Hoppy53

arcade
Kamikaze Pilots during Tank Battles. Fair??

46 posts in this topic

18 minutes ago, tweetybird9735 said:

I've been killed several times today by suicide planes.  I have to repeat that whether their payload is technically the "cause of death" of the ground vehicle the aircraft crashes into, is moot.

 

Just now, I was killed while capping at the end of a battle, by a player who achieved 11 kills.  It was almost certainly decisive.  The battle would almost certainly have been a victory for my team.  How many of this player's kills were done by suicide?  I'm going to review the replay right now, and give you the answer.

Really? 

Are you sure it wasn't a bomber that dropped its bombs just before it crashed?

 

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Reviewing the battle, the player I mentioned above got ten of their kills with their ground vehicles (which, btw, if you couldn't get 10 kills in a battle with a Jumbo, M4A2, and a M6, well. . . .), two of those by spawn camping.  Spawn camping and suiciding.  Nice.

 

BTW, the replay does show the player firing rockets just before they crash. But, since my vehicle was in the middle of buildings, they had a very good chance of not hitting their target if they did anything other than a near vertical suicide dive.  So, the fact they were able to spawn camp without penalty, and then go kamikaze without penalty, was decisive in the outcome of the battle.

 

Really, guys, just create an option for ground forces only battles.

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33 minutes ago, Fury_733 said:

Really? 

Are you sure it wasn't a bomber that dropped its bombs just before it crashed?

 

Read both my posts just prior to yours, then read my last post just above this one.  Whether they released ordinance just prior to "crashing" is irrelevant.  They suicided in order to get a sure kill.

Edited by tweetybird9735
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6 minutes ago, tweetybird9735 said:

Reviewing the battle, the player I mentioned above got ten of their kills with their ground vehicles (which, btw, if you couldn't get 10 kills in a battle with a Jumbo, M4A2, and a M6, well. . . .), two of those by spawn camping.  Spawn camping and suiciding.  Nice.

 

BTW, the replay does show the player firing rockets just before they crash. But, since my vehicle was in the middle of buildings, they had a very good chance of not hitting their target if they did anything other than a near vertical suicide dive.  So, the fact they were able to spawn camp without penalty, and then go kamikaze without penalty, was decisive in the outcome of the battle.

 

Really, guys, just create an option for ground forces only battles.

I am sure Kamikaze has been removed... A long time ago

Although you are behind the buildings, it is possible for them to fire rockets and kill you..

Maybe an artillery fire?

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1 hour ago, tweetybird9735 said:

I've been killed several times today by suicide planes.  I have to repeat that whether their payload is technically the "cause of death" of the ground vehicle the aircraft crashes into, is moot.

 

Just now, I was killed while capping at the end of a battle, by a player who achieved 11 kills.  It was almost certainly decisive.  The battle would almost certainly have been a victory for my team.  How many of this player's kills were done by suicide?  I'm going to review the replay right now, and give you the answer.

 

 

I guess I should clarify:  It doesn't seem that fighters escorting or intercepting bombers in these missions and crash and damage tanks.  There is still a huge problem, but it seems that you can't (or at least it is extremely difficult) to get a kill by ramming with a fighter.

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17 minutes ago, tweetybird9735 said:

Read both my posts just prior to yours, then read my last post just above this one.  Whether they released ordinance just prior to "crashing" is irrelevant.  They suicided in order to get a sure kill.

You make total non-sense...

 

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I know what he means.  Many people don't like the care free nature of air missions in GF arcade, and the lack of skill to suicide aircraft, and the lack of consequence.  They take away from the gameplay.

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I have played this game for a long time now do not post much in the forums, but this tactic of crashing your plane into a tank and releasing the bombs just before impact, is about as cheese game play as I have seen, it really is against the sprit of the game, and just a cheap shot, I like to drop my bombs and get away for the safe bomber achievement, but then again I like to keep the integrity of the game also.

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It's been almost a year since I first posted about this, and it's still an issue for a lot of players, including those that have left the game in frustration as someone claimed in an earlier post. With spawn camping, suiciding planes in AB tank battles remains high on the hate list, but unfortunately it is still a legitimate tactic that I think we have to accept given the other concessions to playability versus realism. I don't think removing or opting out aircraft from AB tank games is a solution, as that would render the all of the AAA trees pointless. I actually quite like using AAA and shooting down planes, I just don't like when they crash into me because there is no penalty accruing to them - it's a free kill

 

There are some good solutions suggested throughout this thread, and if I may blend a couple of them I think Gaijin could have a workable, practical, and fair solution:

  • Leave the 'fly-out' opportunities as they are - in the long run they are just as likely to lose a game for their side as win one.
    • After all, the player is sacrificing the utility of whatever ground unit they are in for the dubious advantage of whatever aircraft the game gives them.
    • I can't count how many times a player with a formidable tank has jumped out into a fighter that at best can kill one unit by suiciding. Going after the enemy's aircraft in your own 'fly-out' aircraft is a pointless recipe for frustration and ineffectiveness - you basically just chase the enemy into the ground as THEY suicide. Much better to have a rapid fire AAA in your line up.
      • I had a wry smile in one game recently as the enemy were waaay in front and could comfortably do fly-outs without too much risk of losing their temporarily abandoned tanks. So, the air was buzzing with all sorts of aerial targets just waiting to suicide or be shot down. One of our players decided that just then would be a good time to do their own fly-out, into a hostile aerial environment, leaving their tank in full view of about three locked and loaded enemy tanks. Their joy flight lasted about 20 seconds, as he was killed by one of the many enemy aircraft on their way to suiciding on someone, while their tank lasted about 10 seconds less. The real sweetener here was that the tank they abandoned was a Wirbelwind - one of the most ferocious units in the game (easily my favourite), certainly at it's tier, against air OR ground units. I just wanted to pick the player up and shake them!
  • OK, back to game play - apply the following very simple rules:
    • If you fly-out and crash for whatever reason, you lose that 'life' i.e. you lose a spawn as if you lost your ground unit.
    • If you make it back to wherever safely, or successfully bail out, you magically get back into your ground unit, presuming it hasn't already been destroyed - otherwise - bad luck, you lose the unit/spawn.
  • As a bit of an aside, always have a rapid firing AAA in your line up regardless of BR. I have 'killed' many BR 4 to 5 aircraft with my humble quad maxim Gaz truck. I would have absolutely no chance of actually shooting down the enemy a/c, but one hit is enough to get an assist on a suiciding a/c or even a kill if you're the only one to hit it. I would put my tally in the hundreds using this method. If the a/c didn't suicide, this wouldn't work, so that could be another incentive to get back alive.

I think this would be entirely workable, simple and effective. 

 

As far as spawn camping, I don't think there is really much that can be done - teams just have to value their spawn more highly. There is already the 'invulnerability' timer of however many seconds when you spawn in which gives you the opportunity to deal with spawn campers on the ground. The only potential improvement I could see here would be to perhaps modify the invulnerability so that it doesn't cancel when you move - that would give a real opportunity to escape from timed detonation bombs and help stop a/c dropping bombs timed to detonate just as the invulnerability expires - i.e. run awayyyyy....quickly...in the manner of brave brave Sir Robyn when facing the holy hand grenade (one for the Python fans). This could remove the catch 22 of spawning in in front of an enemy tank, at the same time as the spawn point is bombed - you have to move to avoid the bombs, but remain still to have a chance against the tank.

 

Sorry to spam you all with this lengthy diatribe, but it is a game dynamic I am very keen to see changed.

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On 09/10/2016 at 6:08 AM, Lord_Tao said:

 

 

I guess I should clarify:  It doesn't seem that fighters escorting or intercepting bombers in these missions and crash and damage tanks.  There is still a huge problem, but it seems that you can't (or at least it is extremely difficult) to get a kill by ramming with a fighter.

 

Yes we can. Today, I killed, and have been killed, by escort fighters ramming into AA. In tier 3.

No doubt, it work.

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I agree Heavily to Mr Hoppy53!

 

Take out a ground vehicle the time the flyer dies, or even better - if you fly, you are loosing one vehicle at all times! 

No flyer, except the kamikaze, died on purpose attacking anything.

Where has the common sense gone? Get rid of the nuisance.

 

Rgds 

 

 

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For a long time I didn't write anything in this forum, I need to admit..for a long time I didn't spent any attention to this game either.

 

I'm a veteran from beta times where you were able to purchase planes according to your national level. I did the ground forces beta and left then for more then 3 years as it was impossible to play tier 4 or higher after the ground forces have been released.

 

Recently with some friends I returned to this game after I got again some fun in flying..and now also enjoy tank games again here...of cause after some time ;)

First I got really annoyed by these crashy crashy nooby nooby behavior, but I need to say sometimes this is quite some good weapon against spawn campers. I need to admit if I see a spawn camper I use that tactic...he annoys me and my team...so do I by crashing into him and releasing bombs or rockets just a second before. He will rage...he will vomit...but as my team is doing the same by the other tactic its just legit.

 

I would like to see this feature gone from the game..but it's not that easy as its sounds. I know times when you could spawn unlimited times or as much you have crews for tanks (like in Planes AB) I'm not sure which system is better..but currently it seems there is no change in short term coming. So best would be to just accept it and not to do it yourself...beside in such occasions if the other team is also extensively using foul tactics.

 

Yes its not nice to pay back with the same foul tactics...but maybe the only thing which might cure some people at least.

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My suggestion has been that if people take out planes in AB you set the timer for 1 min and they don't get any rewards for what they kill/do unless the plane survives those whole 60 seconds. Then most people would not kamikaze and you would keep the spirit of the mechanic

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12 hours ago, *FORDcobraGT500 said:

My suggestion has been that if people take out planes in AB you set the timer for 1 min and they don't get any rewards for what they kill/do unless the plane survives those whole 60 seconds. Then most people would not kamikaze and you would keep the spirit of the mechanic

 

i like the idea , do you have link to the suggestion ?

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Posted (edited)

My idea : someone bringing just one plane can use a plane along ABGF, but he wouldn't use his own plane, rather the assigned one, and his OWN plane's br should be atleast 2 br away from his top tank br.

 

And no plane means no plane

 

Also, surviving pilots should have a reward for the match, example a 3 second invincibility for those who fly for 60 second. This isn't really necessary but people tend to look at some short-lived invincibility more than cash or RP

Edited by Baka_9_Cirno
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Getting killed by suicide planes can be frustrating. One remedy could be that if the plane is has not been damaged when the final impact is made they can't kill anyone on impact. This will stop someone getting into a plane and going directly into a suicide mission. Another fix could be that the crashing of a bomber can never kill anyone, this is historic because bombers were never used in that manner.

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The endless kamikaze lawn darting is the reason I no longer take out SPAA.  Most are subject to hull break, and once you take a shot at a plane you become the immediate target of the lawn darts.  And I'm not the only one either.  I used to see a lot of SPAA in game.  Now I maybe see one every three games.  And the lack of SPAA now makes any open top near useless as your crew will die to aircraft MG.  And these aren't "kamikaze" attacks.  In a kamikaze attack there was a conscious decision to sacrifice a plane and crew to take out a target that was deemed more valuable than the plane and pilot.  Given that the lawn dart looses nothing, it's more like a remote control guided missile.  It's the economy of it that needs to change.  Loosing a plane should cost the flyer the repair cost of the plane and they should lose crew equal to that on the plane they were flying.  Or it could just be they lose 1 for a fighter, 2 for an attacker, 4 for a bomber. 

 

Or, if the flyer doesn't survive, they lose their vehicle.  With perhaps the possible exceptions of:

  1. They were pilot sniped
  2. Their plane was damaged and they J out.  Of course, the plane would have to do no further damage once they press the J key or they could simply climb, point straight down at their target, then hold the J key. 

IMO, lawn darting is as dastardly a game event as a TK. 

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Why not just remove aircraft from AB?I for one wont miss them.people usually lose their tank while in air and the habit of using them to kami is happening.f109s don't carry rockets yet one killed my tiger II by kami.Just get rid of aircraft in AB.People don't kami in RB because it costs lions to repair their plane.

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