GrandMoffTano

Ship Tree Speculation

1 hour ago, SqnLdrAhsokaTano said:

We've talked about BB's, but not the other classes, DD and CL/CA. CV would be an interesting discussion point too.

 

 

Top US Destroyer will most likely be the Forrest Sherman-class, armed with 3 single mount 5"/54 Mark 42, 4 3"/50 Mark 33, 2 Mark 10/11 Hedgehogs and 4 533mm Torpedo Tubes.

 

Uss_Hull_DD-945.jpg

Seems a bit weak in the offensive armament department. Maybe not. The guns could fire up to 40 RPM. I wonder if ships will also go up to the 70s.

Edited by WulfPack
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I'd love to get hands on a Forrest Sherman, but here is a more interesting and harder question: What would be at the front of a Destroyer line for the US?

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Seeing the Daring class destroyer would be good.

Could have the HMAS Vampire as a nice premium ship too (With accompanied pet sub HMAS Onslow :DD)

 

6x 4.5" Mk5 guns, with a rate of fire of 16rpm, and an effective range of about 16.4km

For torps, the early models had 2 quad launchers, while the Vampire would have a single quintuple mount. Both 21" torps

HMAS-Vampire-D11-01.jpg

Could fit into the game, even if they don't want to add big ships.

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7 hours ago, WulfPack said:

Seems a bit weak in the offensive armament department. Maybe not. The guns could fire up to 40 RPM. I wonder if ships will also go up to the 70s.

not only 40RPM but also that are one of strongest guns put on destroyer (range/penetration and firing mass per minute), add to that 4x 3"/50 capable of firing at 50RPM and also having AP round (destroyers and small craft beware)

Gearing class have similar firepower but use older 5"/38 with have less range and penetration.

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7 minutes ago, arczer25 said:

not only 40RPM but also that are one of strongest guns put on destroyer (range/penetration and firing mass per minute), add to that 4x 3"/50 capable of firing at 50RPM and also having AP round (destroyers and small craft beware)

Gearing class have similar firepower but use older 5"/38 with have less range and penetration.

She's a hunter killer by all respects.

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7 hours ago, SqnLdrAhsokaTano said:

We've talked about BB's, but not the other classes, DD and CL/CA. CV would be an interesting discussion point too.

 

I composed a list of progression for Japanese carriers prior to boats. It's entirely chronological (as I mentioned in other posts, Gaijin usually organizes by chonological order, then attempts to balance everything out through the Battle Rating system, though they've been doing it less and less recently). Recently I did the same for Japanese seaplane tenders/carriers in a separate line.

 

Aircraft Carriers

 

Hōshō (?) → Akagi (fleet) → Kaga (fleet) → Ryūjō (light) → Sōryū (fleet) → Hiryū (fleet) → Zuihō-class (light) → Shōkaku-class (fleet) → Hiyō-class (fleet) → Chitose-class (light) → Taihō (fleet) → Unryū-class (fleet) → Shinano (support)

 

Missing in my lineup is the Taiyō-class (escort), Ryūhō (light), Shin'yo (escort), and Kaiyō (escort), mostly because I'm unsure of their placement.

 

Seaplane Tenders

 

Kamoi → Chitose-class → Mizuho → Nisshin → Akitsushima


Missing here is the Kamikawa Maru-class, of which four of five cargo ships were converted into Seaplane Tenders. They seem to be an oddity.

 

Some additional notes...

  • Hiryū was intended as a sister ship to the Sōryū, but the design was modified (mostly as a result of the Fourth Fleet Incident). Hiryū was a meter wider at its beam, 2,000 tons heavier, and had its island placed on the left side and farther aft on her flight deck.
  • Submarine Tender Taigei's conversion to a light aircraft carrier (Ryūhō) was not considered very successful as it was slow and suffered from weak construction among other things, mostly performing aircraft ferrying missions and training duties.
  • The Seaplane Carrier Nisshin's armament included six 14 cm/50 3rd Year Type naval guns in three turrets on the foredeck, giving it similar firepower to a light cruiser.
  • The Chitose-class began their career as seaplane tenders but were later converted into light aircraft carriers.

  • The Unryū-class, intended to be produced in large numbers following Midway, was based off the Hiryū (similar to the Essex-class being based on the Yorktown-class, which proved to be much more successful).
  • Shinano intended to be what was described as a heavily armored support carrier which would carry aircraft, fuel, and ordinance in reserve for other aircraft carriers.

Now, I'd like to look at Japanese cruisers next, but they seem to be full of oddities. They still operated many veterans of the Battle of Tsushima, though most were converted into or reclassified as minelayers, floating barracks, or training ships after participating in early actions (mostly around China). There's also the Chinese light cruiser Ping Hai which was sunk and later salvaged by the Japanese, first acting as the barracks ship Mishima then as the escort vessel Yasoshima in June 1944 (its original armament was replaced with dual purpose and anti-air guns). A few months later it was sunk during the Battle of Leyte Gulf while escorting two merchant ships. Could certainly make an interesting premium.

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Dedicated AA cruisers seem quite interesting now that you bring them up.

In the trailer you could see the big formations of IL-2s, so I wonder how important AA is going to be within the CBT

Cruisers dedicated completely to AA defence would be fun to see.

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9 hours ago, WulfPack said:

Seems a bit weak in the offensive armament department. Maybe not. The guns could fire up to 40 RPM. I wonder if ships will also go up to the 70s.

 

I sincerely doubt it. After the 50s you get huge leaps in guided anti-ship missile technology, to the point that your guns are only used for point defense. ASMs in the 50s were wire-guided and had a range of roughly 12km. By the 60s you had the SS-N-2 or P-15 Termit, which had a range in excess of 80km, with inertial and radar guidance. By the 70s you had the Exocet, Malakhit, and (later on, because the US had no real anti-ship missile until the late 1970s, the harpoon), all with ranges in excess of 100km. Modern anti-ship missiles such as the Klub can range out to 2,500km--or halfway between Japan and Hawaii.

Edited by Nomad_Gaming
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I am afraid that our lord and savior, the IJN did not have any cruiser design which would be sufficient for Tier V. I would even take Takao as late Tier IV, Tone as premium, Ibuki...? She was not finished and is similar to a Mogami-Kai in my view. :) 

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1 hour ago, Maze94 said:

I am afraid that our lord and savior, the IJN did not have any cruiser design which would be sufficient for Tier V. I would even take Takao as late Tier IV, Tone as premium, Ibuki...? She was not finished and is similar to a Mogami-Kai in my view. :) 

Mogami and the incomplete Ibuki would be tier 5

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37 minutes ago, SqnLdrAhsokaTano said:

Mogami and the incomplete Ibuki would be tier 5

Speaking of the Mogami, her late conversion into a partial seaplane tender would be pretty interesting to see.

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2 hours ago, Pappina said:

Speaking of the Mogami, her late conversion into a partial seaplane tender would be pretty interesting to see.

As would her 155mm guns.

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2 hours ago, SqnLdrAhsokaTano said:

Mogami and the incomplete Ibuki would be tier 5

US Tier 5 Cruisers can be bit to strong for them, Baltimore holds advantage in both protection and firepower, and not even talking about later ones (especially auto loading Des Moines)

8 minutes ago, SqnLdrAhsokaTano said:

As would her 155mm guns.

one of most powerful 155mm guns only problem is rate of fire = 5RPM as the powder hoists could supply no more than five bags per minute, with is 2x less then Cleveland class while US 152mm have penetration only little bit lower, even not talking about Worcester class (aircraft nightmare) 152mm with had 12RPM and were also Dual propose.

Edited by arczer25
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As far as the end game Soviet DD is concerned, it would likely be one of the following.

A Project 57 preliminary.

Spoiler

rwpIEDT.jpg

 A planned upgrade to Project 56.

Spoiler

Tt0P1Ya.jpg

A Project 41 preliminary. 

Spoiler

v9cEBnH.jpg

 

Edited by WulfPack
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18 minutes ago, arczer25 said:

US Tier 5 Cruisers can be bit to strong for them, Baltimore holds advantage in both protection and firepower, and not even talking about later ones (especially auto loading Des Moines)

one of most powerful 155mm guns only problem is rate of fire = 5RPM as the powder hoists could supply no more than five bags per minute, with is 2x less then Cleveland class while US 152mm have penetration only little bit lower, even not talking about Worcester class (aircraft nightmare) 152mm with had 12RPM and were also Dual propose.

Might be a bit weak, but it's the best Japan is going to get, and none of the them would be on the same BR Bracket as the Baltimore.

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7 minutes ago, WulfPack said:

As far as the end game Soviet DD is concerned, it would likely be one of the following.

A Project 57 preliminary.

  Reveal hidden contents

rwpIEDT.jpg

 A planned upgrade to Project 56.

  Reveal hidden contents

Tt0P1Ya.jpg

A Project 41 preliminary. 

  Reveal hidden contents

v9cEBnH.jpg

 

What were the planned specs for these vehicles?

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On 13/08/2016 at 9:43 PM, Ghost_Rider12 said:

Lion 4x3 design was the 16E-38 design.

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Just now, SqnLdrAhsokaTano said:

Lion 4x3 design was the 16E-38 design.

Well that settles that.

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1 minute ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Well that settles that.

Pretty much, good thing about the WoWS forums is some people on their know a lot about ship projects from other nations.

Another source other than the WoWS forums: http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/147525#.V7HvTJgrKUk

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13 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

What were the planned specs for these vehicles?

Project 57 preliminary

2 X 3 SM-62 130-mm

4 X 3 ZIF-75 57-mm or SM-20-ZIF 45-mm

2 X 2 2M-3 25-mm

5 X 2 533 torpedoes

Standard displacement was intended to be 3500 tons

456ft x 48.5ft x 14.4ft

Top speed of 36 knots

Project 56 upgrade

Same as Project 56 just with her guns replaced with the SM-62

Project 41 preliminary 

2 X 3 SM-2-1 130-mm

4 X 2-4 SM-20-ZIF 45-mm

Possibly 4 X 2 4M-120 25-mm

 5 X 1 533-mm torpedoes 

Fully loaded displacement was around 3800 tons

439ft X 44.6ft X 13ft

Top speed of  33.5 knots

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For tier V regia marina can easily put in the Zara cruisers, probably one of the best if not the best until the des moines cruiser class

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Also i checked the Littorio anti air fire output and that claim about being only 4 tons per.minute came from no where. Without 13.2 HMG the output of a littorio in 1943 was around 9.2 ton per minute

To be more accurate

90/50 

( 10 kg shell X 16 ROF X 12 guns)

1920 kg/min

20 mm breda

( 0.34 kg shell X 480 ROF X 32 guns)

5222 kg/mim

37 mm breda

(0.87 kg shell X 120 ROF X 20 guns)

2088 kg/min

 

 

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11 minutes ago, bellezza03 said:

For tier V regia marina can easily put in the Zara cruisers, probably one of the best if not the best until the des moines cruiser class

But the lack of Radar will hinder them a lot, even at Tier 5.

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In 1943 the gorizia the last survivor of the 4 zara cruiser recived GUFO radar

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2 minutes ago, bellezza03 said:

In 1943 the gorizia the last survivor of the 4 zara cruiser recived GUFO radar

Yeah, 1 out of 4 ships. I'd rather take a Town-class, Edinburgh subclass.

 

12 × BL 6-inch (152 mm) Mark XXIII guns (4x3)

12 × QF 4-inch (102 mm) Mark XVI guns (6x2)

16 × QF 2-pounder (40 mm) Mark VIII pom-pom anti-aircraft guns (2x8)

8 × .5-inch (12.7 mm) anti-aircraft machine guns (2x4)

6 × 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes (2x3)

Edited by SqnLdrAhsokaTano
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