Sirchby

tanks/vehicles
M36B2 Jackson (M3A1): Modernized Tank Hunter

M36B2 (M3A1)   115 members have voted

  1. 1. Should M36B2 (M3A1) be added to the game?

    • Yes. U.S. Ground Forces Tech Tree is running very low on tank destroyers
      112
    • No. No need for more American vehicles
      3
  2. 2. What status should it be?

    • Regular: There is simply not enough American regular tank destroyer
      105
    • Premium: America needs to have the most Tier 4 premium in the game
      6
    • Event: Don't want to see a lot of this tank destroyer in game even if it's mass produced & saw combat
      4
  3. 3. Should M36B2 (M3A1) have additional .30 cal on top of the turret?

    • Yes. It looks good on top of it. Just like Fury
      94
    • No. It's not important
      21

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95 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

http://i.imgur.com/QG2wiWj.jpg

 

M36B2 is the latest variant of the M36 Jackson tank destroyer.

 

First produced in March 1945, due to continuing demand for 90 mm gun motor carriages, there were not enough M10A1 hull to be converted into M36. So the solution was to use the remaining M10 hull, designated as T71E1. it was later classified as the Substitute Standard 90 mm Gun Motor Carriage M36B2, & additional 52 were converted at the Montreal Locomotive Works by the end of the year.

 

M36B2 is based from M10, which is from M4A2 (with diesel engine)

M36 is based from M10A1, which is from M4A3 (with gasoline engine)

 

2mFKRsQ.jpg

 

724 M36B2 were built from WWII - Post-WWII.

Primarily used by America, South Korea, & France during Korean War.

 


 

http://i.imgur.com/kVCFVB7.jpg

 

Specification:

Weight: 29.93 ton (66,000 lbs)

Crew: 5 men (commander, driver, radio operator, gunner, loader)

Engine: General Motors Series 71, Mod. 6046 twin diesel

Engine power (net): 375 hp at 2100 rpm

Engine power (gross): 410 hp at 2900 rpm

Power-to-weight: 12.68 hp/ton

Transmission: Synchromesh, 5-speed forward, 1 reverse

Suspension: VVSS with spaced out "E9" suspension for extender end connectors "duckbill"

Pivot: n/a

Max speed: 40 km/h

Turret rotation speed: 24°/s

Vertical guidance: -10 / 20°

 

Hull armor:

Front

Upper: 38.1 mm (55°)

Lower: 50.8 - 108 mm (0 - 56°)

Sides

Upper: 19.05 mm (38°)

Lower: 25.4 mm (0°)

Rear

Upper: 19.05 mm (38°)

Lower: 19.05 mm (0°)

Top

Front: 19.05 mm

Rear: 9.5 mm

Floor

Bottom: 12.7 mm

 

Turret armor:

Mantlet: 76.2 mm

Front: 31.75 mm

Sides: 31.75 mm

Rear: 44.45 mm - 127 mm (counterweight)

Top: 9.5 - 25.4 mm

 

Main gun:

90 mm M3A1 L/53 (47 rounds)

Muzzle velocity: 853 m/s

Standard/sustained rate of fire: 8 RPM (7.5 seconds)

Maximum rate of fire: 15 RPM (4 seconds)

 

Secondary gun:

12.7 mm M2HB (flexible AA mount) (1000 rounds)

 

Additional gun:

7.62 mm M1919A4 (flexible AA mount) (3000 rounds)

 

 

 

Here's French RBCEO M36B2 with additional .30 cal MG

CA3OJN6.jpg

 


 

The variant to be introduced in the game is not going to be the original M36B2 with 90 mm M3 L/53. But its modernized version, armed with 90 mm M3A1 L/53 gun, with noticeable difference being installed with bore evacuator & single-baffle muzzle brake.

 

Since both M36B2 & M46 have the same gun with the same munitions during Korean War, it had 90 mm M348A1 (T108E46) HEAT-FS shell, primarily purposed to destroy Soviet-made tanks in Korea, especially the M36B2 is classified as tank destroyer.

 

90 mm M3A1 ammunition:

M82 APCBC-HE Late (140 gr Exp. D)

M71 HE

M318 APBC

M304 APCR

M332 APCR

T108E46 / M348A1 HEAT-FS (latest mod of T108 HEAT in service)

 

 

TM 9-718 - Medium Tanks M46 and M46A1
Service ammunition:

Spoiler

 

https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2016_10/57f88a6d37d9f_M46AuthRoundspg1.jpg.a7c4ce3239a8f089da910936fe5b0435.jpg

M46 Auth Rounds pg2.jpg

M46 Auth Rounds pg3.jpg

M46 Auth Rounds pg4.jpg

M46 Auth Rounds pg5.jpg

 

 

 

 

Patton: A History of the American Main Battle Tank

Weapon datasheet:

Spoiler

https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2016_10/57f90d48cd809_90mmM3A1Datasheet.jpg.98c41e6f85283ff184d053bb3eff257d.jpg

 


 

Primary Sources:

TM 9-718 - Medium Tanks M46 and M46A1 (1951)

TM 9-745 - 90-mm Gun Motor Carriage M36B2 (1945)

 

Secondary Sources:

M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers 1942-1953 (Steven Zaloga, 2002)

Sherman: A History of the American Medium Tank (R.P. Hunnicutt, 1971)

Patton: A History of the American Main Battle Tank (R.P. Hunnicutt, 1984)

 

Compilation Sources:

AFV Database - 90 mm GMC M36

Edited by Sirchby
Added M36 hull types
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M348 will not be modeled correctly if this tank is added. M348 is the "HEAT" round on the M46, If addded, It will likely be severely underperforming and won't add much to the vehicle aside from being a 210mm pen. HEAT round, however incorrect it is, as it is on the M46.

 

So I'd say BR 5.7 as well, or 6.0

 

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Posted (edited)

Just gonna throw some stuff here for you to add to the original post if you want to.  Or at the very least to add more to the thread ;). 

 

NfKw8tp.jpgYIbTW5W.jpg

2mFKRsQ.jpgFvVjlzy.jpg

 

The above images are all cuts from "M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers 1942-53." S J Zaloga, Osprey Publishing. 

 

 

This is an early post war M36B2, prior to the conversion to the M3A1 gun by the Korean War.  Again this also displays the E9 wide track suspension that they were commonly upgraded with.  From TM 9-734, 1950.  90mm Guns M3 and M3A1 For Combat Vehicles.

555741T.jpg

 

As far as Ammunition load goes you're looking at the same as the M46 Patton.  M318, M82, M304 or M332, and M348. 

 

Edited by Conraire
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1 hour ago, Conraire said:

Just gonna throw some stuff here for you to add to the original post if you want to.  Or at the very least to add more to the thread ;). 

 

NfKw8tp.jpgYIbTW5W.jpg

2mFKRsQ.jpgFvVjlzy.jpg

 

The above images are all cuts from "M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers 1942-53." S J Zaloga, Osprey Publishing. 

 

 

This is an early post war M36B2, prior to the conversion to the M3A1 gun by the Korean War.  Again this also displays the E9 wide track suspension that they were commonly upgraded with.  From TM 9-734, 1950.  90mm Guns M3 and M3A1 For Combat Vehicles.

555741T.jpg

 

As far as Ammunition load goes you're looking at the same as the M46 Patton.  M318, M82, M304 or M332, and M348. 

 

 

Well,

I forgot to replace T33 with T33E7.

 

Going to write down track model as a part of modernization feature.

 

Should be good now. 

Thanks for reminding. :good:

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22 hours ago, F7UCutlass said:

M348 will not be modeled correctly if this tank is added. M348 is the "HEAT" round on the M46, If addded, It will likely be severely underperforming and won't add much to the vehicle aside from being a 210mm pen. HEAT round, however incorrect it is, as it is on the M46.

 

So I'd say BR 5.7 as well, or 6.0

 

 

I know.

 

But I'm just showing the historical version of the shell, which is what a suggestion is supposed to do.

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we need both later models of the the M36. both the B1 and B2 are kickass and overdue!

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5 hours ago, admiral_aruon said:

we need both later models of the the M36. both the B1 and B2 are kickass and overdue!

 

B1 has already been suggested.

So I take the B2 instead since no one started it yet.

 

(Rushed this so no one will ever suggest the M36B2 with 90 mm M3, which is basically going to be exactly similar to M36 if someone doesn't point out it has 90 mm M3A1 from modernization)

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It might be useful to separate the B2 as two variants: a late WWII variant as either a premium, gift, or regular, and a Korean War era with all the bells and whistles at a higher BR of 6.3-6.7: HEATFS, AA .30 cal, roof armor, E9 tracks, M3A1 cannon.

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2 hours ago, Retry said:

It might be useful to separate the B2 as two variants: a late WWII variant as either a premium, gift, or regular, and a Korean War era with all the bells and whistles at a higher BR of 6.3-6.7: HEATFS, AA .30 cal, roof armor, E9 tracks, M3A1 cannon.

 

The only exact difference will be the engine.

 

I mean, what makes it special compared to M36 if it's a premium? or Rare?

 

Well, at least M10(90) is different which makes it good premium version of 5.7 M36 instead of M36B2.

 

1 variant of the latest build of M36B2 is suffice.

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14 minutes ago, Sirchby said:

 

The only exact difference will be the engine.

 

I mean, what makes it special compared to M36 if it's a premium? or Rare?

 

Well, at least M10(90) is different which makes it good premium version of 5.7 M36 instead of M36B2.

 

1 variant of the latest build of M36B2 is suffice.

Never heard of the M10(90), that'd work better.

A WWII variant of the M36B2 would still be nifty for WW2 chronicles events as an extra spawn.

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1 hour ago, Retry said:

Never heard of the M10(90), that'd work better.

A WWII variant of the M36B2 would still be nifty for WW2 chronicles events as an extra spawn.

 

M10(90) was a testbed to arm tank destroyer with 90 mm gun. A precusor of the M36.

 

M36B2 (M3) is still redundant for the tech tree, but should be convenient for, say, event tank or bundle tank (especially given U.S. has 2 Tier 4 premium tank destroyers with this to add more).

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3 hours ago, Wilhuff_Tarkin_ said:

I'd say 6.7 with HEAT

 

Neh, not with the M46 sitting at 6.7.  Armor on the M36 is nowhere near as good, same for mobility. 

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4 hours ago, Wilhuff_Tarkin_ said:

I'd say 6.7 with HEAT

 

Wouldn't place an inferior tank destroyer with the same armament of the medium tank at the same BR.

 

TD rule: Lower BR than tanks carrying the same gun if all-around performance is unsatisfactory.

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8 hours ago, Sirchby said:

TD rule: Lower BR than tanks carrying the same gun if all-around performance is unsatisfactory.

I'd rather treat that as a "yet another respawn" in vehicle that has 90mm gun.

And don't forget as a TD it only get 190sp Spawn Point Cost in RB. RoF migh also be superior to a M46.

Its a late war TD and in my opinion it should be at late war BR which is 6.7 atm.

 

I support it nonetheless.

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37 minutes ago, Wilhuff_Tarkin_ said:

I'd rather treat that as a "yet another respawn" in vehicle that has 90mm gun.

And don't forget as a TD it only get 190sp Spawn Point Cost in RB. RoF migh also be superior to a M46.

Its a late war TD and in my opinion it should be at late war BR which is 6.7 atm.

 

I support it nonetheless.

 

Actually, no.

 

All 90 mm L/53 gun tracked vehicles have well-known sustained RoF at 8 RPM & maximum RoF at 15 RPM. That means Patton & Jackson have the same RoF.

 

I will recall PT-76 is a post-war light tank which has 5.3 BR slinging high velocity 76 mm HEAT-FS. "late war post war BR stuff" is out of context at the moment here.

 

Don't forget as a TD, it has a specialized rule that the vehicle must effectively carry its order as tank destroyer (which means, easily destroy tank) than medium / heavy tanks carrying the same gun at effective BR range.

 

Since the Patton is fast, capable of withstanding some shots, & able to do anything the Jackson can't do, the Jackson must reflect its tank destroying supremacy over the Patton by placing it at lower BR, thus justifying its role into major / primary tank destroyer instead of being merely minor / secondary spawn, disposable last resort spawn with inferior performance at the same BR.

 

I'm well aware about this.

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