ToGulagForYou

What Happened to German Teams?

66 posts in this topic

59 minutes ago, PartyPantsChtBan said:

How is the 105 a better OHK cannon when it has less filler? The amount of times Ive actually one hit a full crew KT through the turret is probably able to be counted on hands and toes, and Ive played over 200 games in the T29. You want to know how to counter the T29 or T34 if its hull down? If you have a long 88 and arent 1km away.... SHOOT IT IN THE TURRET! Every game I play in the T29, my turret gets penned. It doesnt always kill crew (thanks spall shield), but it guaranteed will wreck their breech. You cant angle the turret, because surprise surprise, rounded cheeks become flat. You cant expose your hull, because surprise surprise, 100mm of armor! Ive killed quite a few T29s in my Tiger 1 in a single shot by shooting their lower plate. You pen their hull, they die. Simple as that. The D10T goes through their turret, the long 88 goes through their turret, both easily go through its hull. I dont see the issue. Lower tier vehicles cant go through the strongest part of the T29, what a travesty! Its almost like, lower tier vehicles cant go through the strongest part of a KT at all, and have to load APCR to go through its weakest part (frontally anyway). God forbid someone loads APCR in their Panther or Tiger E. I laugh every time people talk about T29s turrets being impenetrable fortresses. I had a fight with a Ferdinand, who shot at my mantlet when my turret was slightly angled from his perspective. Bounced (obviously with my mantlet being angled), then I shot at his superstructure with APHE, which bounced, flat on. He then shot my mantlet and killed the crew on the side he shot (which wasnt the gunner side). I shot back at his hull, which bounced (odd how rounds with 220mm of pen bounce off 200mm flat armor isnt it) Then he shot my mantlet again (surprise surprise, it went through!) and killed the other side of my turret. Like seriously, if you have a long 88 you can literally shoot a T29 anywhere from the front at typical combat ranges and itll most likely go through.

  1. Its a better OHK cannon because it kills tanks in one shot most of the time while having better RoF, velocity and gun depression.
  2. If you have a long 88 that isn't a Tiger II H then you die before you can even aim at the turret. If you don't have a long 88... well then you're *****
  3. 100mm of armor sloped back that the 88 can hardly penetrate it. The tracks on the front prevent any pen anyway and even if you penetrate you only kill the crew in the front because the shell explodes right after it penetrates. The 122mm has better chances but its also stoped by the tracks most of the time.
  4. The IS-2s can't pen the turret because they only have ~200mm pen at close range and if you do all you're gonna destroy is the breech.
  5. The Ferdi has 200mm @20° which is about 220mm effective armor. Not sure if it can reliable bounce the APCBC.
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3 hours ago, PartyPantsChtBan said:

How is the 105 a better OHK cannon when it has less filler? The amount of times Ive actually one hit a full crew KT through the turret is probably able to be counted on hands and toes, and Ive played over 200 games in the T29. You want to know how to counter the T29 or T34 if its hull down? If you have a long 88 and arent 1km away.... SHOOT IT IN THE TURRET! Every game I play in the T29, my turret gets penned. It doesnt always kill crew (thanks spall shield), but it guaranteed will wreck their breech. You cant angle the turret, because surprise surprise, rounded cheeks become flat. You cant expose your hull, because surprise surprise, 100mm of armor! Ive killed quite a few T29s in my Tiger 1 in a single shot by shooting their lower plate. You pen their hull, they die. Simple as that. The D10T goes through their turret, the long 88 goes through their turret, both easily go through its hull. I dont see the issue. Lower tier vehicles cant go through the strongest part of the T29, what a travesty! Its almost like, lower tier vehicles cant go through the strongest part of a KT at all, and have to load APCR to go through its weakest part (frontally anyway). God forbid someone loads APCR in their Panther or Tiger E. I laugh every time people talk about T29s turrets being impenetrable fortresses. I had a fight with a Ferdinand, who shot at my mantlet when my turret was slightly angled from his perspective. Bounced (obviously with my mantlet being angled), then I shot at his superstructure with APHE, which bounced, flat on. He then shot my mantlet and killed the crew on the side he shot (which wasnt the gunner side). I shot back at his hull, which bounced (odd how rounds with 220mm of pen bounce off 200mm flat armor isnt it) Then he shot my mantlet again (surprise surprise, it went through!) and killed the other side of my turret. Like seriously, if you have a long 88 you can literally shoot a T29 anywhere from the front at typical combat ranges and itll most likely go through.

 

Sure you are gonna get killed in the T29 sometimes. We are mostly talking about averages and on average the T29 does a lot better than most tanks in the game. I have bounced off that turret many times with the 88 and the 75 as well. In battle when you have that 105 mm gun pointed at your face you often don't take the time to try and land the perfect shot and if you do take the time you will probably die. 

 

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26 minutes ago, *coder-2010 said:

 

Sure you are gonna get killed in the T29 sometimes. We are mostly talking about averages and on average the T29 does a lot better than most tanks in the game. I have bounced off that turret many times with the 88 and the 75 as well. In battle when you have that 105 mm gun pointed at your face you often don't take the time to try and land the perfect shot and if you do take the time you will probably die. 

 

You dont have to take the perfect shot. If hes looking at you, you shoot the mantlet, and either bounce, kill the breech, or kill the crew. Its crazy, Germans finally feel what other people have felt. Except they get to use their APHE to needle crew.

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2 hours ago, KillaKiwi said:
  1. Its a better OHK cannon because it kills tanks in one shot most of the time while having better RoF, velocity and gun depression.
  2. If you have a long 88 that isn't a Tiger II H then you die before you can even aim at the turret. If you don't have a long 88... well then you're *****
  3. 100mm of armor sloped back that the 88 can hardly penetrate it. The tracks on the front prevent any pen anyway and even if you penetrate you only kill the crew in the front because the shell explodes right after it penetrates. The 122mm has better chances but its also stoped by the tracks most of the time.
  4. The IS-2s can't pen the turret because they only have ~200mm pen at close range and if you do all you're gonna destroy is the breech.
  5. The Ferdi has 200mm @20° which is about 220mm effective armor. Not sure if it can reliable bounce the APCBC.

It doesnt kill the KT in one shot most of the time. You realize it only has like 30g more filler than the 90mm right?

Why are you running out in front of a T29 when it can easily shoot you? Is that the right thing to do against any tank that can penetrate you?
100mm of sloped back armor that unless im using my gun depression on non city maps where I can actually use my gun depression to go hull down, bounces next to nothing at 6.7.

Didnt say the IS2 could pen the turret, but it sure as hell can pen the hull. Right after buying the T29 during the Christmas sale I had a friend bring his IS2 into a CB with me to see what I could and couldnt bounce. All rounds including the stock shell went through the hull up to the ~500m we tested at.

The hull of the Ferdi is 2 100mm plates that are almost completely flat. Going by what everyone wants to say about the SP, spaced armor isnt as effective as a solid plate. (But Sh4g0h0d, layered armor is better :D)

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I think a good part of the problem is that the KT and alot of the German tanks of that era were built to fight at longer ranges, and it seems that a vast majority of the maps are "knife fight in a phone booth" maps that favor pretty close to all of the other nations.  I rarely see any large maps, and even more so any "open country" maps, and the ones that I do are closed so far down that its next to the same thing.  I am under the impression that RB and SB have been turned into another version of AB in regards to map size.

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30 minutes ago, StirnPanzer said:

I think a good part of the problem is that the KT and alot of the German tanks of that era were built to fight at longer ranges, and it seems that a vast majority of the maps are "knife fight in a phone booth" maps that favor pretty close to all of the other nations.  I rarely see any large maps, and even more so any "open country" maps, and the ones that I do are closed so far down that its next to the same thing.  I am under the impression that RB and SB have been turned into another version of AB in regards to map size.

the problem isnt the tank, isnt the map, CQC map are in disadvantage, but even in long range map, i still see half my team wipe at less than 5min

it is the players, i have no idea what magic the cap circle have, but it attract player no matter what they driving into it

4 out of 5 game i see people going like sheep one after one going into the cap, instead of spreading out forming a defensive line or covering each other

game will not instantly lose when we have less capture point, the ticket bleed seem to have some phycological issue that drive many people mad

it is not exclusively in German, it is in every nations, just matter of luck

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10 hours ago, PartyPantsChtBan said:

It doesnt kill the KT in one shot most of the time. You realize it only has like 30g more filler than the 90mm right?

Why are you running out in front of a T29 when it can easily shoot you? Is that the right thing to do against any tank that can penetrate you?
100mm of sloped back armor that unless im using my gun depression on non city maps where I can actually use my gun depression to go hull down, bounces next to nothing at 6.7.

Didnt say the IS2 could pen the turret, but it sure as hell can pen the hull. Right after buying the T29 during the Christmas sale I had a friend bring his IS2 into a CB with me to see what I could and couldnt bounce. All rounds including the stock shell went through the hull up to the ~500m we tested at.

The hull of the Ferdi is 2 100mm plates that are almost completely flat. Going by what everyone wants to say about the SP, spaced armor isnt as effective as a solid plate. (But Sh4g0h0d, layered armor is better :D)

Don't xxxx me. Are you seriously going to take anything I say and just assume I'm just some random pleb? OK so the 105 doesn't OHK a Tiger II H through the turret but it does so with 90% of the other tanks. The T29 has clearly the better gun than the IS-2.

"Why are you running out in front of a T29 when it can easily shoot you?"

Are you going to troll me me? How exactly does tank vs tank engagement work again? Right you either move to a position or you wait behind cover to spot enemys unaware of you and shoot them when they are not in cover. Are you seriously throwing my argument about a hulldown T29 out of the window by just saying: "Duh you shouldn't run in front a T29". OK thank, now I know. That solves all problems with tanks being hulld down by simply not letting them shoot at yourself. Thanks to you all tanks with gun depression are not wothless since no one will get shot from a tank in a hull down position again.

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Liz_F_Beurling said:

the problem isnt the tank, isnt the map, CQC map are in disadvantage, but even in long range map, i still see half my team wipe at less than 5min

it is the players, i have no idea what magic the cap circle have, but it attract player no matter what they driving into it

4 out of 5 game i see people going like sheep one after one going into the cap, instead of spreading out forming a defensive line or covering each other

game will not instantly lose when we have less capture point, the ticket bleed seem to have some phycological issue that drive many people mad

it is not exclusively in German, it is in every nations, just matter of luck

 

Problem is that one in ten games it actually works.

 

Normandy urban map last night, with three cap zones. Spawn in Churchill as I'm hoping for some FIBUA, only to find the Germans sat back, my team of Cromwells, Shermans and T-34s rush all three caps, steamroll the German team, and game ends within 5 minutes.

 

5 minutes being the time it takes a Churchill to advance through the town on the seafront side, advancing from cover to cover, only to find everything dead already. Then some git in a Ki-100 bombed me out. No shots fired, 53 RP. GG

 

The rest of the time I seem to get every bob and his mate rush cap in Achilles, and then just sit there. Hence if I'm flanking in Cromwell or similar, I frequently have no team left by the time I'm halfway into position. 

 

Thing that really staggers me is that they'll cap, but then not seek cover, or fall back to a better firing position to cover the cap. Just sit and die, or rush and die.

Edited by FliesLikeABrick
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28 minutes ago, FliesLikeABrick said:

 

Problem is that one in ten games it actually works.

 

Normandy urban map last night, with three cap zones. Spawn in Churchill as I'm hoping for some FIBUA, only to find the Germans sat back, my team of Cromwells, Shermans and T-34s rush all three caps, steamroll the German team, and game ends within 5 minutes.

 

5 minutes being the time it takes a Churchill to advance through the town on the seafront side, advancing from cover to cover, only to find everything dead already. Then some git in a Ki-100 bombed me out. No shots fired, 53 RP. GG

 

The rest of the time I seem to get every bob and his mate rush cap in Achilles, and then just sit there. Hence if I'm flanking in Cromwell or similar, I frequently have no team left by the time I'm halfway into position. 

 

Thing that really staggers me is that they'll cap, but then not seek cover, or fall back to a better firing position to cover the cap. Just sit and die, or rush and die.

Axis team, Ki-100 is japanese.  there is a big diference between German Team and an Axis team

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10 hours ago, Liz_F_Beurling said:

the problem isnt the tank, isnt the map, CQC map are in disadvantage, but even in long range map, i still see half my team wipe at less than 5min

it is the players, i have no idea what magic the cap circle have, but it attract player no matter what they driving into it

4 out of 5 game i see people going like sheep one after one going into the cap, instead of spreading out forming a defensive line or covering each other

game will not instantly lose when we have less capture point, the ticket bleed seem to have some phycological issue that drive many people mad

it is not exclusively in German, it is in every nations, just matter of luck

 

Maps are often a disadvantage to german teams but from my impression the biggest weak point are still the players. When I manage to get a team that is halfway competent german teams steamroll the opposition despite new tanks like T34 and IS6 on the other teams, but 90% of the time you get into teams with players that take Ferdinands into city maps then complain about russian bias when getting killed.

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22 minutes ago, AtomicPope said:

 

Maps are often a disadvantage to german teams but from my impression the biggest weak point are still the players. When I manage to get a team that is halfway competent german teams steamroll the opposition despite new tanks like T34 and IS6 on the other teams, but 90% of the time you get into teams with players that take Ferdinands into city maps then complain about russian bias when getting killed.

i understand CQC urban map are great for Russian tank type play style

but German tank itself isnt bad, we have APHE, we have decent gun depression, we have decent ROF, we have decent penetration, and decent armour

i agree it is more the players, there is a game in Poland, only me in Ferd and a tiger taking the hill side, the rest of the group just rush into the town, no matter it is Tiger II H or Panther, and they literally got slaughter by hellcat and M36

we are fighting US+UK, instead of setting up the ambush and trap waiting for the US fall into it, the Tiger on my side rush to the cap then exchange life

this kind of play style might suit US tank and benefit Russian tank, but instead of using our range superiority, the Tiger II in my team just going the CQC fight

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1 hour ago, SvenTheFree said:

Axis team, Ki-100 is japanese.  there is a big diference between German Team and an Axis team

Now you're just being pedantic.

 

Axis team sat back, we kerbstomped them, I got to do nothing all game because Churchill couldn't keep up. Ki-100 dropped bombs on me. Game ends.

 

point remains the same - the rush to cap works occasionally, and seems to convince those who do it that it's a valid tactic.

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5 hours ago, KillaKiwi said:

Don't xxxx me. Are you seriously going to take anything I say and just assume I'm just some random pleb? OK so the 105 doesn't OHK a Tiger II H through the turret but it does so with 90% of the other tanks. The T29 has clearly the better gun than the IS-2.

"Why are you running out in front of a T29 when it can easily shoot you?"

Are you going to troll me me? How exactly does tank vs tank engagement work again? Right you either move to a position or you wait behind cover to spot enemys unaware of you and shoot them when they are not in cover. Are you seriously throwing my argument about a hulldown T29 out of the window by just saying: "Duh you shouldn't run in front a T29". OK thank, now I know. That solves all problems with tanks being hulld down by simply not letting them shoot at yourself. Thanks to you all tanks with gun depression are not wothless since no one will get shot from a tank in a hull down position again.

90% of other tanks that arent giant boxes like the KT also get one shot by anything more than a Panthers 75, and even that can pretty easily one shot mose other mediums. Whats your point? So btw, you realize that a hull down position isnt just for tanks with good turret armor right? You go hull down in the Patton, you go hull down in the Bulldog, you go hull down in the Hellcat. German tanks usually have 8 degrees of gun depression, you can most certainly go hull down to minimize what is visible of your tank. Simple fact is, if youre in the sights of any tank in a tank that doesnt have armor, youre probably going to die. In KT v T29, the T29 HAS to aim for the KTs turret. Your APHE will not reliably go through the lower plate unless shooting up at it. In a fight where both the KT and the T29 are hull down, yes, the T29 has an advantage. In any fight where the T29s hull is exposed the KT has an advantage. Because even if you hit and pen the KTs turret (which is a laughably small target), you most likely arent going to one hit it. It does happen from time to time, but not with any regularity. That means the KT can still pull back and repair/replace crew. You pen a T29s hull, its probably going to die. Like I said, I can pretty easily one hit them with the short 88 through the lower plate. Hell, a Tiger H1 one hit me through the lower plate from a ridiculously oblique angle when I was trying to angle around a corner. But, even if the T29 is hull down, the long 88 and D10T can both still go through its turret at reasonable ranges. You take out the crew, great. You take out the breech, the T29s sitting there repairing, which allows you to advance and flank. Frankly if you rush out into the open without spotting first you deserve to get detonated. Thats how it works for generally everyone. Another thing, the T29s mantlet is cast, so its not actually 200mm.

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this just happen earlier

when over 80% of my team obsess with Cap A and rush into the city and got slaughter in less than 5 minute

it is not the tank that causing the issue, but the mind set of tank driver58d5a991a18f5_shot2017_03_2423_07_38.thu

 

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18 minutes ago, Liz_F_Beurling said:

this just happen earlier

when over 80% of my team obsess with Cap A and rush into the city and got slaughter in less than 5 minute

it is not the tank that causing the issue, but the mind set of tank driver58d5a991a18f5_shot2017_03_2423_07_38.thu

 

 

You know your in trouble when 15 of your teammates head to the west of the map and you are the only one going east lol. Happens to me a lot. 

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, *coder-2010 said:

 

You know your in trouble when 15 of your teammates head to the west of the map and you are the only one going east lol. Happens to me a lot. 

 

 

As mentioned, this has become extremely common on Tunisa, particularly with Domination and among the Germans. Your account sounds very similar to my own:

 

On 3/22/2017 at 7:56 PM, warrior412 said:

One of the biggest problems I've seen and Germany seems particularly affected by it is the tendency for the entire crowd to go one way and one way only.

 

On Tunisa, for instance, the entire team may head into the city to capture the A point--no problem in pursuing objectives...until you realize that Germans' best environment for fighting is not an urban setting and that deploying everyone to that secluded and closed off area leaves you vulnerable from just about every angle.

 

Edited by warrior412
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