Feedback for planned changes for Battle Ratings, February 2017

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Pilots and Tankers!
Below are the planned changes to vehicle Battle Ratings for both Aviation and Ground Forces:




Other planned changes:

  • IS-2 mod. 1944 -  BR-471D round will be removed

  • IS-2 mod. 1944 “Revenge”- BR-471D round will be removed

  • ISU-152: place in the research tree will be changed - it will be situated right after SU-152, before ISU-122 modifications

  • Kugelblitz and Coelian will switch their places in the research tree.
  • Changes for Simulator Battles are planned, but we cannot publish them yet.


Please be sure to leave your thoughts and feedback in this thread!
The War Thunder Team

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4 minutes ago, Fog_of_War said:

1) And why there is nothing for SB?

2) Pe-8 and Wyvern can sealclub one more year?


1) Please re-read article

2) Please post something more than random sentence without any arguments. Thanks.

  • Upvote 22

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20 minutes ago, Stona said:

VK 4501 P: 5.7 --> 5.3 | 5.7 --> 5.3


Why is the VK 4501 P being decreased to BR 5.3? It works very well at 5.7, and is better than the Tiger H1 if played right.


shot 2017.02.10 10.36.13.jpg


That gives the VK 4501 P a higher Victories/Battles ratio and much higher Targets Destroyed/Deaths ratio while taking into account number of battles.

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After having read through all of the planned changes, it's hard to find something to disagree on. Great work! :good:

  • Upvote 26

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actually the first BR change where I hardly find any bad decision. Even the is-2 downtier is well thought with the removal of the 471D.


  • sherman firely got some love
  • panther 2 uptier will silence the haters
  • T-34 85 now has the same BR as a Tiger 1
  • Tiger 1 E finally is gone from this unthankful 6.0 just because of its useless APCR
  • super hellcat away from 6.3 will satisfy US players
  • fw190 D series are now back in business since their elevators don't work and just were food for all griffon spitfires
  • raketenjagdpanzer 2 HOT brought to the same level as the it-1

and some more....


Apart from the unneccessary nerf to APDS against thicker sloped armor, gaijin is doing some decent work now

  • Upvote 23

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Since when we have a P-51B? Is it a typo?

Stona (Posted )

Super Sicret Freedom Fighter revealed!!! :))) Will be fixed soon, thx

Senio (Posted )

It's Mustang Mk.IA (Britain). Will fix it, thanks
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noooo please don't remove the  br-471d  from the is-2

Smin1080p (Posted )

The ammunition belonged to the IS-2M and without it, it can have a lower BR.
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Some great changes there (T-34 85 goes up in BR at last and you're finally cutting some slack to British tanks like the Firefly and the Avenger), but there's a few I disagree with. Perhaps the worst is the 8,8cm Flak 37 Selbstfahrlafette auf 18 ton Zugkraftwagen (a.k.a. Flak truck) going up two notches. The gun is powerful even in 4.3 BR matches, but the truck is as fragile as ever. Now it will have to face heavies like the IS-1 that it will have trouble penetrating.



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Update 2017
Some of changes are outdated, already added

Some time ago I have created polls related with BRs for each country, can you check them and include some of the results?
I think that some proposed changes are good.

But ASU-85 at 6.3 with 300mm pen ? M56 Scorpion at 6.7 ? in AB ? this is wrong... (I mean that any HEAT-FS 300mm tank or TD should not be placed below 6.7)
and why IS-1 is placed at 5.3 in AB? it is ok at 5.7 especially when M4A3 76 is not moved to 5.0, somehow I don't see how these tanks are equal

In topic below urls to polls topics:

Polls results: (tanks):


T-34 1942 AB 3.7 >> 4.0

I don't know how it perform in other game modes but in AB this tank can "deliver"

T-34-85(D-5T) ALL 5.0 >> 5.3
4.0 tanks are "free frags" for this one

T-34-85 & T-34-85E 5.3 >> 5.7 ?
After 1.63 and changes in dmg model I'm 50/50 with this one, maybe we can try this in AB ? this is really good tank compared to anything other at 5.3

SU-100-Y ALL 5.3 >> 5.7
This one can one shot anything from 4.7 to 6.7 and it is hard to kill in AB frontally due to 6 crew members

KV-122 (AB or ALL) 6.0 >> 5.7

ISU-152 ALL 6.0 >> 5.7
This one is free frag now ;)

ZSU-37 4.7 >> 5.0
(Poll was against this change but it is unfair that GB and USA AAA with worse pen have 5.0 and this one have 4.7 with 102mm penetration)


M4A2 ALL 4.3 >> 4.0
4.3 is overkill for this tank.

M4A1 (76) ALL 5.0 >> 4.7
M4A3 (76) ALL 5.3 >> 5.0, move it from Tier IV to Tier III with slightly better SL income.
I'm not sure that M4A1 change is needed after 1.63 but M4A3 76 is not 5.3 it is not even close to "85"

T20 ALL 5.0 >> 4.7
I don't think it is needed after 1.63 but this in my opinion

T25 ALL 6.0 >> 5.7

M36 AB 6.3 >> 5.7 !! 6.0 it is still overkill for M36 it will be still useless.


Super Hellcat AB 6.3 >> 6.0
Everybody can see him in AB reload and armor is worse than T25 so it is not 6.3 at least not in AB

M4A3E2 ALL 5.3 >> 5.0
This tank is similar to Churchil at 4.7, and currently we have enough thing that can kill him between 5.0 - 6.0

M4A3E2 (76) RB/SB 6.0 >> 5.7
Do I have to even comment this one ? ;)

T32 ALL 7.3 >> 7.0

M47 AB/SB 7.7 >> 7.3
The worst stock syndrome in the game, please fix it

M46 and M46 "Tiger" AB 7.0 >> 6.7
I dont know why this one is even at 7.0 in AB is it better than Tiger II H or T29 ??
I understand 7.0 when this bug report will be solved (penetration and shell type bug) also this could also help with ST-A1 and ST-A2



but now please change br,

I have also created suggestion about M46 Tier


Currently US in SQB battles are pay to play, you want M46? you can have only premium, please change M46 tier to make US more competitive in SQB,
it is not big change because people already fight with this one in SQB. It is unfair for US players and it have to be changed.


Gepard (FLAK 38) ALL 2.0 >> 2.3
Probably scared off from WT more newbees than anything else, it is ultimate killer of 1.0 tanks

8.8cm FLAK 37 ALL 3.7 >> 4.0
With this dmg model it is only good thing to do, I have 4.95 k/d ratio on this thing it is monster and it can survive hit from KV-2 ;)

Pz.IV J AB 4.3 >> 4.0

Pz.IV G RB 4.0 >> 3.7

Pz.IV H AB 4.7 >> 4.3

Sd.Kfz. 62 ALL 3.0 >> 3.3

Wirbelwind ALL 3.7 >> 4.0
Best German TD... ;)

Dicker Max ALL >> 4.7

Sturer Emil AB 6.3 >> 6.0
You killed this one with last uptier, it is not better in AB, no armor, no mobility and constant victim of "kamikaze" attacks in AB.

Ferdinand RB 6.7 >> 6.3
It is from poll, in AB this one is deadly at 6.7.

(two separate polls)
Tiger E AB/RB 6.0 >> 5.7
Tiger E SB 6.0 >> 5.7

It used to be 6.0 but it is not anymore, too many things can one shot it now, the only fair thing to do is to lower br to 5.7 in all game modes.

Panther F (SB) 6.7 >> 6.3 or 6.0


Firefly ALL 5.0 and please add APDS shell because now poor firefly is useless, same thing should be done with Avenger, they both are "free frags" right now.

Charioteer ALL 6.0 >> 5.7
My friends called this one "first death tank"

FV 4202 APDS needed, of course adjust BR after this change.

Conqueror AB 7.7 >> 7.3
Looking at thunderskil it is probably the worst Tier V tank now.

Black Prince ALL 6.0 >> 5.7

Economy: please lower the apds cost, we don't use it because we like it, we use apds because we have to.
Example T-34-85 VS Comet I, in AB 70 SL VS 300 SL per round, why ? is Comet really better thank 85 ?

Planes AB:

I have created another poll, unfortunately not to many people vote, I hope they will now.

F7F-1 and F7F-3 AB >> 6.3
Both F7F-x Tigercats: They are good planes but I play them only in ab SQB and they have problems with head on against Fw190s and they are the only propeller planes that have honor of 6.7, other nations have jets at 6.3 so the speed and turning abilities of both models don't match 6.7 br. And really is Tigercat better than Bearcat ? ;)


B-17E and B17E/L >> 5.0

Compared to dorniers at 5.3 they are useless, they lost fuel injection, top speed is lower, they can't dive with 750km/h due to size (because in AB we don't care about critical speed) and bomb load is smaller.
I think they should be moved to 5.0

BTD-1 >> 4.0
It is just painful... energy loss is huge 20mm guns are somehow weak and bombload is small

SB2C-4 >> 3.7
if you have uptier to 5.0 it is miracle to reach any target in this plane and really even at lower br 109s are always waiting for them, bombload: nothing special so 3.7 is correct for SB2C-4.

US Bf 109 F-4 >> 3.7
Well it is just 109 f-4 probably best plane at 3.7 and speed, climb rate and small turnfight ability is what makes this plane great in AB, so I don't think that it should be placed at 3.3 because performance is identical
(I don't use extra guns at german version and they are still great )
Also USSR Thunderbolt should have same BR like US version because it can take bombs.


Edited by ganJ
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7 minutes ago, julhocesar2015 said:


Why is it stripped for the BR-471D ammunition of is2mod44?

it never used it historically, that shell was developed by the time of the IS-2M

  • Upvote 15

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42 minutes ago, Stona said:
  • IS-2 mod. 1944 -  BR-471D round will be removed

  • IS-2 mod. 1944 “Revenge”- BR-471D round will be removed

Although i don't have a problem killing stuff with the stock shell i think this is great combined with the 6.3 Br


42 minutes ago, Stona said:

Kugelblitz and Coelian will switch their places in the research tree.

Nice change, makes the change from Ostwind to 6.7 AA better

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Only thing missing imo is the Jumbo 76 being bumped to 5.7, but it isn't too big a deal. Really glad to see the US tank changes and I hope they'll stick for a while. I might actually use the Conqueror now even though the APDS round is god awful. 


Also glad to see the Dora's escaping the jet MM. 

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I-16 Type 28 got 0,3 reduction in RB... 


Premium I-16 Type 27 (essentially the same plane) not mentioned... Intentional or?


Edit: Thank you for including the Type 27 :3  :salute:

Edited by BlitzkriegWulf
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6 minutes ago, *seadogpirate said:

noooo please don't remove the  br-471d  from the is-2


Ok, looks like you are new here :)

Please do not remove the br-471d from the IS-2 BECAUSE (and here is the place where you say to us why it should stay in that vehicle after BR changes) :)

  • Upvote 19

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T32 is 7.0, Jpz 4-5 is 7.3, T-34-85 is 5.7, Type 61 and STA series got a downtier?


looks like progress.


M42 still 6.7 tho, practically identical to the M19, 1.7 BR higher. feel like this is an oversight from when USA did not have the M163 VADS.

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I'm surprised that the F7F-1/3 hasn't been moved down to 5.7 considering how much they get stomped by 5.7+ British props, German 7.0 jets, and R2Y2s. Any insight on this matter?

Honestly, the F7F (both variants) should both be at 5.7. They're balanced at 6.0 in respect to other props they face (which is what, nothing too scary other than Tempests and Mk24s) but the plane's a xxxx joke compared to 262s, 229s, and R2Y2s, all of which are vastly superior to it in every way but stall speed control and outright climbrate (which doesn't even matter for the R2Y2 because reasons).

The F7F-1/3 has no significant advantage over the Tempests or Sea Fury in the British line, yet are higher in BR. It's faster with WEP and is able to retain energy better, but the climb rate is only good up until 5K after which it becomes mediocre, the dive speed isn't great, the controls are acceptable for a plane of its size, and the firepower is equivalent to British fighters' (the 4 extra 50cals aren't going to do anything, and nose/root mounted guns vs wing-mounted is personal preference and something that can be worked around). They are extremely comparable to each other, but the F7F suffers from the heavy-fighter penalty in the game by being unmaneuverable compared to single-engined fighters. A well flown Tempest Mk.V can easily catch a F7F and outfly it, and to suggest that the Spitfire Mk.22 and F7F are on the same level is downright silly.


When you have something like the Wyvern, which is an EXTREMELY capable fighter, running around at 5.0 with a massive speed advantage over its enemies, I don't see why the F7F should have to face jets which can out-maneuver it, outspeed it, and render any advantages it has useless. I'm an accomplished pilot, and I often struggle to out-fly 229s and 262s who know what they're doing, which isn't as rare as some might think. Sure, I can hold a good K/D in the F7F, but stats aren't indicative of balance, which leads to a whole new can of worms...

When you have other heavy fighters in-game like the F-82 (which is faster than the F7F) that get an airspawn and still climb amazingly well and the Wyvern at 5.0 (which is an extremely capable fighter if you play it right), the F7F really ought to be downtiered. It'll still see 5.7 and 6.0 aircraft, but it won't see constant streams of 262s and 229s which render it useless - that's the real issue here.

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Br up for T-34-85??


What a good snail!

Edited by Thomyandgun_Be
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will my kugelblitz receive a higher RP modifier after becoming tier 5 ? i have talisman on it too. i really hope ,otherwise it will be unfair. i dont mind the change. please answer.


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