Drink_Your_Blood

Um... Could we get rid of the respawn point system?

45 posts in this topic

On 1/12/2017 at 1:21 PM, SKuDD3r said:

The spawn system should be in all game-modes IMO.  It forces players to not just play the biggest/baddest tank at the start if you want the ability to come back in another tank if you had a poor start.  If you pick the best tank... and die... then you get punished with only being able to spawn in the SPAA.  

 

Its a system of balances.... so you choose the heavy hitter and fail... then you are punished.

 

Realistic tanks is my favorite game-mode.

 

I agree with this 100% as it is a superior system to the other modes; however,   they need to document it, instruct the player base on its use, use it in events, and refine it. 

 

Currently most players in the game don't understand it nor take advantage of its capabilities; in addition, it hasn't been touched since its beta event with feedback ignored.  

 

I sometimes wonder if someone at Gaijin snuck it in as it has been the red-headed step child of War Thunder since its introduction.

Edited by Sidiros
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Sidiros said:

 

I agree with this 100% as it is a superior system to the other modes; however,   they need to document it, instruct the player base on its use, use it in events, and refine it. 

 

Currently most players in the game don't understand it nor take advantage of its capabilities; in addition, it hasn't been touched since its beta event with feedback ignored.  

 

I sometimes wonder if someone at Gaijin snuck it in as it has been the red-headed step child of War Thunder since its introduction.

Well the SP system was the reject system from Tank Sim back in the day.

 

Personally the spawn system of events was near-perfect, but you should not be able to take out a plane at match start with ground/armored target belts or ordinance.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The few changes I would like to see:

  1. Reduction in SP cost of tanks to promote people to play more tanks (it is after all a tank game mode, flying should be a luxury)
  2. Bigger disparity in point cost of light-medium-td-heavy.
  3. More spawn point locations on maps, spawning on points closer to the objectives cost more SP
  4. Increase in SP for objectives and other actions, currently players get knocked out of the game way to fast which makes for lopsided games.
  5. Reduce SP awarded for taking hits... I've seen a heavy tank being hit by 3-4 tanks, and 2 planes and rack up 2000 points.
  6. And the thing I want to have changed the most about realistic tanks.... If the enemy team has 0 tanks left, and only players in planes... end the game.  It is a tank game mode... don't make 18 players sit on a one sided game for 5-10 more minutes while there are a couple airplanes in the sky.  It should treat airplanes as a non vehicle... to reinforce people to pick tanks over planes to prolong the game. (It would also help with queue times by getting people out of games when the game is already decided)
Edited by SKuDD3r
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/01/2017 at 4:49 AM, fruchtgummikeks said:

this needs to be rebuild fro mthe ground

 

1 spawn for random battles (you play one round with a very limited set of "tickets" and a time limit of max. 30mins, so it´s like a round of team deathmatch (like counter strike, world of hitpoints, sorld of swimming hitpoints or whatever "new game" fits into that category, im not really up to date o.O)

 

 

on the other side you have the longer battles which way more time and "tickets", typically with unlimited respawns for everyone and often combined with some kind of cap a zone/flag/point to decrese the enemy tickets (like we have here, not not as fast) with sometimes an ability to win when capping all points (because these points acts like respawns, and are not always all accessable or cappable). whatever, the best example of this would be battlefield 1942 (original still best^^) or the other battlefields, cod? and probably these star wars battlefronts (not that familiar with the super new stuff, omg i´m old^^), this fits actually the "enduring confrontation" mode available in the event tab (just just get a ground forces one)

 

 

so there is no need for a system that just makes the winning team even stronger (like the arcade planes), when discussing about battle ratings, most people are the opinion vehicles should be rated about their performance, not about how players perform with them, so why support a spawn point system that´s totally different to that?

spawns should be contributet equal to everyone, without their "performance" in that game having any influence on it.

 

but these small, fast, max. 30min battles would probably get weird when everyone gets unlimited respawns (preferably without getting a crew locket after death like the last event), so it should probybly limited. Arcade has a 3 spawn limit, probably because if not just rushing into the enemy you have a hard time to spend 3 spawns in these (even shorter) battles, thats where we get to 1 spawn is enough and even if you give them 2 or 3, no one that starts as tank should be able to respawn as a plane!

 

so a limit for "from the start" planes to like 1 per 3 or 4 tanks and put them on a airfield where they need to take off first can´t be worse than it´s now (actually it´s possible to get a plane faster to the tank map with the respawn points and airstart than with starting with one at the beginning, take off and fly your 5-10km to the "map") - of course it depends on the map and some airfield might be closer.

 

So a game that focusses on small maps with instant action and offers you an unholy amout of respawns (when doing somewhat okish with a plane) causes here and there problems. basically in every match when the enemy spawn is overrun you see people (who died already 3+ times) respawn just to be taken out after their immunity is gone, and 5secs later they will respawn just to die again - there is no point in doing this, it prolongs the battle for the winning team and the guy who respawns 5times just because he has enough points and get killed immediatly will at one point come and cry he has no money because income is so low (because he has to repair 8+ tanks every battle with just doing something else than dying in 2 of them). But if you dont respawn you get crewlock (superior system, somethimes even on tanks that got killed from the enemy omg), its just one huge mess...

 

 

ok omg, wall of text and probably a lot of mistakes^^, but my point stands, the respawn point system is a huge mess that causes more problems (crewlock, repaircosts, unrealistic behavior) than it gives advantages and thus it should be removed.

 

Maybe, but l think it works well now. And l think there should be more tickets and more time and it cost less to respawn, l would love to see a battle with waves of plays battling it out ,and once l'm in a match game on, stuff going to match maker ever 10 to 30mins sitting there watching youtube rubbish instead of blowing stuff up. Plus they just need to change Heavy Meduim and light Tank spawn/respawn costs. You should see more meduim tanks in a battle.Not every tank a TigerH1, IS-2, T92 ect .. Small short matchs would be boring on small little maps , l would love long battles on huge maps with the battle cap on the enemy airfield..

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SKuDD3r said:

The few changes I would like to see:

  1. Reduction in SP cost of tanks to promote people to play more tanks (it is after all a tank game mode, flying should be a luxury)
  2. Bigger disparity in point cost of light-medium-td-heavy.
  3. More spawn point locations on maps, spawning on points closer to the objectives cost more SP
  4. Increase in SP for objectives and other actions, currently players get knocked out of the game way to fast which makes for lopsided games.
  5. Reduce SP awarded for taking hits... I've seen a heavy tank being hit by 3-4 tanks, and 2 planes and rack up 2000 points.
  6. And the thing I want to have changed the most about realistic tanks.... If the enemy team has 0 tanks left, and only players in planes... end the game.  It is a tank game mode... don't make 18 players sit on a one sided game for 5-10 more minutes while there are a couple airplanes in the sky.  It should treat airplanes as a non vehicle... to reinforce people to pick tanks over planes to prolong the game. (It would also help with queue times by getting people out of games when the game is already decided)

 

I agree those all sound like good changes.   

 

Heck, any changes that have been thought through to improve play I'm for.     The point system is drastically more flexible and offers much more opportunities for balance and more diverse play.   

 

They just need to improve on it and give it some attention....

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SKuDD3r said:

The few changes I would like to see:

  1. Reduction in SP cost of tanks to promote people to play more tanks (it is after all a tank game mode, flying should be a luxury)
  2. Bigger disparity in point cost of light-medium-td-heavy.
  3. More spawn point locations on maps, spawning on points closer to the objectives cost more SP
  4. Increase in SP for objectives and other actions, currently players get knocked out of the game way to fast which makes for lopsided games.
  5. Reduce SP awarded for taking hits... I've seen a heavy tank being hit by 3-4 tanks, and 2 planes and rack up 2000 points.
  6. And the thing I want to have changed the most about realistic tanks.... If the enemy team has 0 tanks left, and only players in planes... end the game.  It is a tank game mode... don't make 18 players sit on a one sided game for 5-10 more minutes while there are a couple airplanes in the sky.  It should treat airplanes as a non vehicle... to reinforce people to pick tanks over planes to prolong the game. (It would also help with queue times by getting people out of games when the game is already decided)

 

I agree with every idea here. I think 1, 4 and have the biggest potential to create more engaging and dynamic gameplay. 6 is a no brainer -- if a team ends up with no ground vehicles, it should be treated as a loss.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been thinking about this a bit more. I think that the current system design encourages players to play aircraft... For example, I often see a players who will play fast high damage tanks zip out ahead, grab a kill or two (just enough for an aircraft), bail out of their vehicle (denying the enemy team a chance to get the kill) and then hop into an aircraft (where they can profit).

 

My speculation is that this is an intentional design choice; i.e. "our bread and butter is aircraft, and we can't really compete with WoT on tanks, so our tank system is really about grabbing a fraction of the user base and easing them into aircraft". That's just speculation though. It's also possible this is just poor design (since any design that incents players to engage in non-fun / non-competitive behaviors as they optimize isn't "good" design").

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It can be a valid strategic choice to bail out of your tank to spawn a plane, especially early, especially when you know there will be little to no AAA or other planes to oppose you.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to introduce the 20% or 'one in five' rule. 

Of every five players in a team, only one type is allowed to spawn. 

Five players, only one plane, one SPAA, one heavy, one medium, one ....

Ten players, two of each type. 

There are more than five types so balance will be maintained. 

A plane is a plane, it's ground forces. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What we need is larger maps with new objective types.

 

Conquest Mode would have an entire city section (like Poland) be a huge cap zone (like it is in the "100" TDM Arcade Event). 

 

Domination Mode would play sorta like Star Wars Battlefront 2 but with tanks. Cap zones ARE spawn points. And as such there are many more of them.

 

Battle Mode would be renamed "Front Line," where each side has a two or three layer line of AI defensive forces (37-76mm AT guns firing AP rounds, Light Pillboxes, Heavy Pillboxes, Flak Batteries, MG nests, and Arty emplacements) covering an entire side of the map. Anywhere behind that line is a spawn location, exact spot varies with tank class (heavies and armored mediums at center, less-armored mediums, lights, and TDs at sides, SPAA well behind center, Assault guns just behind heavies). Killing enemy players drains tickets, as does killing the front line defenses. Whoever drains enemy tickets first wins, and there are no caps. 

 

Attack & Defend Mode would have one large cap zone where one team spawns inside and the other team has to assail that fortified location and take it over. The defenders get AI Light and Heavy Pillboxes and Flak batteries while the attackers get a modest numerical advantage. A good map to test this on would be none other than the original version of White Rock Fortress, including the expansive open fields surrounding the building. 

 

Assault Guns would be tasked with cracking Heavy Pillboxes, especially if they're built into locations not easily hit by aircraft. Convoys of supply trucks would enter in all the modes, and would be worth tickets. Protect them and you get a large amount of SP, RP, and SL. Capping points would be harder and riskier but minimum all players in a cap as it is taken get 2k RP.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt gaijin will change anything in any significant matter. The game is supposedly finished after all.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, MrChesse said:

I doubt gaijin will change anything in any significant matter. The game is supposedly finished after all.

 

 

So much hard work on the assets, so little on the foundation, and hardly any on the player experience.     It is a really beautiful game and the performance is spectacular.  

 

It makes me wonder who is going to play boats..    It is the third time.

 

Such a waste.....

 

 

 

Edited by Sidiros
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, *Naik_NL said:

Time to introduce the 20% or 'one in five' rule. 

Of every five players in a team, only one type is allowed to spawn. 

Five players, only one plane, one SPAA, one heavy, one medium, one ....

Ten players, two of each type. 

There are more than five types so balance will be maintained. 

A plane is a plane, it's ground forces. 

 

There are about a half dozen reasons why this wouldn't work.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Sidiros said:

 

 

So much hard work on the assets, so little on the foundation, and hardly any on the player experience.     It is a really beautiful game and the performance is spectacular.  

 

It makes me wonder who is going to play boats..    It is the third time.

 

Such a waste.....

 

 

 

 

Totally agree here. They have the vehicles, Now they need to look at what we do with them... And boats will be fun for a day or two then it will be back to aircraft and armored warfare for me.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While there have been a lot of good ideas expressed in this thread, I do not think that respawning has any place whatsoever in realistic battle.  Here's why:

 

1. Getting rid of re-spawns would also get rid of the other major problem right now and that is "spawn camping". If nothing spawns, there is nothing to camp. End of story, problem solved. 

 

2. Re-spawns encourage a more "arcade" style of game play. I highly doubt that there would be people rushing the point in AAA and abusing this to get insta-planes (which also ruins the battle imo). If these people knew that they wouldn't respawn in their tank and could act nothing happened in the event they are killed, they probably wouldn't rush that way. 

 

3. Makes BR determination harder. Instead of going into battle with up to 10 different vehicles to chose from it should be like air RB. The tank you have selected in the hangar should be the one  *and only* tank you enter the battle with. 

 

It just takes what should be an awesome game mode and turns it into Arcade without nameplates. You adopt a complete different style of play when you know you can respawn and this makes it feel a lot less "realistic". I'm not talking about the re-spawns themselves being unrealistic, but the method of game play that they encourage. So what if you die early without a kill? Go find another match and "respawn" that way. You don't hear RB air players complaining about side climbing for 10 minutes, spend another 5 picking you target and then getting taken out without a single kill. It's the the name of the game and that's what makes it at least semi-realistic.

 

Currently RB tanks feels waaay to much like Arcade and this is 100% because of the "respawn cushion" which also happens to encourage spawn camping. Personally I hate hate hate hate... Haaaate the respawn system and do not think it has any place whatsoever in a realistic game mode. Keep it for the mixed event battle but that's it. If you insist on keeping respawn then you absolutely need to add multiple spawn points and increase the map size. Please Gaijin - trust me on this one. 

Edited by JODY_HiGHROLLER
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, BritishCooking said:

It can be a valid strategic choice to bail out of your tank to spawn a plane, especially early, especially when you know there will be little to no AAA or other planes to oppose you.

 

Right. It's not just valid behavior, it's heavily incentivized (better rewards and better points for the same actions; planes are cheaper in SP than tanks after the first spawn). But it leads to unrealistic gameplay (tanks disappear with no chance to kill them in turn for SP, even though they're now in a very vulnerable position), and I would argue poor gameplay for game ostensibly focused on tanks.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JODY_HiGHROLLER said:

While there have been a lot of good ideas expressed in this thread, I do not think that respawning has any place whatsoever in realistic battle.  Here's why:

 

1. Getting rid of re-spawns would also get rid of the other major problem right now and that is "spawn camping". If nothing spawns, there is nothing to camp. End of story, problem solved. 

 

2. Re-spawns encourage a more "arcade" style of game play. I highly doubt that there would be people rushing the point in AAA and abusing this to get insta-planes (which also ruins the battle imo). If these people knew that they wouldn't respawn in their tank and could act nothing happened in the event they are killed, they probably wouldn't rush that way. 

 

3. Makes BR determination harder. Instead of going into battle with up to 10 different vehicles to chose from it should be like air RB. The tank you have selected in the hangar should be the one  *and only* tank you enter the battle with. 

 

It just takes what should be an awesome game mode and turns it into Arcade without nameplates. You adopt a complete different style of play when you know you can respawn and this makes it feel a lot less "realistic". I'm not talking about the re-spawns themselves being unrealistic, but the method of game play that they encourage. So what if you die early without a kill? Go find another match and "respawn" that way. You don't hear RB air players complaining about side climbing for 10 minutes, spend another 5 picking you target and then getting taken out without a single kill. It's the the name of the game and that's what makes it at least semi-realistic.

 

Currently RB tanks feels waaay to much like Arcade and this is 100% because of the "respawn cushion" which also happens to encourage spawn camping. Personally I hate hate hate hate... Haaaate the respawn system and do not think it has any place whatsoever in a realistic game mode. Keep it for the mixed event battle but that's it. If you insist on keeping respawn then you absolutely need to add multiple spawn points and increase the map size. Please Gaijin - trust me on this one. 

 

It's called Sim mode.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, BritishCooking said:

 

There are about a half dozen reasons why this wouldn't work.

As you're pretty certain about that, name all six of them...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, *Naik_NL said:

As you're pretty certain about that, name all six of them...

 

1. Not everyone is going to have a mix of tanks slotted at any given time. Some BRs only have 2-3 choices of a given vehicle. So you load into a game late, join a match in progress, and find that too many medium and light tanks have been spawned. You, with your Pershing and Walker Bulldog... get to leave the game and get crewlocked? Wait for seven minutes until one of them dies?

 

2. Narrowing the focus of what is and is not allowed to spawn will require numerous BR adjustments, because it will somewhat obviously change the balance of the game.

 

3. Planes are to be limited by the number of other planes? So, two teammates spawn fighters to MG tanks and do sick loops, and... now I can't spawn an attacker? What, is the sky full?

 

4. People usually have one specific tank in mind when they queue for a match. If you remove people's ability to grind the thing they want to grind, they will get frustrated and quit.

 

5. Some maps heavily favor one certain type of tank above others. You don't want to be playing a light tank on matches that force slugging matches down narrow lanes. You maybe don't want to be playing a heavy tank in a CQC map with many little obstacles to get caught on.

 

6.Types ( heavy, medium, etc ) do not matter nearly as much as the capability of the tanks. For the purpose of balance, what maters most of all is how a tank performs against others in it's BR bracket. How good is its armor against the guns it sees? How good is its gun? How often does it win compared to other tanks of the same BR? If it loses a bunch, perhaps it should be lowered, or perhaps something is wrong with the way it performs. If it wins a lot, perhaps its BR should be raised.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.