sabaton_

Operation "Unthinkable", yes it was unthinkable

161 posts in this topic

On 11/29/2016 at 9:59 PM, Sodanjumala said:

With all the talk about nuclear bombs being used, would had Americans used them against targets in countries that they are supposed trying to liberate?

Bombing civilians is a legit anglo/american strategy in all conflicts since and including WW2 so yes it was inevitable. This is a war strategy of terror: bomb civilians and force the surrender.

Edited by Max__Damage
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also you guys are forgeting something, all the B-29 were in the pacific theater in May 1945, it would take a while to put them into service in Europe against the soviets.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, sabaton_ said:

Also you guys are forgeting something, all the B-29 were in the pacific theater in May 1945, it would take a while to put them into service in Europe against the soviets.

Yes that is true. It wouldn't be until early to mid 1946 that b29s would start bombing the soviets.  Before that the missions would be carried out by b17s that didn't have the range and couldn't flay as high and fast as the b29.  I don't see a bombing campaign happening until b29s are present tbh.

 

Instead I see a Soviet offensive to capture nearby airfields to prevent the b29s from operating.  That could be interesting because the Soviet planes could very well compete with the allied planes at low altitude.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO probably not longer than a month or 6 weeks to transfer B29's to Europe and make them operational.

 

Operation Matterhorn was the B29 operations from China - it was planned and approved in October 1943, ground forces started building airbases in India and China in December 1943, and 1 wing of B29's was available (but not operational) in April 1944.

 

For Europe you already have airbases, teh wings are already experienced and trained, you have no supply issues, you literally can fly the aircraft from the Pacific to USA to Europe over a week or so (to get to china they flew the Atlantic from Florida to Brazil then Nth Africa to get to India!) - moving ground crews is likely to be the main problem!!  But by 1945 you have a large fleet of 4 engined transports for that function too.

 

It would have taken some planning - but it was well within the capabilities of the forces at the time IMO.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to point out something of interest to me.

 

I think had Britain and the US miraculously convinced their publics that Stalin was as bad and evil as Hitler and had successfully swayed them into declaring war, they have a few other issues to deal with. Firstly, tank power. In 1945, the Soviets far outnumbered the British and American tanks in production at the time, plus were better armoured and armed, and generally more up to the task of fighting a land war in 1945. Britain and the USA were just getting modern designs to the field (Comet, Pershing and Centurion about to be deployed). The Soviets simply would have won in open fields. Of course we don't know what developments could have come in had this occurred. We don't know if the Black Prince, T29 or Tortoise tanks would have seen production as well, and we don't know what the Soviets would have responded with.

 

On top of this, we have an issue with generals. I'd say the US is a bit safer here, as they had very good army group commanders, who were incredibly good at their job. Britain however lacks. Montgomery was adequate for the task and Alexander was a competent general himself, however the true best British generals are relatively unknown, such as Slim, thus putting the British at a disadvantage due to Montgomery's cautious nature. A victory against the USSR would need to be a swift one, but the British would likely be too cautious to pull such a task off. They would need to recognise the more successful generals but I do not see this happening.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 15/1/2017 at 7:16 PM, DoLhades said:

I'd like to point out something of interest to me.

 

I think had Britain and the US miraculously convinced their publics that Stalin was as bad and evil as Hitler and had successfully swayed them into declaring war, they have a few other issues to deal with. Firstly, tank power. In 1945, the Soviets far outnumbered the British and American tanks in production at the time, plus were better armoured and armed, and generally more up to the task of fighting a land war in 1945. Britain and the USA were just getting modern designs to the field (Comet, Pershing and Centurion about to be deployed). The Soviets simply would have won in open fields. Of course we don't know what developments could have come in had this occurred. We don't know if the Black Prince, T29 or Tortoise tanks would have seen production as well, and we don't know what the Soviets would have responded with.

 

On top of this, we have an issue with generals. I'd say the US is a bit safer here, as they had very good army group commanders, who were incredibly good at their job. Britain however lacks. Montgomery was adequate for the task and Alexander was a competent general himself, however the true best British generals are relatively unknown, such as Slim, thus putting the British at a disadvantage due to Montgomery's cautious nature. A victory against the USSR would need to be a swift one, but the British would likely be too cautious to pull such a task off. They would need to recognise the more successful generals but I do not see this happening.

 

The soviet answer would be T-44, IS-3,IS-4 and probably some of those strange "object" models

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nonetheless the only major advantage Britain and the US would have is Visibility, they'd engage first but penetrate? That's debatable.

 

But the Germans and French would have some interestingly fast paced vehicles if this occurred in the 50s.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/2/2017 at 0:39 AM, DoLhades said:

Nonetheless the only major advantage Britain and the US would have is Visibility, they'd engage first but penetrate? That's debatable.

 

But the Germans and French would have some interestingly fast paced vehicles if this occurred in the 50s.

Considering a war as soon as the 1945 starts.. well backbone of URSS forces was the T34/85. sherman 76 could easily pierce a T34. Both 17 pdr and 77 HV would have done the job from 2 km. The pershing with 90 mm could engage any soviet AFV. I think that US would immidiatly field more m26 armed with the long 90 mm and then deploy their wunderwaffe as soon as it s ready ( t29 etc etc) 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, bellezza03 said:

Considering a war as soon as the 1945 starts.. well backbone of URSS forces was the T34/85. sherman 76 could easily pierce a T34. Both 17 pdr and 77 HV would have done the job from 2 km. The pershing with 90 mm could engage any soviet AFV. I think that US would immidiatly field more m26 armed with the long 90 mm and then deploy their wunderwaffe as soon as it s ready ( t29 etc etc) 

This with the wehrmacht supporting them, with whatever equipment they still had left.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how much a possible german contribution to the Opeation Unthinkable would do and how the Allies could support them.

Like, would it be possible to supply german mass-production of Panthers by Allies and how would that affect their chances on the ground (as afaik the Panther literally could hold its own against anything soviet until IS-3, T-44, T-54, IS-4).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe allowing the production of the jadgtiger to have already there a tested TD against the new generation of soviet armor

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.