300m
Max climb rate: 11.4 m/s
Virage time at 1000m: 38.5 sec
 
XP-55: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 525 km/h at SL and 632 km/h at 5500m
Max climb rate: 18.5 m/s
Virage time at 1000m: 20.5 sec
 
XP-50: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 525 km/h at SL and 682 km/h at 5000m
Max climb rate: 25 m/s
Virage time at 1000m: 19.5 sec
 
A-20G: tuned to have this performance:
Max speed: 512 km/h at SL, 527 km/h at 1100m and 536 km/h at 3300m
Max climb rate: 14.9 m/s
Virage time at 1000m: 27.5 sec
 
New Flight Models Added
 
a5m4
do_217e_2
do_217e_4
do_217j_1
do_217j_2
do_217k_1
do_217m_1
do_217n_1
ki_43_2
meteor_fmk8
p-47d
p-51b
a-26c
d_520
p-36a
p-36c
p-36g
p-47d
p-47d_luftwaffe
p-51b
 
XP-50
XP-55
Mig 3
 
 
 
Carburetor adjustments:
P26A series
 
fiat_cr42
fiat_g50_seria2
fiat_g50_seria7as
fury_mk1
fury_mk2
he51a1
he51b1
he51c1
he51c1_late
hs-129b-2
mc200_serie3
mc200_serie7
nimrod_mk1
nimrod_mk2
swordfish_mk1
 
 
allot more FMs are due to be updated with various small patches, they will be added to this thread as they are completed 
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Check the climb rates of Bf109s, FM team. They look way off. 8/s

 


+1 Main page http://kurfurst.org/index.html#tac_Ger

Abfangjager you have a big collection of Bf109 serries info. Can you provide climb rate for all Bf109s we have in game? :yes:

 

(Rate climb of a F8 Bear cat was around 23,2m/s and it made the record in climb; K4 has 24m/s)

 

I will Research. But in the house. I am at work.

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Thanks for the replys 109f4 and e3 are corrected

http://kurfurst.org/Tactical_trials/109G2_britg2trop/MET-109Gtrop_WdimPerf.html

G2/trop should have:

 

Max climb rate achieved at S.L with 1.42 ata 3950 ft/min = 20.07m/s( it is the highest of all climb rates from the table)

Tables are in the link! Check table number 5

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Answer 1.  Because they have increased XP and Lion gains, and Gaijin doesn't want to see another D13 fiasko in HB's. - That would be my guess anyways.

That's not legit, they're meant to have worse performence than their allied counterparts due to the usage of foreign fuel by their serving country as well as insufficient maintanence, thought the german P-47 seems to be too much worse than the allied one (4m/s less climb and 50km/h less topspeed seems just ridiculous, I hope this will change).

 

After all the intention behind these changes are acceptable, but you should keep it in a way not to make premium planes too unactractive in order to attract players to buy them...I can't imagine somebody buying the P-47 with this kind of poor performence.

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G6 performance:

G6: climb performance(with sand filter)

[spoiler]http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me-109g6-16476-pg7-1400.jpg[/spoiler]


Abfangjager posted:

 

 

 

This Wrong. 

 

Bf109 g6 3100 kg 

Bf109 G6/r5 3320 kg

 

Bf109 G6/R6 max speed 620 KMH  (mg151 gunpod) 

,Rüstatz kit not redecue speed, (maybe -20 -30 km. Never -100 kmh)

Rüstatz kit Reduces the maneuver. Reduce Acceleration

 

 

 

 

40132045.jpg

 

G6 should have Clmib rate: 17m/s !!( and it is without 30mm gondolas)

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G6 performance:

G6: climb performance(with sand filter)

[spoiler]http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me-109g6-16476-pg7-1400.jpg[/spoiler]


Abfangjager posted:

 

 

 

 

G6 should have Clmib rate: 17m/s !!( and it is without 30mm gondolas)

 

This Chart Little Wrong. Look G6 weight 3320 kg. This weight G6/R6. This table about Bf109 G6/R6 (2 mg151 gondolas)

 

Bf109 G6/R6 most used models . Most of the time, is considered as the main model.

 

Same wikipedia page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bf109

 

 

Specifications (Bf 109 G-6) [edit]


Data from The Great Book of Fighters[73] and the Finnish Air Force Bf 109 Manual
General characteristics
Crew: One
Length: 8.95 m (29 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 9.925 m (32 ft 6 in)
Height: 2.60 m (8 ft 2 in)
Wing area: 16.05 m² (173.3 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,247 kg (5,893 lb)
Loaded weight: 3,148 kg (6,940 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 3,400 kg (7,495 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Daimler-Benz DB 605A-1 liquid-cooled inverted V12, 1,475 PS (1,455 hp, 1,085 kW)
Propellers: VDM 9-12087 three-bladed light-alloy propeller
Propeller diameter: 3 m (9 ft 10 in)
Performance
Maximum speed: 640 km/h (398 mph) at 6,300 m (20,669 ft)
Cruise speed: 590 km/h (365 mph) at 6,000 m (19,680 ft)
Range: 850 km (528 mi) 1,000 km (621 mi) with droptank
Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,370 ft)
Rate of climb: 17.0 m/s (3,345 ft/min)
Wing loading: 196 kg/m² (40 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 344 W/kg (0.21 hp/lb)
Armament
Guns:
2 × 13 mm (.51 in) synchronized MG 131 machine guns with 300 rounds per gun
1 × 20 mm MG 151 cannon as Motorkanone with 200 rpg.[74] G-6/U4 variant: 1 × 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 cannon as Motorkanone with 65 rpg
2 × 20 mm MG 151/20 underwing cannon pods with 135 rpg (optional kit—Rüstsatz VI)
Rockets: 2 × 21 cm (8 in) Wfr. Gr. 21 rockets (G-6 with BR21)
Bombs: 1 × 250 kg (551 lb) bomb or 4 × 50 kg (110 lb) bombs or 1 × 300-litre (79 US gal) drop tank
Avionics
FuG 16Z radio

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This Chart Little Wrong. Look G6 weight 3320 kg. This weight G6/R6. This table Bf109 G6/R6 (2 mg151 gondolas)

 

Bf109 G6/R6 most used models . Most of the time, is considered as the main model.

 

Same wikipedia page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bf109

 

 

Specifications (Bf 109 G-6) [edit]


Data from The Great Book of Fighters[73] and the Finnish Air Force Bf 109 Manual
General characteristics
Crew: One
Length: 8.95 m (29 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 9.925 m (32 ft 6 in)
Height: 2.60 m (8 ft 2 in)
Wing area: 16.05 m² (173.3 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,247 kg (5,893 lb)
Loaded weight: 3,148 kg (6,940 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 3,400 kg (7,495 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Daimler-Benz DB 605A-1 liquid-cooled inverted V12, 1,475 PS (1,455 hp, 1,085 kW)
Propellers: VDM 9-12087 three-bladed light-alloy propeller
Propeller diameter: 3 m (9 ft 10 in)
Performance
Maximum speed: 640 km/h (398 mph) at 6,300 m (20,669 ft)
Cruise speed: 590 km/h (365 mph) at 6,000 m (19,680 ft)
Range: 850 km (528 mi) 1,000 km (621 mi) with droptank
Service ceiling: 12,000 m (39,370 ft)
Rate of climb: 17.0 m/s (3,345 ft/min)
Wing loading: 196 kg/m² (40 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 344 W/kg (0.21 hp/lb)
Armament
Guns:
2 × 13 mm (.51 in) synchronized MG 131 machine guns with 300 rounds per gun
1 × 20 mm MG 151 cannon as Motorkanone with 200 rpg.[74] G-6/U4 variant: 1 × 30 mm (1.18 in) MK 108 cannon as Motorkanone with 65 rpg
2 × 20 mm MG 151/20 underwing cannon pods with 135 rpg (optional kit—Rüstsatz VI)
Rockets: 2 × 21 cm (8 in) Wfr. Gr. 21 rockets (G-6 with BR21)
Bombs: 1 × 250 kg (551 lb) bomb or 4 × 50 kg (110 lb) bombs or 1 × 300-litre (79 US gal) drop tank
Avionics
FuG 16Z radio

Wiki pages doesent count, only original documents please!

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Wiki pages doesent count, only original documents please!

 

Okey . After work. But, G6 will never be slower than g2.

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/28591-messerschmitt-bf109-g5-g6/

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Wiki pages doesent count, only original documents please!

It was given to you at a previous page! G2 as well!

http://kurfurst.org/...p_WdimPerf.html

 

G2/trop should have:

Max climb rate achieved at S.L with 1.42 ata 3950 ft/min = 20.07m/s( it is the highest of all climb rates from the table)

Tables are in the link! Check table number 5

G6:
40132045.jpg

 

"This Chart Little Wrong. Look G6 weight 3320 kg. This weight G6/R6. This table about Bf109 G6/R6 (2 mg151 gondolas)

 

Bf109 G6/R6 most used models . Most of the time, is considered as the main model."-Abfangjager

 

Ergo it is closer to the Bf109G6/R5 model with 30mm.( I hope at the end of the day we can have accurate Climb rates for R5 version)

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Can you please check out Corsair"s climb rate? I think its too high. The speeds are OK. I though they are overtuned too but I found out more material where I can see huge difference between military power and WEP using water-injection system.

 

Also I ve noticed that U-1c has better climbing and turn-rate than U-1d. I have somewhere document which can maybe help you because there was a take-off weight comparsion of those variants. U-1c is heavier due to Hispano MkI/AN-M2 cannons. The pilots notes are also saying that U-1c is less agile than 6x50cal Browning version.

 

There it is...  http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4u/f4u-1d-acp.pdf

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Nothing for the D520? :/

 

Yes that is also incorrect

 

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109E_French_trials/french_109e_performanceT.html

 

states a Maximum of 15.1 m/s was achieved by the BF 109 E-3 at 4000m

 

At 1000m the climb rate is stated as  13.88 m/s

 

Please Trojan take a look at these documents and compare them to notes your teams have to clarify any clerical errors.

 

yes, plus it should be noted those graph were made from tests using the standard 92 octane fuel of the FAF, that is, richer than the fuel then used in the Luftwaffe (87 octane). Other tests were done in the CEMA which indeed reached a top speed of 570km/h... Pushing the engine to the limit and using 100 octane fuel!

 

Please Gaijin guys, keep in mind that was a time of great propaganda... You'd better double check every document!

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Good source. 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me109g.html

 

Bf109 g6/r5 

 

Speed influence of 2 MK 108
under the wings of the ME 109 G.

 

Results: Speed without mockup Vw = 326 mph   (525 km/h)

  Speed with mockup Vw = 322 mpg   (519 km/h)

  Speed loss due to mockups  ΔV = 4 mph   (6 km/h)

  n = 2600 U/min; p – 1,30 ata; B = 717 mm Hg;
  t = 19°C; H = 480 m.
Sea level speed = 316 mph (509 km/h) after corrections.

 

Full test Bf109 G6/R6 

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/me109g6-tactical.html
 

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Yes that is also incorrect

 

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109E_French_trials/french_109e_performanceT.html

 

states a Maximum of 15.1 m/s was achieved by the BF 109 E-3 at 4000m

 

At 1000m the climb rate is stated as  13.88 m/s

 

Please Trojan take a look at these documents and compare them to notes your teams have to clarify any clerical errors.

 

Does nobody ever read  the notes anymore....

 

 

 

However, with regards to climbs, the
obtained results are clearly inferior to the performance claimed by the
German manual. Yet, four single climbs were done, in order to find out
the optimal speed before the climbs done on the 12/23/39.

    The table below shows the resulting difference between the claimed per-
formance and the obtained performance.

Table

 

    (The 5% tolerance claimed in the german booklet is widely exceeded.)

The climbing was done at the Center with the radiators open up to 4000 m.

then progressively closed until 8300m. It is possible that the different components (1)

used by the German tests could permit climbing with closed radiators.

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Does nobody ever read  the notes anymore....

If you read the above, it says they needed to open the radiators due to high coolant and oil temp, the engine begins to overheat at higher altitudes..

 

There is no way the BF 109 E-3 could ever manage 20 m/s climb speed perhaps 17m/s radiator closed.

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If you read the above, it says they needed to open the radiators due to high coolant and oil temp, the engine begins to overheat at higher altitudes..

 

There is no way the BF 109 E-3 could ever manage 20 m/s climb speed perhaps 17m/s radiator closed.

 

What's the point of posting random performance charts based of flawed tests of captured aircraft?

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That's not legit, they're meant to have worse performence than their allied counterparts due to the usage of foreign fuel by their serving country as well as insufficient maintanence, thought the german P-47 seems to be too much worse than the allied one (4m/s less climb and 50km/h less topspeed seems just ridiculous, I hope this will change).

 

After all the intention behind these changes are acceptable, but you should keep it in a way not to make premium planes too unactractive in order to attract players to buy them...I can't imagine somebody buying the P-47 with this kind of poor performence.

The German P-47 also has the lowest reward stat of any other tier 9 fighter, even less than tier 7. This plane is already unattractive and will be completely pointless if these nerfs to its stats are implemented.

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What about Bf-109K4?

1). Virage time at 1000m: 21.75 sec

It is better than your G-2 and G-10 figures. I don't have any performance tests of virage, but I really can't imagine how kurfurst with gondola guns can have virage time better than gustavs without it. Gustavs have lighter wing loading.

2). Max climb rate: 24.00 m/sec

Bf-109K-4 without gondola guns and with MW-50 had max climb rate 22,5 m/sec. Bf-109K-6 with Mk-108 gondola guns (this modification is roughly equal to our game model) have only 20,25 m/sec.

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109K_PBLeistungen/files/5026_28_DBSonder_MW_steig.jpg

3). Max speed: 585 km/h at SL, 715 km/h at 7500m

At SL Bf-109K-4 with Mk-108 gondola guns perfectly tuned, gj. But at 7400m Bf-109K-4 with Mk-103 gondola guns can reach only 707 km/h.

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109K_PBLeistungen/files/5026-27_DBSonder_MW_geschw.jpg

Edited by Delip
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Speeds for the bf 109 are wrong.

 

 

Speed for the BF 109 G2

 

Max speed at 23,500 feet is 375 mph or 603 km/h with 1.3 ata

 

Max speed  at SL  305  mph or 490 km/h with 1.3 ata

 

 

Results based off table 4 in the following page.

 

http://kurfurst.org/Tactical_trials/109G2_britg2trop/MET-109Gtrop_WdimPerf.html

 

 

Still the Germans have better then historical performances...and appear to have a much greater speed then what has been recorded.

 

 

Same with your G2 data, Allied tests, especially the early 109 ones were flown with crashed or improperly maintained planes, so why bother?

 

Edit: Otherwise lets take the Soviet tests of the P51 as the performance benchmark....

 

This calculated performance sheet was prepeared just a month before the operational introduction of the Bf 109G, by when serial production was already under way. The calculations were acceped as the official performance specifications for the Bf 109G-1 subtype, as these very figures were repeated as reference values in a report on the ERLA factory's speed measurements on 13 serial production aircraft (along with the +/- 3% tolerance limits, ie. a minimum 640, maximum 680 km/h being the borders for acceptance by BAL). 

     Appearantly the calculated dataset proved rather accurate - the avarage of the ERLA values obtained on production airframes was 652 km/h  (the accepted airfames results ranged from 632 to 664 km/h, the three rejected airframes below the minimum tolerance not included), and three production airframes exceeding the reference specification; however the avarage the rated altitudes measured (ranging 6450m to 6950m) was lower, 6700m, probably as a result of the greater variance in thermal effiency than expected originally.
    It should be noted that the ERLA values were obtained with 120 mm wide radiator flap opening, about three times of the usual standard Schnellflugstellung (which was 40mm), resulting in higher drag and must have reduced the obtained speed results slightly.

    Trials at E-Stelle Rechlin on a Bf 109G-1 - the results were later becoming the official specifications for the type in a Kennblatt issued on 8 March 1943 - resulted in 650 kph at 6400m; the tested aircraft appearantly had a fixed tailwheel resulting 12 km/h speed loss, which needs to be taken account.

    Soviet performance trials at the NII VVS with a captured Bf 109G-2,  Werknummer 14 513 are in remarkably good agreement with the Messerschmitt datasheet below : 666 kph was achieved at 7000m altitude. This aircraft's tailwheel was semi-retractable and thus the results are directly comparable to the Messerschmitt datasheet below.

    Similiar factory trials as Erla's were performed at the W.N.F. and Messerschmitt Regensburg factories underlined Rechlin's (and thus Erla's as well) values.

  • For graphical comparison of these trials, please follow this link.

      All aformentioned trials were done at Steig- und Kampfleistungs, ie. 1,3ata boost and 2600 rpm.
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[quote name="Cy30rg" post="474403" timestamp="1369997195"]Same with your G2 data, Allied tests, especially the early 109 ones were flown with crashed or improperly maintained planes, so why bother?[/quote] Yes, that's why we modeled along the original service handbooks
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What's the point of posting random performance charts based of flawed tests of captured aircraft?

 

Same with your G2 data, Allied tests, especially the early 109 ones were flown with crashed or improperly maintained planes, so why bother?

You are undermining the effort to bring the planes into the real shape. Stop it.

 

German sources are very close to the Allied. It is impossible for K4 to reach 24m/s with gondolas. It had max 22,5m/s without them!

See that post, the data from the links are in German!

 

What about Bf-109K4?

1). Virage time at 1000m: 21.75 sec

It is better than your G-2 and G-10 figures. I don't have any performance tests of virage, but I really can't imagine how kurfurst with gondola guns can have virage time better than gustavs without it. Gustavs have lighter wing loading.

2). Max climb rate: 24.00 m/sec

Bf-109K-4 without gondola guns and with MW-50 had max climb rate 22,5 m/sec. Bf-109K-6 with Mk-103 gondola guns (this modification is equal to our game model) have only 20,25 m/sec.

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109K_PBLeistungen/files/5026_28_DBSonder_MW_steig.jpg

3). Max speed: 585 km/h at SL, 715 km/h at 7500m

At SL Bf-109K-4 with Mk-103 gondola guns perfectly tuned, gj. But at 7400m Bf-109K-4 with Mk-103 gondola guns can reach only 707 km/h.

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109K_PBLeistungen/files/5026-27_DBSonder_MW_geschw.jpg

 

The climb rates are too high regardless of source!

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