Veraklion

Type 4/5 vs Maus. How would they compare?

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So since IJ ground forces are being added. I wonder, if the Type 4/5 is going to be there as Japans big bad super heavy tank, how would it compare to the Maus?

 

Would it be immune to the Maus in most fights they'll have with each other on the maps in game? Would its gun be on par, superior to, or inferior to the 128 on the Maus?

 

Because I'd love to see a duel between these two massive machines, but I'd like to know before then, how the Type 4/5 would compare to the Maus in things like effective armor, firepower, maneuverability, etc. But most important, which one will most likely kill the other.

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the Type 4/5 would have a superior gun by caliber, given this is a fairly fantasy tank I have my doubts it will be in game, but if we are to go by the WoT ingame model we can assume the gun will arguably be 140mm and potentially as potent if not more potent than the 128mm /L55 from the Maus. the armour of the Maus has better sloping, but from what it seems unless they give the Maus the proper turret armour the Type 4/5 will have better turret armour.

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42 minutes ago, Optical_Ilyushin said:

the Type 4/5 would have a superior gun by caliber, given this is a fairly fantasy tank I have my doubts it will be in game, but if we are to go by the WoT ingame model we can assume the gun will arguably be 140mm and potentially as potent if not more potent than the 128mm /L55 from the Maus. the armour of the Maus has better sloping, but from what it seems unless they give the Maus the proper turret armour the Type 4/5 will have better turret armour.

 

If I remember right, I think Mai Waffentrager or something like that showed that it did exist, or at least, was being built. Just that the information on it is low enough to question whether or not it should be in the game.

 

Which I think it should be, because it's cool, and I think half the reason we all play this game, is to drive around and fly these ww2 machines.

 

I think when I checked the armor on the type 4/5 and compared it to the best penetrating Maus round in War Thunder, it seemed like the Type 4/5 might be immune frontally at 500+ meters to the Maus. But then again, that's WoT, with alot of things being altered for gameplay balance rather than mixing realism and balance together.

 

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Veraklion said:

 

If I remember right, I think Mai Waffentrager or something like that showed that it did exist, or at least, was being built. Just that the information on it is low enough to question whether or not it should be in the game.

 

Which I think it should be, because it's cool, and I think half the reason we all play this game, is to drive around and fly these ww2 machines.

 

I think when I checked the armor on the type 4/5 and compared it to the best penetrating Maus round in War Thunder, it seemed like the Type 4/5 might be immune frontally at 500+ meters to the Maus. But then again, that's WoT, with alot of things being altered for gameplay balance rather than mixing realism and balance together.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure she is actually the one who confirmed it is fake.

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1 minute ago, blankfile said:

 

She said the OI with the 105mm is fake. Type 5 is for all i know real.

 

Ah I see.

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Type4/5 has massive number of crews and huge layout (again of WoT model) 

it would be near immune to 128 of maus ( if not immune) since the jagtiger 250 armor,Maus have alot of issue to penetrate (Yes it can but 50/50)

260 with a slight slop would make it immune (not to mention if player angled his tank) 

 

in my opinion,Yes it is immune. 

BUT once Type4/5 get penetrated it is OHK dew layout.

But type 4/5 is immune to APHE in side (if war thunder modeled it same as WoT) Because it has side skirts of 35 mm enough to donate the APHE and Eat HEAT.

 

So it would be better then maus in my opinoin.

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5 hours ago, Herdmy said:

Type4/5 has massive number of crews and huge layout (again of WoT model) 

it would be near immune to 128 of maus ( if not immune) since the jagtiger 250 armor,Maus have alot of issue to penetrate (Yes it can but 50/50)

260 with a slight slop would make it immune (not to mention if player angled his tank) 

 

in my opinion,Yes it is immune. 

BUT once Type4/5 get penetrated it is OHK dew layout.

But type 4/5 is immune to APHE in side (if war thunder modeled it same as WoT) Because it has side skirts of 35 mm enough to donate the APHE and Eat HEAT.

 

So it would be better then maus in my opinoin.

 

Too bad chances are that if it'll show up, it'll be put in 7.7 or 8.0 like the Maus because...reasons. Where its armor will be basically nonexistent XD

 

Strange thought process...put in a tank that relies soley on armor to get the job done...throw it into a br where it fights tanks using ammunition that makes armor basically useless, it'd be better to just have barely enough armor to survive 50 cals and enjoy the mobility instead.

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It'd be nice to see, I hope we do and who knows at tier V, at tier I-IV though I'd imagine should mostly be on the Axis side so the O-1 should be paired up with the Tiger 1 at least Tiger 2 at most.  It will make things interesting that's for sure!

Course I'm talking about RB where I spend my time in AB it's anyone's guess.

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44 minutes ago, RexLuporum said:

It'd be nice to see, I hope we do and who knows at tier V, at tier I-IV though I'd imagine should mostly be on the Axis side so the O-1 should be paired up with the Tiger 1 at least Tiger 2 at most.  It will make things interesting that's for sure!

Course I'm talking about RB where I spend my time in AB it's anyone's guess.

 

It'd be a great combination, the Germans and japanese.

 

From the looks of it, both sides will have defensive play in mind, although the Germans seem to use armor and accuracy, whereas from what I see so far, the japanese will use firepower and adaptability, seeing as they have fast firing guns, some with auto-loaders, great gun depression, and they're probably pretty mobile on hills and generally difficult terrain.

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we don't even know what thickness the armor would have, as the proof that it existed we have a photo that it's claimed to the Type 4/5 by someone and a bunker turret by other else. The soviets blow up the "thing" despite they captured it so.... well probably it wasn't a tank since russian used to capture enemy tanks as trophy ( look at destroyed maus being re built and sent to Kubika ). Also Wot as source.... GG

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It really depended on the logistical situation for example was it near a rail line, was it dug in, was the ground soft n muddy (august in Manchuria depending on the region is hot and muggy if it was closer to the border with Russia then it would still have the possibility of being rainy and muddy) was it too big for a recovery vehicle to move.  I can keep listing the reasons why Russia may of decided to blow it up and with the Japanese at the time unless they'd abandoned the fort it was in better safe then sorry.

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On 5/10/2016 at 6:37 AM, Optical_Ilyushin said:

the Type 4/5 would have a superior gun by caliber, given this is a fairly fantasy tank I have my doubts it will be in game, but if we are to go by the WoT ingame model we can assume the gun will arguably be 140mm and potentially as potent if not more potent than the 128mm /L55 from the Maus.

 

IIRC it was a 14cm cannon.  A 14cm cannon that was designed for ships, and, as such, has an uncomfortable shell setup for anti-tank work.  APHE which is too HE focused for great pen and too AP focused for non-penetrating derp work.  Talking about 140mm point-blank penetration and 2kg of bursting charge.

 

Same problem as the long 12cm mounted on the Chi-Ha chassis.  They'll be terribad unless Gaijin gives them a super charge or allows the ASW shells fired at full charge (no data on whether they could be fired like that or not).

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1 hour ago, Orlunu said:

 

.

 

Same problem as the long 12cm mounted on the Chi-Ha chassis.  They'll be terribad unless Gaijin gives them a super charge or allows the ASW shells fired at full charge (no data on whether they could be fired like that or not).

what does that mean, firing at full charge?

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38 minutes ago, hatorihina said:

what does that mean, firing at full charge?

 

27 minutes ago, Fighter117 said:

Not sure. But maybe the crew could chose how many charges to load as in modern artillery guns.


Most of the naval artillery used the system of several smaller charges stuffed in together, which is where the terminology comes from.  This specific gun actually just used a single charge, but available in different weights.

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Usually big calibre cannons have separate projectile and propellant charge. It makes loading easier than one, very heavy shell and you can use diffrent propellants to change muzzle velocity of shells. For example 128 uses wrong charge. It should use heavy charge, used for hunting tanks, it would massively improve penetration. Thus i doubt Gaijin would make it correct, or switch something. Tho it might be related to error in WW2 balistics and gunnery. 

Edited by Nefer666
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On 10/5/2016 at 1:54 PM, Veraklion said:

So since IJ ground forces are being added. I wonder, if the Type 4/5 is going to be there as Japans big bad super heavy tank, how would it compare to the Maus?

 

Would it be immune to the Maus in most fights they'll have with each other on the maps in game? Would its gun be on par, superior to, or inferior to the 128 on the Maus?

 

Because I'd love to see a duel between these two massive machines, but I'd like to know before then, how the Type 4/5 would compare to the Maus in things like effective armor, firepower, maneuverability, etc. But most important, which one will most likely kill the other.

Its hard to say that its "immune" from the Maus. Historically it was confirmed that the Type 5 actually had 200mm of armor all around(exact value is unknown) and not 260mm which was in WOT for balancing. With that the Maus will have little to no issue on penetrating its armor. The armament is a different issue. The Type 4/5 was suppose to mount a 140-200mm gun which were naval guns. As Orlunu stated the 140 is too much HE dependent and may not do a good job on anti tank so I wouldn't say that its actually "superior" to the 128. Plus it would have a slower reload speed. The 128 would be superior in terms of reload and having 300mm penetration APDS(only if Gaijin actually adds them). I'm not sure about the other guns and I doubt that Gaijin will add them due to the reload. 

There's nothing much to add on Maneuverability. Little is known about the Type 4/5's maneuverability aside from its top speed which is 30km/h(possibly). So therefore its impossible to make a comparison

 

Who would win? 

This will be also dependent. Its mostly on who fires first and where they shoot. It is clear that the Maus will have no trouble on penetrating the Type 4/5's armor since its only 180-200mm. I'm not sure how the 140 or the other cannons will do against the Maus.

Edited by Railer99

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I have major doubts those tanks were every built, unless there's more evidence...

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there was a suggestion in the closed beta thread that was shot down and closed. there's both documentation and photograph evidence that the type 4 and type 5 DID more or less exist, but what is known (and it ain't all that much) apparently doesn't have much in the way of specifics.

 

the type 4 was to be the ultimate japanese tank, while the type 5 was its logical successor to be fitted with new upgrades while ironing out the issues with the type 4.

unlike the claims all too many people make towards prototypes and well documented paper tanks, the Type 5 truly is a fantasy tank, while the type 4 is only slightly less so- barring Mai uncovering a forgotten document detailing the specs of the type 4 and making it a feasible idea for addition.

 

a quote from Mai: 

"What I have from mentions of the archive is small and provides no supporting details on its appearance. Just proving the existence of the vehicle, which is the Type4 super heavy tank. 

 

Type5 is the theoretical improvement of the Type4, only existed as a mockup. Nonetheless, not enough exists on how the tank looked to make an accurate model. I do not support adding it."

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On 17.1.2017 at 5:37 AM, Railer99 said:

 The 128 would be superior in terms of reload and having 300mm penetration APDS(only if Gaijin actually adds them). I'm not sure about the other guns and I doubt that Gaijin will add them due to the reload. 

 

300mm should be the standart round have but u know gaijin ...

 

APDS would be around 380-390mm

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2 hours ago, JG27_Iluminas said:

300mm should be the standart round have but u know gaijin ...

 

APDS would be around 380-390mm

Uhmm ok, any actual firing trials or BL estimations?

Or you are basing this on estimations as you did with the 128mm APCBC performance which is 90% based on Demarre and 10% on a single graph?

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On 1/19/2017 at 9:35 PM, JG27_Iluminas said:

300mm should be the standart round have but u know gaijin ...

 

APDS would be around 380-390mm

Right I forgot. It was actually 400mm penetration according to records.

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