Type 60 Kai SPRG  

238 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like this variant of the Type 60 SPRG?

    • Yes
      211
    • No
      14
    • Wouldn't mind it.
      13
  2. 2. If added, what BR does the Type 60 Kai deserve?

    • 6.7
      143
    • 7.0
      47
    • 7.3
      20
    • 7.7
      11
    • I would prefer to not face it in battle.
      9
  3. 3. How well do you think this will perform against similar vehicles like the M50 Ontos and ELC EVEN 120?

    • Pretty decient
      143
    • Very well
      60
    • Definitely OP
      4
    • Underpowered
      16
    • None of the above
      15
  4. 4. Should the Type 60 Kai be introduced ingame before or after the duel-cannon SS1, SS2, SS3, & SS4?

    • Before
      23
    • After
      47
    • Somewhere in between
      20
    • I don't care when. Just add it!!!
      66


The Type 60 SS1-4 (often labeled Type 60-4 or Type 60B) was a reconfigured pre-production version of the Type 60 SPRG mounting four 106mm M40 recoilless rifles:

 

Short History

  • Reconfigured version of SS1 completed in 1957 mounting four 105mm recoilless rifles.
  • Trials proved it to be less accurate at range than the duel-cannon setup of prototype models SS2 and SS3.
  • Going forward in development, the duel-cannon mount using modified 106mm** M40 recoilless guns was chosen over the 105mm** M40 gun quadmount for the SS4.
  • Full-production of the Type 60 SPRG by Komatsu begins in 1960.

 

Photographs:

 

HCType60P1L.jpg HCType60P2L.jpg
HCType60P3L.jpg HCType60P4L.jpg
HCType60P5L.jpg HCType60P6L.jpg
HCType60P7L.jpg
Permanent exhibition vehicle at Higashi Choshi Residential area. (Displayed next to Public Hall)

 

ytwitmefdzpmiqdn%204.jpg

624.v1487779417.bin

84089_original
83964_original

CXIoxKFUkAAY7rc.jpg

IMG_4497.jpg

 

IMG_4496.jpg

 

IMG_4495.jpg

 

icon-ss1-higashichitose-001.jpg icon-ss1-higashichitose-002.jpg icon-ss1-higashichitose-003.jpg
icon-ss1-higashichitose-004.jpg icon-ss1-higashichitose-005.jpg icon-ss1-higashichitose-006.jpg
Type60+SPRG+prototype.jpg

b90.jpg

SS-1 (revised) which is preserved and exhibited in Higashi Choshi Resident Residence

 

Type+60+SPRG+Prototype+SS1+Kai.jpg

 

As listed in the suggested definitive Japanese tank tech tree:

Spoiler

15091905535452453.png

 

General Specifications:

 

Designation

Type

SS1-4

Tank destroyer

Country of origin Japan

 

Service history

Year Developed 1957
Used by Japan

 

Production history

Designer Komatsu
Designed 1955-1957
Manufacturer Komatsu/Japan Steel Works/Toyo Corp.
Produced March 1957
Number built multiple (judging by the photographs)

 

Specifications

Weight n/a
Length 4.11m
Width 2.20m
Height n/a
Crew 3
 
Caliber 105 millimeters (4.1 in)
Elevation n/a
Traverse n/a
Muzzle velocity n/a
Effective firing range n/a
Maximum firing range n/a
 
Armor n/a
Main
armament
4 x 105mm M40 recoilless rifles
Secondary
armament
2 x .50 caliber spotting rifle
Engine Model

Komatsu 6T110-1 four-stroke horizontally opposed six cylinder air-cooled diesel

 

Engine Output

Power/weight

 

105hp @ 2300rpm

n/a

 

Transmission manual (4 forward and 1 reverse gears)
Suspension torsion bar
Ground clearance n/a
Fuel capacity n/a
Operational
range
n/a

Speed

n/a

 

Sources:

 

I could only find some photos and general history/specs on it*, so any contributions whether it be history, specs, photos, videos, thoughts, or feedback will be much appreciated :salute:

 

 

*credits to Priest5000 and Mai_Waffentrager

**105mm and 106mm refers to the same M40 recoilless gun model; served to distinguish between developmental and production Type 60 model(s).

Edited by Results45
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  • Upvote 22
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Open for discussion. :salute:

 

However, if additional information + sources are not listed within the next 48 hours, the topic will be closed due to lack of information.

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Like I said in another post about this.....two recoilless rifles were not enough:D +1

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Too bad the closest British equivalent to this never reached completion. It only reached the full-scale wooden mockup stage.

Edited by Mercedes4321
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On 2/22/2017 at 5:26 PM, Mercedes4321 said:

Too bad the closest British equivalent to this never reached completion. It only reached the full-scale wooden mockup stage.

 

Well the 120mm "BAT" and "WOMBAT" thingys were mounted atop roofless Land Rovers, SPBAT carriers, and FV432 APCs (doubling ingame as an Swingfire SPATGM):

 

L6 Wombat 20mm recoilless rifle. Photo by Danny O'Neal

LandySeries2LWBwombatHaugh.jpg

File:Wombat-carrier-variant.jpg

File:WombatL6-on-Snow-Trac.jpg

2316219_orig.jpg

1a08690a.jpg

 

24351979124_103236841f_b.jpg

24864589392_1c7e8f1ede_b.jpg

https://www.tanks.net/anti-tank-weapons/united-kingdom-l6-wombat-120mm-recoilless.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV432#Variants

 

 

The M40 on the other hand, was used on everything from RadioFlyers to Jeeps to boats:

 

M274%20with%20106.jpg

NekafTLVM38A1C.jpg

 

bb282799071315b2ed7a740094d31e76.jpg

File:PAORCL106.jpg

 

 

Some info on the other 3 SPRGs (M50 Ontos, ELC 75-2, & ELC 120-4): https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/208380-m50-ontos/&page=3#comment-6787113

 

 

And don't forget this nifty little French TD-cycle: 

 

Vespa militare2.JPG
 

.

Edited by Results45
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For poll and option 2 need a choice " voted no on 1st option"

 

Yeah i'll vote nope for this, being a AB player the current type 60 is atrocious to play there, 10 ammos, no way to reload in most maps, especially those having a single objective in the middle of the map, constantly under arty and planes spam, disabled with a 4 seconds burst from any machine gun crossing your path, vehicle ammos not efficient enough vs opponents, no way to take out the vehicles you see at his BR in one shot like a tank destroyer should be able to do ( and often up-tiered and meeting even with better ones ), often needing half your ammos shot at something to get a kill if lucky,  all this ranked at 6.3 which is ridiculous for this thing in AB...

 

This thing is simply useless and close to unplayable in AB mode where you you will have your ten ammos and nothing more for the entire match as you can not reload it in most of the maps you get there, getting a variant with 4 guns won't change anything in his efficiency especially if it goes to a higher BR ... 

 

If those vehicles were correctly ranked in AB game mode around 3.7-4.3 BR at max ( and had been probably even lower directly on release if it had been a vehicle from one of the allied Nations ) plus getting a reload system similar to rocket tanks then yeah why not, for now it's one of the most useless things you could ever use in game so nope, getting one of those clown vehicles is enough already for me.

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7 hours ago, Results45 said:

 

Well the 120mm "BAT" and "WOMBAT" thingys were mounted atop roofless Land Rovers, SPBAT carriers, and FV432 APCs (doubling ingame as an Swingfire SPATGM):

 

L6 Wombat 20mm recoilless rifle. Photo by Danny O'Neal

LandySeries2LWBwombatHaugh.jpg

File:Wombat-carrier-variant.jpg

File:WombatL6-on-Snow-Trac.jpg

https://www.tanks.net/anti-tank-weapons/united-kingdom-l6-wombat-120mm-recoilless.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV432#Variants

 

 

The M40 on the other hand, was used on everything from RadioFlyers to Jeeps to boats:

 

M274%20with%20106.jpg

NekafTLVM38A1C.jpg

 

bb282799071315b2ed7a740094d31e76.jpg

File:PAORCL106.jpg

 

 

Some info on the other 3 SPRGs (M50 Ontos, ELC 75-2, & ELC 120-4): https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/208380-m50-ontos/&page=3#comment-6787113

 

 

And don't forget this nifty little French TD-cycle: 

 

Vespa militare2.JPG
 

.

I'm referring to the only British/Commonwealth multi-RCL Rifles armed vehicle, its my profile image. Its a tank with an unmanned turret that is armed with two WOMBATs that have been modified to each use a 7 round autoloader. The major drawback of the vehicle is that its crew compliment is only one man. It was the true FV4401 Contentious design, rather than that tech demo testbed seen on wikipedia.

Edited by Mercedes4321
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@Results45 I have added another option (I voted "No" in the first question) to the 2nd poll question, so as to give voters that option as well, in case they don't want the vehicle/ don't care about it.

The change was in accordance to the following rule regarding suggestion polls;

Quote

Please do NOT:
 

Create polls that don't include a "Negative" or "No" answer

When adding a poll to your suggestion, make sure to ALWAYS include a negative option to a question,so it's fair and unbiased. In case this was not followed,the poll creator will be notified and the poll will be modified to provide a fair voting system.

Source: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/337176-suggestion-section-rules-guidelines-and-tips-please-read-before-creating-a-new-suggestion/

 

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1 hour ago, CokeSpray said:

@Results45 I have added another option (I voted "No" in the first question) to the 2nd poll question, so as to give voters that option as well, in case they don't want the vehicle/ don't care about it.

The change was in accordance to the following rule regarding suggestion polls;

 

Source: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/337176-suggestion-section-rules-guidelines-and-tips-please-read-before-creating-a-new-suggestion/

 

 

Edited "no" vote option of Q2 to be less blunt and more constructive ;) :salute:

 

Does this mean that the thread won't be locked for lack of specific, reputable information?

Edited by Results45
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6 minutes ago, Results45 said:

Does this mean that the thread won't be locked for lack of specific, reputable information?

:yes_yes_yes:  Yes, it's now opened as per usual. 

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Can somebody track down these sources and see if they provide anything useful?

 

<参考文献>

・「パンツァー2003年11月号 昭和30年代初期に陸自が独自に開発した105mm自走無反動砲」 高橋昇 著
 アルゴノート社
・「パンツァー2016年9月号 陸自の豆タンク 60式自走106mm無反動砲B型」 前河原雄太 著  アルゴノート社
・「パンツァー2002年12月号 60式自走106mm無反動砲」 高松武彦 著  アルゴノート社
・「陸自車輌50年史」  アルゴノート社
・「グランドパワー2011年9月号 陸上自衛隊 60式自走無反動砲」 島内慶太/高松武彦 共著  ガリレオ出版
・「グランドパワー2016年5月号 60式自走106mm無反動砲B型」  ガリレオ出版
・「陸上自衛隊の装備車輌 Vol.1 ’60年代編」  ガリレオ出版
・「世界の軍用車輌(2) 装軌式自走砲:1946~2000」  デルタ出版
・「陸上自衛隊 車輌・装備ファイル」  デルタ出版
・「戦後日本の戦車開発史 特車から90式戦車へ」 林磐男 著  かや書房/光人社
・「自衛隊歴代最強兵器 BEST200」  成美堂出版
・「戦車名鑑 1946~2002 現用編」  コーエー
・「自衛隊装備名鑑 1954~2006」  コーエー
・「世界の装軌装甲車カタログ」  三修社
・「自衛隊装備年鑑」  朝雲新聞社

 

 

Translated:

Spoiler

<References > ·

 

"Panzer November 2003 105-mm self-propelled non-recoil gun developed independently by the landowner in the early 1950s" Takahashi Noboru 
 Argonaut Inc. 


· "Panzer September 2016 Garden own bean tank 60 formula self-propelled 106mm recoilless rifle B-type "before Author Yuta Kawahara Argonaut 


," Panzer, 2002 December 60 formula self-propelled 106mm recoilless cannon "Author Takehiko Takamatsu Argonaut 


," GSDF vehicle 50-year history of "Argonaut 


- "Grand Power 2011 September Issue Ground Self Defense Force 60-type self-propelled non-recoil cannon" Keita Shimauchi / Takehiko Takamatsu joint publication Galileo publication 


· "Grand Power 2016 May issue 60 type self-propelled 106 mm self-propelled gun type B type" Galileo publication 


· " Ground Self Defense Force Equipment Vehicle Vol. 1 '60's Edition' Galileo Press 


· 'World Military Vehicle (2) Movement Self-Propelling Gun: 1946 ~ 2000' Delta Publication 


· 'Ground Self Defense Force Vehicle · Equipment File' Delta Publication 


· ' Kaya after the war from Japan of tank development history Special Vehicle to Type 90 tanks "HayashiIwaootoko Author publishing / light person company 


," Self-Defense Forces successive strongest weapon BEST200 "Seibido publication 


-" tank Directory 1946-2002 working Edition "Koei 


," Self-Defense Forces equipment Directory 1954 ~ 2006 " 
KOE 


·" World's dress armored car catalog "Sanjunsha ·" Self Defense Force Equipment Yearbook "Morning CloudNewspaper Company
 

.

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Found a cute little recoilless gun tank native to Germany: the Leichter Panzerjager 105mm recoilless airborne tank destroyer (and yes, that is the German ZiS-30 there on the bottom).

 

Screenshot_20170312-031255.thumb.png.5dd

 

Source: Page 155-156 from Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two by Peter Chamberlain

 

Hope you like it! ;)

Edited by Results45
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IMHO in addition to the 300mm HEAT ammo currently ingame, the Type 60 could get M344A1 400mm HEAT-T (1500m @ 90 degrees):

Screenshot_20170324-090907_zpsyippokud.p

 

m40 recoilless rifle - Google Search

 

recoilless rifle rounds | 106 mm Recoiless Rifle Ammunition
 

http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/BB05 - M40.html

 

BR 7.3 maybe?

Edited by Results45
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1 hour ago, Vrox11Z said:

The Vespa would be fun to troll with in the game, although it may fall into the lines of infantry and not vehicles for the game rating...

 

Well if people thought the ASU-57 was trolly enough, the Vespa ought to do it (for the French) :yes_yes_yes:

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