Stona

Feedback for planned changes for Battle Ratings, February 2017

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Any plans on downtiering the KV-122 to 5.3? Sure it's gun is very good but overall the tank is worse than the IS-2. It has less armor and worse mobility than the IS-2 yet it's at the same br.

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These br changes are great

Panther II 6.7>7.0

T32 7.3>7.0

IS-2 44 6.7>6.3

Tiger E 6.0>5.7

M36 6.0>5.7

And more...

giphy.gif

But...

Please consider these changes:

 

>M4A3E2 (76) Jumbo 6.0>5.7 (RB) because in ab is 5.7, you can't possibly kill a jadtiger (7.0) with this tank frontally (No, not even apcr) this tank has no chance versus tiger II because it's a really big target, the hull can be easily pierced by short 88mm, long 75mm and 85mm (Used by 5.3-6.0 tanks) the gun is not sufficient for 6.0, 5.7 would be more fair because this tank can kill tiger (5.7) and get kill by them very easily

 

>T26E1-1 Super pershing 6.7>6.3 (RB and AB) The frontal Armour is not capable of stopping shells at this br EVEN when angled and this is a "HEAVY", extremely slow compared with a King Tiger (6.7-6.3) and the gun is awful with very low firerate and lower apcbc-he penetration than the IS-2 (5.7)

 

>M103 7.7>7.3 (RB and AB) In 7.7 Fights versus ATGMs with half the reload of this tank all the time, it's a big target for heatfs shells, reload is awful for 7.7, very similar to the conqueror (Now 7.3) it can be easlily killed by 6.3 tanks (like Tiger II p) trough the cheeks of the turret

 

>Tortoise 6.7>6.3 (RB and AB) The long 88mm from a lot of 6.3 tanks (Tiger 2 p, jagdpanzer and ferdinand) easy pierces this tank, the gun doesn't do a lot of damage and the penetration it's pretty bad compared with the 20 pounder with apds and it's reload it's slower, also have a copula weakspot that it's only 100mm+25mm that can get easily penetrated by the soviet 88mm, short 88mm and the long 75mm (from 5.3-5.7 tanks) and a penetration trough the copula from those guns normally kills at least 3 crewmembers

Edited by Anonimo_LLopi
Added br change reasons for M103 and Tortoise
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the american 76mm shermans should also be decreased, if the firefly can get to 4.7 so should the M4A2 and M4A1 with 76mm guns, the penetration of these guns is worse than that of the german 75mm as found on the panzer 4, while the shermans have more or less the same frontal protection as a panzer 4 and more or less the same mobility

 

my suggestion are for the RB mode

 

M4A1 76(w)  and M4A2 76(w) to 4.3, or at least the M4A2 76(w) to 4.7

M4A3E8 (US and Japanese) to 4.7 or at leaast 5.0

 

the american 76mm shermans should also be decreased, if the firefly can get to 4.7 so should the M4A2 and M4A1 with 76mm guns, the penetration of these guns is worse than that of the german 75mm as found on the panzer 4, while the shermans have more or less the same frontal protection as a panzer 4 and more or less the same mobility

 

M4A3E2 75(w) jumbo from 6.0 to 5.7 (or even 5.3) the thing has less penetration than a tiger, it does less damage post penetration than a german 88, the hull armor is arguably worse than that of an Is-2 or Tiger 1, the side armor is without a doubt worse than other heavy tanks (because of the 35mm at the bottom), the only thing it has going for itself is decent mobility and turret armor

 

 F8F-1 Bearcat from 6.0 to 5.3, just because the 4 machineguns make the plane basically useless at 6.0

 

AD-2 Skyraider to 5.3 (the wyvern is at 5.0 and it's a superior plane in every way except bombload, and even that is not substantially worse)

 

Keep the Panther II at 6.7, it was moved from 7.0 to 6.7 so i don't get why it should be put back there, keep it at 6.7 but increase the SP points required for it so it would be treated more like a heavy tank SP wise

 

Panther G,A,F to 5.7 , the tiger 1 has better armor, comparable mobility apart from top speed and an equally powerful gun, the panther's have weak gun mantlets and a terrible reverse speed, if the Tiger 1E and the IS-2 (which can penetrate the upper frontal hull of a panther no problem) deserve 5.7 so do the panthers

 

The T32 might be a little too good at 7.0, i wouldn't change it's BR, it used to be 7.0 and it was moved to 7.3 for being too powerful, bets not to change it back IMO

 

T-34-100 to 6.3, might have a great gun but it's stull just a T-34 with a long reload, with the Tiger 1E and Is-2 beign pushed down to 5.7 and with the ferdinand, tiger(p) and jagdpanther at 6.3 this doesn't belong to 6.7 anymore (not like it ever did IMO)

 

The Hetzer from 4.7 to 4.0, basically sligthly better frontal armor than a Stug 3G, but worse in every other way, the hetzer hasn't hetz'd in a long time sadly

 

Jagdpanzer 4 from 4.7 to 4.3 (same as panzer IV H), why would a turetless version of the panzer 4 armed with the same gun be at 4.7 while the panzer 4 is at 4.3

 

Jagdpanzer 4 L70 to 5.0, it's armor isn't good enough to fight 6.3 opponents and apart from it's gun it doesn't really have many great qualitites, average mobility, bad gun depression with heavy tanks being pushed down to 5.7 it would still face more or less the same opponents as it does now, but wouldn't face things like the T-44 and Is-2 mod44

 

Beaufighter mark X from 4.0 to 3.3

 

Beaufighter Mk. 21 from 5.0 to 3.7 , the beaufighters have just been forgotten by the matchmaking the mk 21 can carry 8 rp-3s but has more or less the same flight characteristics as the mk6 at 3.0, 5.0 BR would imply it's as good or better than the 190 A-5, spitfire mk XVI, Mustang etc. , it's just not

 

CAC Boomerang 1&2 to 3.0 or 2.7, apparently it's as good as an me109 E-3/4 and the A6M2 Zero...it's not

 

Firebrand to 4.3 , it's just useless atm 

 

Ki-61 hei to 4.7 or 4.3

 

Ki-61 II to 4.7 or 4.3

 

A6M5 to 4.0

 

A6M5 ko to 4.3

 

A6M5 otsu to 4.3 , the zeroes don't need to be high BR gap fillers anymore with all the other more capable planes that have been added to japanese late rank 3 and rank 4, no zero should have a BR higher than 4.3

 

He-162 to 6.3 it just do very well against 7.0 planes, the yak15 early is being dropped down to 6.3 this could be too IMO

 

T26E1-1 Super Pershing to 6.3, just because it's slow, and the frontal armor can still be penetrated by 122mm and german 88mm guns without much problem

 

This is what i can think of off the top of my head

 

I also hope that with these BR reductions/increases the RP and repairs and module costs would be adjusted for these vehicles aswell

(for instance the Ki 84 ko is going to 5.3, yet it costs 40k to repair for some reason, hope with the BR increase the repair cost goes down to a reasonable sub 10k number like with other nation's planes and the panther F for example costs 11k RP to research tier 1modules despite it just being a 6.0 - and hopefully a 5.7 soon ;) - vehicle)

 

Edited by Jinxz
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@Senio

BR-417D will be removed because of teh BR decrease. It wont need them to fight heavily protected opponents anymore. That's why it was introduced in the first place

Removing the D shell wasn't really necessary. IS-2 1944 will still face the same opponent, namely KT H, 99% of the time.

 

Also, the changes are good, but Gaijin is slowly working itself into ultra compression. Extending the BR range is the final solution, not lowering almost everything.

Edited by LordMustang
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7 minutes ago, __Syndrome__ said:

Even though i hoped for a 9.0 tank BR introduction, i must admit that this is the BEST br update in years.

 

 

 

 

P.S.

 

Im a bit suspicious about the T-34-85 going to 5.7 having the same br as a panther D and having to fight Tiger 2Hs.

 

Again i must admit, great br update. Looking forward to seeing it go live.

 

I suspect the matchmaking will end up creating a 4.7 to 5.7 bracket.

 

Many Tigger2 drivers will be at 7.0, using the Panther2 in thier line up.

 

Sure, you will see a few 6.7 games but mostly I suspect Tigger2's will be mostly in 7.0 games

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Gaijin, these changes look fantastic but, please, can you give some consideration to bringing the M26 down to 6.0 (Mobility worse than T-44, Firepower and armor about equal to Tiger I) the Sherman Jumbo 76 down to 5.7 (pretty much equal to a Tiger I in every way Mobility/Armor/Firepower), and the Super Pershing down to 6.3 ( Less mobility/armor than Tiger IIp, About equal in firepower). I know this would probably leave a gap in America at 6.7 but merit, not numbers should determine a tanks position.

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By and large very nice changes, particularly the M36 - been hoping for a return to its old BR for a long time.

 

The IS-2 change is potentially good, but it will make the Tiger II even more dominant in 6.7 games. Russia will need something to fill the void left by the removal of the 471D. I saw someone suggest an IS-2M with that shell at 6.7 and that might be a good idea.

 

On the second 34/85 being 5.7, people are immediately going to be making comparisons with the Panther D. It's true that the Panther may be a little easier to use (unless you're on a CQC map, which most are at the moment). I think if the M36 is good enough for 5.7, so is the 34/85. The M36 trades a slightly better gun than the T-34/85 for worse stats in virtually every other area. It's going to be tough for /85 drivers in 6.7 games, but then it is for pretty much every Allied tank at 5.7 BR.

 

 

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But how am I supposed to go sealclub in my spits now?

 

Also Rip panther II and kugeblitz talismans, my days of sealclubbing with you are over. I'll have to put in a non-zero amount of effort to succeed now :(

 

On the other hand! IS2 AT 5.7 BABYYYYYYYY T34-85+IS2+KV122+PT76 SUPER STRONK LINUP. RUSSIA STRONK. IT-1 HERE I COME :D 

 

But M-18 really shouldn't be 5.3. In what world is that vs a tiger II or a IS-2 '44 fair? Only reason my BR 5 US lineup will be ok is because T-20 stronk

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I am mainly an Arcade player, so the following lines will only refer to the BR changes for Arcade mode. ;)

 

Changes that I appreciate and reason(s) why I appreciate it ...

 

+ increasing the BR for the T-34-85s to 5.3/5.7 : The T-34-85 is a very good tank with great mobility, a powerful gun and nice armor with a great chance of bouncing enemies shells, so it will not have much trouble to perform good at higher BRs (you can penetrate Panthers, M26, Tiger 2 P, IS-2 frontally) and when you face tanks like Tiger 2 H, Ferdinand or Carnearvon just use the great mobility of the T-34 tanks and flank them.

+ reducing BR for the IS-2s (and removing the BR471 D-Shell) : Personally I have no problem with those tanks at their current BR, but they have weak front turret armor (like Tiger 2 P), so reducing its BR seems fair. Maybe Gaijjin can add a IS-2M with some new shells (or with BR471 D) in future which can be a BR 6.7 tank? ... I would sugguest to reduce KV-122s BR also to 5.7 (why should it be higher than the IS-2?) ;)

+ reducing BR for the Tiger E and Panzerbefehlswagen Tiger P (same goes for M36) : IMO this is a good change - it was not very funny to fight a whole team of Tiger 2 H while you are driving one of those tanks, the short 88mm gun is a nice weapon but fighting Tiger 2 Hs, Ferdinands, T32 or other heavies with it was horrible ... and flanking with a 60 tonnes tank ... yeah it can work, but I would prefer other tanks (T-34, T-44, panthers, ...) for this tactic ...

 

Changes that I don't appreciate and reason(s) why I don't appreciate it (or some sugguestions)...

- M46 still a T5 tank with 7.0 (AB) : ... I still don't get it ... it has HEAT with high values of penetration but the grind is absolutely horrible (T5 tanks need so much RP for new modules) and it has no real advantage over most tanks at lower BR, i.e. Tiger 2 H, Ferdinand, Pershings with long gun ... its armor, gun and mobility is just mediocre ... I would sugguest to reduce its BR and put it in T4 as a T4 BR 6.7 tank, there are already to many T5 tanks in this US tank line (M46, M47, M48, M60, M60A1)

 

- the BR compression at late T4/T5 ... in the last days I started to play the IS-3 and T-54-47 again (not fully upgraded) and either I am allowed to club 6.3 tanks or I will get oneshotted by HEAT-FS or rockets in 8.0/8.3 matches. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to fight 6.0 or 6.3 tanks with those tanks all the day, but to introduce a BR of 9.0 and decompress the late T4/T5 tanks would be a nice change ... so Tiger I (5.7) does not have to fight Tiger 2 H (6.7) anymore but also Tiger 2 H (6.7/7.0) and other heavies does not have to fight HEAT-FS tanks (7.7/8.0) anymore ... tanks which rely on heavy armor are almost useless against those tanks which can easily oneshot you anywhere they want ... (of course most tanks even at T5 have weakspots and you can also oneshot them by aiming at those spots) ... I don't know, it feels kinda strange to fight a T-54-51 in my T-34-100 :016:

 

 

 

 

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 why remove the 471D? at 6.3 its still going to meet king tigers a lot and to be honest that shell does aid it in being able to deal with meeting king tigers 90% of the time...

Stona (Posted )

Please re-read previous answers for that question.

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Why the brits Challenger and Charioteer goes not down in BR, both are 5.7 and 6.0 in AB

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I love that the coelian and kugel finally changed positions but with that being said I also believe the research for the coelian should be set for a tier 4 grind as it isn't nearly as efficient as the kugel at harvesting RP due to the ammo types.

 

Thanks for the reply.

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Why are the Kugel and Coelian being switched? 

Smin1080p (Posted )

Kugelblitz is a much more effective and useful SPAAG and considerably more dangerous than the Coelian. Basing the rank on the chasis was meaningless as the Kugel is clearly superior.
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I agree that the Super Pershing should be bumped down to 6.3 at the very least (honestly I think it could functions best at 6.0 as an alternative to the light variant of itself). Its gun is barely equal to the long 88 but has a much longer reload. Its far slower than the KTs it fights, and doesnt even get the benefit of armor on its side. At BEST the spaced armor might maybe eat a round from long distance, but other than that its useless

 

People have been saying that this will leave a hole at 6.7 and thats true, but honestly 6.7 should be left to heavy tanks that are good such as the KT that should be uptiering to 7.0 all the time.

 

One last request, would you guys consider bumping the IS3 down to 7.0 as well. 7.3 is a bit to high for a tank better suited to fighting KTs

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Mustang Mk.IA (Britain) from 3.7 to 4.0 I fully agree with this change since this is a plane that literally disrupts AB gameplay in the 3.7 BR range (I've clubbed a lot with this beaty). Are there any plans to increase the BR of the American equivelent P-51 (the 3.7 BR one)?

Senio (Posted )

good point.same as above mentioned I-16 issue. We'll look into it
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2 minutes ago, beef_bigshot said:

One last request, would you guys consider bumping the IS3 down to 7.0 as well. 7.3 is a bit to high for a tank better suited to fighting KTs

This, together with a downtier of the Maus and the IS-4 to 7.3, would definetly make tier 5 heavies more useful. I support it :)

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i still remember t-34-85 zis at 5.7 in AB...and it was disaster. now we have t-29,really strong KT(H). so why move tanks, which cant penetrate it  , to bad BR? if it KT+t-29(no panter II) were moved to 7.0, it will be ok- but now....

and why jumbo at 5.3? 5.7 is ok, but 5.3 when same tansk was moving up....

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Lower M4A3E2 76(W) from 6.0--->5.7

  • Armour easily pierced by KwK36 and D5T. 
  • Gun is moderate to weak and will require multiple shots to take out a Tiger 1.
  • Mediocre mobility.
  • All Tiger 1 variants(H1,E,P,No6) are at 5.7 and have much better gun and armor than the 76 Jumbo,
  • T-34-85/T-34-85E are at 5.7 with a much powerful gun(compared to the 76mm M1) and better mobility.
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If the Mustang MkI is getting a higher br, why it's american counterpart isn't getting one too?

joszef (Posted )

Answer is few posts above

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This is really good step towards balance, @Stona Maybe for the first time in years, i'd like to congratulate you guys!

 

Just here is few missed points i'd like to say;

King Tiger H, should be 7.0, along with panther 2, Please, Please consider to change it.

M26, Should be 6.0-5.7, it's rival for tiger 1s, has mediocre armour and mobility.

t-92, should be 6.3, it's rivals have 300mm pen heatfs rounds, this only has 200mm, also it has very bad starting ammo, making everything frustating.

Spitfire mk24, please rethink about that, 6.7 is not logical.

Thanks again!.

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