6 hours ago, Conraire said:

 

Actually if you read through that part of hunnicutt's Firepower where it starts talking about the T43/T43e1 development, it says that the T123 gun obtains a 3500ft/s muzzle velocity from the same 50lb Shot that was fired by the T53 gun......  It says the T122 in the original T43 Pilot had ballistics identical to the T53 gun, with the same shot..  T116 actually predates the T122/T123 Guns, the original designation of the shot intended for the T123 was T117, but they dropped it and instead just further improved T116. 

Don't think the T34 having T116 would be much of a balance breaker...  Now the T98 apds on the other hand... HVAP is giving issues as well, Hunnicutt's and form factors say 4100ft/s from T53... Detroit conference says 3500 for that version of the hvap round. 

 

I referred to T122 in the first place. The T43 one.

 

I thought Ken Estes said the T116 was loaded only on the T43?

Like the T34 > T116 AP > T43

 

The T116 wouldn't be a balance breaker indeed, but the amount of tanks getting pierced right in the front hull, though...

Including the King Tiger & IS-6 at very much standard range.

 

Remind me, the muzzle velocity of the Detroit Arsenal datasheet is underestimated as per 1949.

T14E3: 3150 ft/s (3100 ft/s, +50 ft difference)

T17E1: 3550 ft/s (4150 ft/s, +600 ft difference)

T15E3: 2500 ft/s (3100 ft/s, -600 ft difference)

 

5952919d262b9_DetroitArsenalDatabase.thu

 

From the From Factor, the velocity of all rounds are updated with upped velocity, except the T98, which is not seen anywhere else...

The T17E1's weight is also lighter in here (28 lb : 36 lb), some discrepancies with the same shells from 2 different sources. The velocity increased by 600 ft/s. Although no core weight nor diameter is showed in here.

76vSk6X.png.1288c0a16f1b60d36fcf7dc1a5f0

 

If the T17E1 increased 600 ft by velocity, what would the penetration be if the T98 also increased that much (from 3800 ft/s to 4400 ft/s)?

I still haven't known the latest penetration with upped velocity of both shells yet (the last one you made the table is at both 3550 ft/s & 3800 ft/s with WWII Ballistics based from Detroit Datasheet)

597d46e19087a_T17E1HVAP.png.3dead87c2430

597d46e375144_T98APDS.png.51e7b4eccd3f59

 

Other than T17E1 penetrates 540 mm armor at 4150 ft/s...

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18 hours ago, Sirchby said:

597d46e375144_T98APDS.png.51e7b4eccd3f59

 

Has it been confirmed the T34 had the T98 APDS Shell ? IIRC there is a lack of data of whether the T34 was armed or planned to have this particular shell.

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3 hours ago, Capt_D_K_Marcus said:

Has it been confirmed the T34 had the T98 APDS Shell ? IIRC there is a lack of data of whether the T34 was armed or planned to have this particular shell.

 

22 hours ago, Sirchby said:

5952919d262b9_DetroitArsenalDatabase.thu

 

 

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+1 to bring this topic back to life

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Germany/Japan: 150mm Derp Guns

USSR: 152mm Derp Guns

UK: 183mm Derp Gun

Now give US a 155mm Derp Gun. :)

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I need some big guns and that 155 mm just looks beautiful

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Hey Sirchby, are there any books that talk about the T30 that you don't have? Maybe even a brief mention somewhere? My aunt asked what book I might want for Christmas and I though I might take up her offer this year AND (attempt to) help the game and this suggestion. 

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No, it's should be enough from here.

 

The only thing buggering me is the current mechanics preventing large caliber HE from effectively damaging tanks (if they could have just made a "damage hitpoint" based from high explosive from modified hull break mechanic), forcing the HE out of the role.

 

I don't even think the suggestion to arm HESH & HEAT round is a good idea in the first place either. A 1945 heavy tank armed with 1958 ammunition really violates my sense of WWII aesthetics...

 

 

 

But I think I've remembered something about 155 mm T29E1 APCBC-HE round somewhere.

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11 minutes ago, Sirchby said:

No, it's should be enough from here.

 

Ok. 

 

15 minutes ago, Sirchby said:

 

The only thing buggering me is the current mechanics preventing large caliber HE from effectively damaging tanks (if they could have just made a "damage hitpoint" based from high explosive from modified hull break mechanic), forcing the HE out of the role.

 

 

IRL, ANY tank could be hullbroken so long as you have a big enough shell, case in point: 

 

isu-cats-1.jpg

 

This poor panther got smacked by 2x 152mm shells from an (I)SU-152, which obviously annihilated the rear portion of the turret and created a massive dent in the UFP. This is not to mention that HE also creates spalling too, not as profound as HESH, but still noticeable (that dent in the front hull probably caused some spalling into the crew compartment). 

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Wait a second...

 

’looks at the OP’... 

 

What about the T58 Heavy? Need any info on that? 

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Changed the original post. Refurbishing my old suggestions like this one to a new format like the the recent one (M6A2, M36B2, M9), in progress.

 

I strongly object the T58 for all intent & purpose, being a mock up tank with limited available information to build. + a balancing nightmare, that's for sure.

 

 

For now, I only prioritize the completion of the T30 based from WWII loadout.

Edited by Sirchby
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On 10/12/2016 at 9:13 PM, Whelmy said:

There was a T29 APC round developed for the 155mm as well.

 

It weighed 115 lbs, T70 fuze with HE filler (no idea on weight for this version)

Not sure what the firing velocity was in the M1. (again would have been less in the T7)

 

Ballistic limits

 

T29

 

152.4 mm @ 45 deg  2484 f/s

152.4 mm FH @ 20 deg 1822 f/s

203.2 mm @ 30 deg 2562 f/s

 

T29E1

 

152.4 mm @ 45 deg  -

152.4 mm FH @ 20 deg 1720 f/s

203.2 mm @ 30 deg 2533 f/s

 

Later they wanted to reduce the weight of the T29E1 to 100 lbs by shaving the weight off the cap. Designs were finished for this, and the filler weight was said to be 1.5% by weight. (so 1.5 lbs / 680.389 grams.

 

Found it.

T29E1 fired from M1:

 

203.2 mm @ 30 deg 2533 f/s

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Its so hard to find information about the T30, i'm still looking for answers if it did fire a APBCHE round or any type of HESH or HE round that i never heard of.

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Oh thank god. so it fired a APBC-HE round was it the only round it fired or did it fired APCR or APDS round?

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2 hours ago, Evildarkknight said:

Oh thank god. so it fired a APBC-HE round was it the only round it fired or did it fired APCR or APDS round?

 

Did you read the OP (original post)? It fired APHEBC, HE, and HVAP (APCR). It also shot an APDS-FS, but there’s not a lot of info on that shell, so it’s unlikely. Lastly, there was a HESH and HEAT (FS?) shell developed for the 155mm gun, but this was a little while after the T30 was cancelled, so it’s unlikely the T30 will use them when (if) it gets added. 

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Talking about HESH & HEAT was a mistake in the first place...

 

The video where T30 fired some kind of APFSDS was sent by Whelmy, though I don't know the rest of it. I might consider removing the APFSDS from the list due to that, & modern rounds being used.

 

 

At least, there was a last project to develop a 155 mm shell specific for anti-tank purpose, which was the T29E1.

 

In theory, it could also be fired by T7, but that would mean decreased velocity.

 

To make an example:

M112B1 fired from M1 has 2745 ft/s muzzle velocity. (198 mm penetration)

M112B1 fired from T7 has 2200 ft/s muzzle velocity (170 mm penetration)

Velocity decreased as many as 545 ft/s.

 

Assuming the T29E1 has the same muzzle velocity as the M112B1, the drop might have been similar too. But the penetration could have been higher, instead of staggering 170 mm.

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170M Pentration oh god I hope it isn’t that one for the gun’ I think the penetration would be like the jagdtiger or the german tds.

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Sirchby i just realized the T30 was meant for destroying German fortifications only is this true, cause then why would gaijin add a tank that can't kill tanks IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE WTF?! 

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It had a secondary role as anti-tank. Howitzer tank destroyer like SU-152 didn't need high penetrating AP to flatten the enemy tanks (like that one Panther above).

 

Probably for the T30, there are 2 options. Either improve the HE mechanics (as good as the early days of HE fireworks), or getting the T29E1 APC.

 

The penetration would increase over the M112B1 AP, but not god-like 279 mm penetration you find in WoT.

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The T29E1 APCBC-HE should pen 215mm at 0*, 166mm at 30 degrees at 2200 fps muzzle velocity.

Edited by *MiseryIndex556

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Thanks for the calculation, MiseryIndex.

 

So this is the T29E1 APCBC. From Situation Report No. 34 - Para 149.

The explosive mass is 1.5% (653 gr) of the shell weight (100 lb), same as the M112B1 APBC.

https://i.imgur.com/5iiowoN.jpg

 

So, to put it into shell specification:

 

155 mm T29E1 APCBC-HE

Projectile Mass: 45.36 kg (100 lb)

Muzzle Velocity: 670 m/s (2200 ft/s)

Explosive Type: Exp. D

Explosive Mass: 653 g (1.44 lb)

Fuze Type: B.D., T70

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