Slayer3XD

How to deal with uptiers: an organogram

Title says it all.

 

Personally, it has been keeping me from getting too frustrated with this game. Whenever I get uptiered while playing the US or Germany I switch to another nation and this will soon make me start playing the British or Soviet tank trees. 

 

No need for force yourself go through all the frustration and lose Silver Lions on matches you already know you won't enjoy.

How to deal with uptiers.png

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I'm sure you realize that it's exactly because of people leaving the match whenever they don't like it that the Crew Lock system had to be introduced in the first place, yes?

 

We all have matches we don't like, but with any matchmaking system, matches we don't like can not be excluded. Leaving a match intentionally is - in my personal view - a pretty selfish way out, as it always leaves your team one player short, making it harder and less enjoyable for your team.

 

A vicious cycle, if that motivates even more people to desert...

 

Edit:

I realize that one argument that is pretty sure to pop up is that "the devs will start to listen if the players 'boycot' certain matches or maps". But if BR-adjustments are actually done taking into account the success statistics of any vehicle, only playing those vehicles in matches where they're matched against (in our eyes) superior forces will provide the necessary data to help devs shift BR one way or another. Not playing will obviously not provide any useful data, so I'd assume a boycot wouldn't really change anything...

 

 

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That's cheap  :D Even if you get Uptier you still can manage to do something ^^

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5 hours ago, Schindibee said:

I'm sure you realize that it's exactly because of people leaving the match whenever they don't like it that the Crew Lock system had to be introduced in the first place, yes?

 

We all have matches we don't like, but with any matchmaking system, matches we don't like can not be excluded. Leaving a match intentionally is - in my personal view - a pretty selfish way out, as it always leaves your team one player short, making it harder and less enjoyable for your team.

 

A vicious cycle, if that motivates even more people to desert...

 

Edit:

I realize that one argument that is pretty sure to pop up is that "the devs will start to listen if the players 'boycot' certain matches or maps". But if BR-adjustments are actually done taking into account the success statistics of any vehicle, only playing those vehicles in matches where they're matched against (in our eyes) superior forces will provide the necessary data to help devs shift BR one way or another. Not playing will obviously not provide any useful data, so I'd assume a boycot wouldn't really change anything...

 

 

I do that because there are matches that I know for sure they will be a losing game.

 

Not that I quit every uptier I got, but the nation you're facing, the map, the top/bottom BR ratio and its spread, simply make a lot of matches being not worth to play.

 

Take matches with a 6.7 line up vs Russia at 7.3, I know there will be plenty of IS-6, I know even if I do well the repair costs and the ammo costs since HEAT-FS, since it is the only shell that is consistently capable of defeating the IS-6, will leave me with a net negative or not have enough gains. My last loss on one of those matches netted me 5 kills but the ammo and repair costs of my vehicles, along losing the match made me lose over 10K SL.

 

Same thing when I get uptired on Germany against a 6.7 on an urban map with a 5.7 line up, had been a map where I can say in a decent position I could stay there, but being uptiered on a map like Eastern Europe, Advancing over the Rhine and Stalingrad, knowing the tendency of the German teams to just rush the caps makes me sure I know we will lose the match, since in those I am usually among the last to die over being zerged by the enemy teams. 

 

So what kind of incentive do I have to stay on those matches? Be cannon fodder and target practice? Not to mention the match maker loves to do things like uptiering an entire team filled with 6.7 tanks against a team that has a lot more 7.3 and 7.7 tanks, or the classic one with the top BR on the team being 5.3 while Germany/Russia gets a team full of 5.7 tanks. 

 

I usually don't mind being uptiered to 6.3 on a German 5.7 line up or to 7.7 with my US line up against Japan/Germany because I know I can deal with the tanks in those uptiers, even the top BR ones. Meanwhile any uptier with Russia on it will be an automatic headache because I know the team will be filled with IS-3, IS-6 and T-54s. 

 

Also you have the constant full uptiering in this game, it really sucks the joy out of it, some matches with my US line up I had full 6 uptiers and 2 7.3 uptiers of 8 matches against Russia and on a 6.7 line up and those had six losses in a row and with Germany I had 5 full uptiers in a roll with a 5.7 line up.

 

It isn't fun and it is definitely something I want to put up with all the time. Even if Gaijin doesn't reduce the 1.0 spread on the match maker they at least should make being fully downtiered and fully uptiered less likely to happen.

 

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3 hours ago, elbadr said:

That's cheap  :D Even if you get Uptier you still can manage to do something ^^

Try that when you play the Brits at 5.3. You have ONE good tank, the Comet. When you get uptiered and die in it, you're only choices are 4.7 tank. Then in a 6.3 match. More than hammering someone with machine-guns ain't gonna happen.

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11 hours ago, IronVader501 said:

Try that when you play the Brits at 5.3. You have ONE good tank, the Comet. When you get uptiered and die in it, you're only choices are 4.7 tank. Then in a 6.3 match. More than hammering someone with machine-guns ain't gonna happen.

 

The Iron Duke comet really pays off in that respect, if you have both Comets and backup vehicles on them you can have up to 4 Comets in a game lol.

 

5.3 British isn't too bad actually since you mainly fight Tiger I's and possibly T-34-85's + IS tanks, the Comet with APDS butters all of them and even the 17pdr with Mk.8 shot can penetrate just about anything before 6.3, it's just that the gun is usually mounted on a **** tank and it does **** damage.

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22 hours ago, Slayer3XD said:

 

No need for force yourself go through all the frustration and lose Silver Lions on matches you already know you won't enjoy.

J out is the way)))

nice diagram can i borrow it and pate on polish forums? )))

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How's this for an idea, top tier has the advertised repair and reward costs, each step down gets a discount to repair costs and a boost to rewards. Surely this would go close to eliminating the discontent with the BR spread. It seems so simple to me....

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2 hours ago, GoForTheEyesBoo said:

How's this for an idea, top tier has the advertised repair and reward costs, each step down gets a discount to repair costs and a boost to rewards. Surely this would go close to eliminating the discontent with the BR spread. It seems so simple to me....

Hm, that actually would be an interesting idea...

 

Maybe put it in an elaborate suggestion thread?   = )

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2 hours ago, PhugTheWar said:

That's by far not better than his one.

I like it actually!

 

But it should be decorated propperly:
 

Spoiler

giphy.gif

 

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8 hours ago, GoForTheEyesBoo said:

How's this for an idea, top tier has the advertised repair and reward costs, each step down gets a discount to repair costs and a boost to rewards. Surely this would go close to eliminating the discontent with the BR spread. It seems so simple to me....

 

Or the lower tiers get higher rewards? 

Make the Rank Doesnt Matter etc kick in lower and pay well. So even if you only get one kill, you made enough S/L to pay for all repairs and a bit of extra RP

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4 hours ago, ThirtyWorse said:

I made a better one for you.

nguns.png

I have one for you too.

 

29 minutes ago, *Lyrch75 said:

 

Or the lower tiers get higher rewards? 

Make the Rank Doesnt Matter etc kick in lower and pay well. So even if you only get one kill, you made enough S/L to pay for all repairs and a bit of extra RP

I'd rather have the Skill Matters and Rank Doesn't Matter be similar like multistrike or shadow strike awards. 

 

You get one whenever you kill someone a full BR higher than you instead of just once.

 

Take the last match I had yesterday, I'd usually quit but the map and team were weren't bad for that type of uptier so I gave it a try, had it been in a map like Rhine or Berlin and my team were filled with only lower BR'ed tanks, I'd leave but it doesn't mean me or everyone quits every match if they are uptiered. Just check if the match maker didn't throw you into another lopsided match where you only have 6.3 and 6.7 tanks fighting mostly 7.0 and 7.3 tanks. 

never-gonna-give-you-up-rickroll-flowchart.png

Don't want me to quit ---- Soviet .wrpl

Edited by Slayer3XD
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1 hour ago, Slayer3XD said:

I have one for you too.

 

I'd rather have the Skill Matters and Rank Doesn't Matter be similar like multistrike or shadow strike awards. 

 

You get one whenever you kill someone a full BR higher than you instead of just once.

 

Take the last match I had yesterday, I'd usually quit but the map and team were weren't bad for that type of uptier so I gave it a try, had it been in a map like Rhine or Berlin and my team were filled with only lower BR'ed tanks, I'd leave but it doesn't mean me or everyone quits every match if they are uptiered. Just check if the match maker didn't throw you into another lopsided match where you only have 6.3 and 6.7 tanks fighting mostly 7.0 and 7.3 tanks. 

never-gonna-give-you-up-rickroll-flowchart.png

Don't want me to quit ---- Soviet .wrpl

 

Yeah, that would be a good change. 

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The easiest way to not have this issue is 

1. Play AB, no BR mismatch.

2. Build a lineup where you have a light tank that hits like a truck and then a heavy tank that can take a hit.

3. If you're at the top of the list take the heavy and crush the opposition, if you're at the bottom grab the light and flank. 

 

Then you never have to leave, you'll win all the time and generally be happy. Just don't build crappy lineups and don't play bad tanks . Then when you feel confident play a piece of crap tank for a challenge. I play the game this way and practically never get frustrated.

Edited by inset_judgement
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5 hours ago, inset_judgement said:

The easiest way to not have this issue is 

1. Play AB, no BR mismatch.

2. Build a lineup where you have a light tank that hits like a truck and then a heavy tank that can take a hit.

3. If you're at the top of the list take the heavy and crush the opposition, if you're at the bottom grab the light and flank. 

 

Then you never have to leave, you'll win all the time and generally be happy. Just don't build crappy lineups and don't play bad tanks . Then when you feel confident play a piece of crap tank for a challenge. I play the game this way and practically never get frustrated.

How do AB players not want to rip their hair out? I tried playing the victory day tournament and stopped after 3 games. AB is far more enraging and pointless than RB.

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3 hours ago, brrtshka42 said:

How do AB players not want to rip their hair out? I tried playing the victory day tournament and stopped after 3 games. AB is far more enraging and pointless than RB.

I could ask the same thing about RB. I find it an incredibly boring game mode with major problems:

1. ULQ/Bushes make it so you have a visual disadvantage on spotting enemies if you play without this stuff. Also the game has rendering problems with tanks, at least when they're tagged its mitigated.

2. Wrote about this before: "So I almost never played RB before and decided to try a few games and I have to say it's real bad. I drove out, killed 6 tanks with ease and went straight to the point, this was the fun part: I especially liked how there was no aim indicator. After this, it was nothing but frustration, it turns out it takes about 10 minutes to capture a point with the radius of like 2 tank lengths. All the people I had splattered spawned in bombers or AA's and just started spamming me with arty/bombs, eventually I died spawned in an AA and shot them down. They spawned in tanks, and it keeps going and going. Most of the time there's no one on the map, its hide and seek and if you go to a point you get 20 kilotons of explosives dropped on you. Very lame."

3. Severe BR mismatch, some nations do not have lineups for certain BRs and are thus always undertiered against certain other nations, 6.7 has this problem for soviets while 5.3 has this for germans.

4. The air spam is even worse than even in AB, how is this even possible?

5. Everyone drives on the map edge because the game takes 20 years and they can afford to.

 

I think many people get frustrated by AB because it tests reflexes, but any good shooter should. If you can knock up the frags you can win 60-80% of the time in AB and I find that very satisfying.

Edited by inset_judgement
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On 6.5.2017 at 6:28 PM, inset_judgement said:

4. The air spam is even worse than even in AB, how is this even possible?

Not sure about that. Might be possible though.

But you sum up the critical aspects. I would really prefer RB over AB. But the disadvantages... In AB the balancing gets fixed inherently, at least when it comes to the performance of the different nations...

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5 hours ago, PhugTheWar said:

Not sure about that. Might be possible though.

But you sum up the critical aspects. I would really prefer RB over AB. But the disadvantages... In AB the balancing gets fixed inherently, at least when it comes to the performance of the different nations...

Yeah before the introduction of the T29 and IS-6 6.7 in AB was pure Germany vs Germany which highlighted how badly balanced that BR was for RB. Nowadays its still poorly balanced for RB (premium dependent balance, really Gaijin?) but also annoying to play in AB.

Edited by inset_judgement
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@Slayer3XD

Just one tip how to improve your diagram. You can always put into your line-up reserve vehicle and spawn in before leaving your game. Your crews will not be locked and reserve vehicles are free to repair (or very cheap, not sure now). 

So it should be like this: Is it against nation or BR you enjoy playing on?---->NO--->Spawn reserve before leaving the match---->Join match

Its little bit cheap and definitely not fun, but if someone struggle in uptiers facing is6 this could help.

 

Works only in RB

Edited by BodyeCZ
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2 hours ago, BodyeCZ said:

@Slayer3XD

Just one tip how to improve your diagram. You can always put into your line-up reserve vehicle and spawn in before leaving your game. Your crews will not be locked and reserve vehicles are free to repair (or very cheap, not sure now). 

So it should be like this: Is it against nation or BR you enjoy playing on?---->NO--->Spawn reserve before leaving the match---->Join match

Its little bit cheap and definitely not fun, but if someone struggle in uptiers facing is6 this could help.

 

Works only in RB

So if people start abusing the system that way, it becomes a thing, and the crew lock mechanism is changed so this is not possible anymore - probably only by making the mechnism more strict and unforgiving for everybody else, can we then come to you to thank you?

 

Crew Lock was implemented to prevent people from leaving the matches too early, damaging their team, and finding ways to trick the mechanism may well lead to stronger measure to counter leaving the matches...

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1 hour ago, Schindibee said:

So if people start abusing the system that way, it becomes a thing, and the crew lock mechanism is changed so this is not possible anymore - probably only by making the mechnism more strict and unforgiving for everybody else, can we then come to you to thank you?

 

Crew Lock was implemented to prevent people from leaving the matches too early, damaging their team, and finding ways to trick the mechanism may well lead to stronger measure to counter leaving the matches...

I just tried it and it still works ;). time to fix it then

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