*kRypt0nzium

Hull break mechanics

So I thought that this was a bug, but I've been assured that this is not a bug and is excatly the way the game is supposed to work. I thought I'd point out how the hull break mechanic actually works in the game, as no proper information on how it works has been officially given.

 

As of 1.65.1.175 (08.02.2017) a mechanic was added to the game called "hull break" that made lightly armored vehicles instantly blow up if the shell fired on them had enough explosive filler (eg. HE and HEAT) and had a calibre of 75mm or greater.

 

Reality:

All tanks on the list of tanks that have the hull break mechanic that also have parts of the tank with more than 25mm of effective thickness armor actually don't hull break. Shooting HE or HEAT to the part of the tank that has 25mm or more effective thickness of armor will cause the hull break mechanic to not work. E.g. ZSU-57-2 (soviet SPAA) has exactly 25mm of effective thickness hull armor. If you fire HEAT ammo from Pz IV tanks (G/J/F2) to the hull from the front, it will not hull break, but if you fire on the turret, it hull breaks as the effective thickness is lower despite the armor thickness being the same. It is still possible to cause hull break by hitting enough internal modules after penetration of the armor.

 

This is also the reason why sometimes firing HE or HEAT against lightly armored vehicles fails to work, because angling the vehicle makes the effective thickness of the armor more than 25mm which is the treshold for the hull break mechanic (at least for 75mm HE/HEAT).

 

Video proof (Sherman firing 75mm HE at Marder III H):

 

Firing 88mm HEAT from a Tiger against same Marder III H will not cause hull break if firing on the 50mm plate, but it will cause hull break when firing on the plate below it, even if the shell ricochets to the 50mm plate and then detonates the fuse.

 

This is apparently all working as intended. Your thoughts?

 

More information on the subject and the list of vehicles with hull break:

https://warthunder.com/en/news/4505-the-damage-model-has-been-refined-en/

FredericusRer (Posted )

Moved to proper section (Ground Forces Discussion)

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See how Gaijin defined “Hull Break” and how it works.

Quote

It means that the vehicle will be out of action when hit by shells with the capacity above the threshold.

Quote

For HE shells, impacts by 75-76mm HE shells to the hull or turret will be effective

 

So hitting any part of the hull or turret with HE or HEAT should be sufficient to cause hull break (kinetic energy/shockwave from the blast causing hull/welds to literally break), but Gaijin isn't looking at the shells, they're instead looking at the effective armor value. Hitting HEAT on a thicker plate of armor causes MORE of the energy from the shell to transfer to the tank, not less. If anything it should be working the other way round as it is now, because your shell has less chance of transferring the energy to the hull/turret when the armor is weaker.

Edited by *kRypt0nzium

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2 minutes ago, *kRypt0nzium said:

See how Gaijin defined “Hull Break” and how it works.

 

So hitting any part of the hull or turret with HE or HEAT should be sufficient to cause hull break (kinetic energy/shockwave from the blast causing hull/welds to literally break), but Gaijin isn't looking at the shells, they're instead looking at the effective armor value. Hitting HEAT on a thicker plate of armor causes MORE of the energy from the shell to transfer to the tank, not less. If anything it should be the other way round, because your shell has less chance of transferring the energy to the hull/turret when the armor is weaker.

 

I feel we need to perhaps make a comprehensive thread and send it to suggestions as a way to improve hull break. it would need loads of work however, do we have enough people willing to organize for such a thing?

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I don't think it's trying to simulate anything.

I think it was introduced to make killing lightly armored vehicles (Flakbus, ...) easier.

medal

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22 minutes ago, *kRypt0nzium said:

Hull break is already in the game, but the logic behind it seems wrong, which is why I filed a bug report instead of a suggestion.

 

How exactly do you guys think hull break works? As in, what is it trying to simulate from real life?

 

well AFAIK it is supposed to be modelling critical structural failure, and IMO it needs refining (as well as implementation for all armour levels, if anything we just need a total armour rework to have a DM).

 

6 minutes ago, Gorbalad said:

I don't think it's trying to simulate anything.

I think it was introduced to make killing lightly armored vehicles (Flakbus, ...) easier.

 

uhh

 

literally metal deforms and breaks to bits when hit by big fast moving heavy things. it is trying to model that if your vehicle is shot by a big old shell it is not fine just because it didn't hit operational modules or crew.

 

tanks are not even immune to this in reality.

 

post-217679-0-69003600-1370562427.jpg

 

all this panther needs to do is put the radio operator into the gunner position, A-OK perfect.

 

6894cf8cabce8706f60e3c6d9e2e4964.jpg

 

I presume the Driver and Radio operator of the sherman are knocked out but we can still keep driving after we fix the tracks and the engine right? no problemo neighborino.

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There are hull breaks in real life. Check.

There is a mechanic in game, called hull break. Check.

 

Do these two really have much in common?

Maybe, maybe not...

 

If you penetrate a tank's armor with your main gun, can you do follow-up shots (with the same gun, with a smaller gun) through that hole?

In real life? If you manage to hit that spot - of course.

In the game? No way!

 

 

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1 minute ago, Gorbalad said:

There are hull breaks in real life. Check.

There is a mechanic in game, called hull break. Check.

 

Do these two really have much in common?

Maybe, maybe not...

 

If you penetrate a tank's armor with your main gun, can you do follow-up shots (with the same gun, with a smaller gun) through that hole?

In real life? If you manage to hit that spot - of course.

In the game? No way!

 

 

 

so perhaps that needs work, evidently dynamic armour is not present ingame, but hullbreak is a good first step in that direction.

 

evidently it will be taxing to develop, so I don't hold it against them for not having it right away, I am happy to see a steady WIP so long as it has continual development.

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Hullbreak is wene you get hit in the hull if you shoot a tank in the turret you have have 0% of hulbreak for it is the turret not the hull as for somtimes you die from getting hit on your MG on top of the roof or the track or track wheel Eather only have hullbreak on milk trucks and not on tanks or this need to be reporgramed big time i have seen many hits on tanks whit this lame mec and even as i have killed som on a lame way thx to this hullbreak i think omg what a load of bull to have in a game i know alot of ppl cry about you can shoot in to the side of a tank and go out they other side whitout any dmg well that is your aim not the tank for if that is the cash you need to set hullbreak on all the Br10+ tanks for they have so high pen that if they fire on the side of a tank it go in and out they other side 

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