Stona

Updated Combined Simulator Battles

15 hours ago, Althix said:

oh yes there is t54-49. doesn't really matter for centurion mk.10. oneshot is always oneshot.

for us it is 80% of winrate as brits.

 

Teams of Maus and cent mk10 do generally quiet well and beat the RUS teams though its not too often that I come up against or play with such teams, often its a mix of t4 tanks on the aliies team which make it hard to win against mostly t54's, I guess it really just depends on the make up of teams.

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1 hour ago, Chris55 said:

 

Teams of Maus and cent mk10 do generally quiet well and beat the RUS teams though its not too often that I come up against or play with such teams, often its a mix of t4 tanks on the aliies team which make it hard to win against mostly t54's, I guess it really just depends on the make up of teams.

 

Doesn't help that USA has the Nightmare-Grind™ to get to any reasonably good Cold War tank (and I'd argue that they don't even have one in the low rank 5 event), while other nations get them far more easily.

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The idea of two event rotations is not bad but you seem to ignore the point that new players are simply not allowed to level the techtree in SB.

What you need is an allways avaliable tier 2-3 event SB, with at least a few selected tier 1 vehicles, that allows you to actually participate and also research vehicles while playing SB for new players.

A few matches in AB/RB to grind tier 1 may be acceptable but everything above that means you force them to play these gamemodes for a way to long time before being able to participate in SB.

This state is especially annoying when an expirienced player wants to introduce a new player to the game and also not the smartest move considering VR players might be interested in your game. 

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Precisely this. The constant ground battles events should be low tiers. 

 

Rank 1 and rank 1-2 switching rotation. Compare to cold war rotation. 

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Please add airspawn for jets. I can't take off with a spaded Sabre with payload. 

Edited by mingxia
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6 hours ago, Nebelfeuer said:

The idea of two event rotations is not bad but you seem to ignore the point that new players are simply not allowed to level the techtree in SB.

What you need is an allways avaliable tier 2-3 event SB, with at least a few selected tier 1 vehicles, that allows you to actually participate and also research vehicles while playing SB for new players.

A few matches in AB/RB to grind tier 1 may be acceptable but everything above that means you force them to play these gamemodes for a way to long time before being able to participate in SB.

This state is especially annoying when an expirienced player wants to introduce a new player to the game and also not the smartest move considering VR players might be interested in your game. 

So instead of giving the top tier battles every day like now, to people who has the top tier tanks and so have at least SOME understanding of the game and tanks, you want to take that away from experienced people and give the constant event to the bunch of newcomers for whom RB\SB is almost the same mode, only in SB they usually TK 2 allies and get kicked. No, the SB is not for "oh I just installed the game" crowd, a certain level of experience is required to play that without ruining the day for the rest of the people in the battle, so once every 2-3 days is exactly enough for newbs to take a look at what it is, get yelled a lot because he kills friendlies, then he can go back to RB and start learning what you need to know to play SB. In the mean time I spend a great amount of time getting top tier tanks in each nation, and I want to use them. SB should never be made with "Oh but what about the newbs" idea as core. 

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24 minutes ago, IceDeath said:

So instead of giving the top tier battles every day like now, to people who has the top tier tanks and so have at least SOME understanding of the game and tanks, you want to take that away from experienced people and give the constant event to the bunch of newcomers for whom RB\SB is almost the same mode, only in SB they usually TK 2 allies and get kicked. No, the SB is not for "oh I just installed the game" crowd, a certain level of experience is required to play that without ruining the day for the rest of the people in the battle, so once every 2-3 days is exactly enough for newbs to take a look at what it is, get yelled a lot because he kills friendlies, then he can go back to RB and start learning what you need to know to play SB. In the mean time I spend a great amount of time getting top tier tanks in each nation, and I want to use them. SB should never be made with "Oh but what about the newbs" idea as core. 

Leaving asside that tier V is the most experimental, most papermodel infested, most unbalanced, most simple to aim ( flat trajectories) tier we have and therefore not exactly traditional SB material anyway....

...yes, I definitely think that allowing people to play and progress in the gamemode mode they want play from the get go is more important then creating an elite playground.

Nothing wrong with doing both but, if there is a decision to be made it has to be in favour of the "new"(though one could question that term is it includes 4 of 5 avaliable tier) players.

 

The most severe problems SB has is lack of players due to it's rotation restrictions aka the inability of players to participate because they lack the required vehicles amplified by the fact that even if they have a required vehicle it is probably not the one suited for fast techtree progression, thus keeping them even longer in this undesireable position.

 

And just to put your time investment against "the newbs" line of thought into perspective: From a buisness standpoint it is indeed "the newbs" that are more inportant to entertain since they are the ones bringing in fresh revenue. One may not like it, but it's a fact.

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52 minutes ago, IceDeath said:

So instead of giving the top tier battles every day like now, to people who has the top tier tanks and so have at least SOME understanding of the game and tanks, you want to take that away from experienced people and give the constant event to the bunch of newcomers for whom RB\SB is almost the same mode, only in SB they usually TK 2 allies and get kicked. No, the SB is not for "oh I just installed the game" crowd, a certain level of experience is required to play that without ruining the day for the rest of the people in the battle, so once every 2-3 days is exactly enough for newbs to take a look at what it is, get yelled a lot because he kills friendlies, then he can go back to RB and start learning what you need to know to play SB. In the mean time I spend a great amount of time getting top tier tanks in each nation, and I want to use them. SB should never be made with "Oh but what about the newbs" idea as core. 

wrong sir - many people come into WT with other games experience. For example - if I logged hundreds of hours in ARMA which si much more realistic than WT in all aspects when it comes to ground combat, should I still play AB? Do not make idiots out of people and do not make SB an "Elite club" - this do not work in long run.

If we give everyday access to low rank battles in SB people will learn faster and less people will migrate to higher ranks with little experience. Some will but some will prefer to polish their skills in lower rank before moving up (like me for example). Now no matter what they want to do if they want to play everyday they have to rush through the tech tree

 

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Can't believe the new rotation has been up for a few days only and people are already asking for those permanent rank 5 events we had been asking for for ages so we could play those hard to spade vehicles more than once in a fortnight to be taken down again. I mean people come on...

 

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38 minutes ago, Nebelfeuer said:

Leaving asside that tier V is the most experimental, most papermodel infested, most unbalanced, most simple to aim ( flat trajectories) tier we have and therefore not exactly traditional SB material anyway....

...yes, I definitely think that allowing people to play and progress in the gamemode mode they want play from the get go is more important then creating an elite playground.

Nothing wrong with doing both but, if there is a decision to be made it has to be in favour of the "new"(though one could question that term is it includes 4 of 5 avaliable tier) players.

 

The most severe problems SB has is lack of players due to it's rotation restrictions aka the inability of players to participate because they lack the required vehicles amplified by the fact that even if they have a required vehicle it is probably not the one suited for fast techtree progression, thus keeping them even longer in this undesireable position.

 

And just to put your time investment against "the newbs" line of thought into perspective: From a buisness standpoint it is indeed "the newbs" that are more inportant to entertain since they are the ones bringing in fresh revenue. One may not like it, but it's a fact.

Your idea of SB material is different from mine. SB is already elite playground, new people only TK and leave. Why the decision for a "new" players have to be made ? Reasons ? 

SB lacks players because AB is the most popular mode, most people unable\unwilling to stress their brain in the evening with "thinking" on how to properly play, most people just want markers.

You can progress in SB pretty nicely now with new system, dont forget that you also need air together with that tank, so might as well spend some time leveling AF tree, but playing sim only from tier I ? That is not a real thing, the amount of information you have to obtain is just way too much. Who told you that "newbs" pay more ? It is actually old experienced player who put in much more real money into the game, we have top tier tanks and many people cant be bothered to grind the new ATGMs or what ever else, people buy premiums for collection etc., so I would think that old player brind much more money, and Tier V brings the most amount of money to GJ for sure (be it buying tier IV prems to grind tier V, or just buying tier V tanks or modules for them).

 

35 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

wrong sir - many people come into WT with other games experience. For example - if I logged hundreds of hours in ARMA which si much more realistic than WT in all aspects when it comes to ground combat, should I still play AB? Do not make idiots out of people and do not make SB an "Elite club" - this do not work in long run.

If we give everyday access to low rank battles in SB people will learn faster and less people will migrate to higher ranks with little experience. Some will but some will prefer to polish their skills in lower rank before moving up (like me for example). Now no matter what they want to do if they want to play everyday they have to rush through the tech tree

 

You can be as experienced in ARMA as you want, does not stop me or any other good player eating you alive in any SB match any time of the day :dntknw: This is just a different game with different mechanics, you wont know even half of the quirks in mechanics, some things are just there for no reason, some things might not work in the most logical way etc etc etc, you can come from Steel Beasts or ARMA, I dont care you still will be very bad, may be you will learn quicker, but you still have to learn and doing that in SB is a bad idea for you and for people unfortunate enough to get into the battle with you. At the very least you HAVE to learn how each tank in game looks like from different angles in different lighting, that alone takes a while. Having low tier sim event every day is just a waste when on the other hand the complaints was that on Tier V events many people cant play ? So here we go tier V is moved into a separate event, may be the 7.0 event can also go to that separate section, but in general the tier I event is a mess to play, team kills every where, SPAAs ruling the everything (that is probably the only thing that new player can understand in a low level event in SB "be very very very afraid of the german SPAA"). Exactly what skills will you polish in the tier I\2 events every day ? Just give a roadmap of skills you would expect to improve upon while playing in a enviroment that can be found ONLY on those low tiers ? 

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17 minutes ago, IceDeath said:

You can be as experienced in ARMA as you want, does not stop me or any other good player eating you alive in any SB match any time of the day :dntknw: This is just a different game with different mechanics, you wont know even half of the quirks in mechanics, some things are just there for no reason, some things might not work in the most logical way etc etc etc, you can come from Steel Beasts or ARMA, I dont care you still will be very bad, may be you will learn quicker, but you still have to learn and doing that in SB.

And you've been SB hero from the very start right? I won't waste time arguing as you clearly feel superior to anyone in there. I feel sad for you ... cheers mate :salute:

Edited by przybysz86
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10 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

And you've been SB hero from the very start right? I won't waste time arguing as you clearly feel superior to anyone in there. I feel sad for you ... cheers mate :salute:

No sure I wasnt, I sucked bad at the start like everyone else. But those were different times, most people sucked those days as it was the time when tanks were only introduced to the game, the tank gameplay was completely different back then. 

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We were discussing the gamemode, icedeath comes in, and the whole thing goes ad hominem again. 

 

IceDeath, your opinion has probably been noted. If you would now disappear again and take your walls of rabble with you, so there is room for others to voice their equally important opinion, many will supposedly be pleased. 

This is almost as bad as some certain duck enthusiast coming in and posting 3 pages about "groundpounding". 

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14 minutes ago, Fenris_wolf said:

We were discussing the gamemode, icedeath comes in, and the whole thing goes ad hominem again. 

 

IceDeath, your opinion has probably been noted. If you would now disappear again and take your walls of rabble with you, so there is room for others to voice their equally important opinion, many will supposedly be pleased. 

This is almost as bad as some certain duck enthusiast coming in and posting 3 pages about "groundpounding". 

I`m discussing the gamemode, where did you found ad hominem ?

I just happen not to share the "oh lets do everything for newbs" idea in a mode where the only thing newbs achieve is team killing, but I seem to remember you saying that you team kill in SB on purpoise, so I guess I understand why you are displeased.

Edited by IceDeath
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29 minutes ago, IceDeath said:

I just happen not to share the "oh lets do everything for newbs" idea in a mode where the only thing newbs achieve is team killing,

The old guys will eventually fade away and from experience SB is not RB+ but rather RB is AB+ and people will not flow painlessly from RB to SB. many of the guys who TK you have experience in RB but habit to shoot any unmarked tank is too strong sometimes.
No matter how you put it guys new to SB are new to SB and will be bad at it at first (ok, maybe not all would be bad but most won't be good).  The only way to keep SB community growing is to allow smooth transition. This smooth transition is rank 1 SB Mixed event that should be more available to all who want to play. in EC for example most guys who want to move from RB to SB would do so in EC1 or EC2 - even if they have lot of experience in RB.  Why? Because they know they need transition period. Sure some guys would jump straight into rank 5 but you can't do anything about that.

 

To sum things up - we need low rank battles and we need them more often (preferably every day) or people will be forced to learn their SB way in rank 3-5 which is stupid. It might be annoying to be TKed driving a BT5 but it's damn infuriating when teammate kill your Leopard or Chieftain.

Edited by przybysz86
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8 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

The old guys will eventually fade away and from experience SB is not RB+ but rather RB is AB+ and people will not flow painlessly from RB to SB. many of the guys who TK you have experience in RB but habit to shoot any unmarked tank is too strong sometimes.
No matter how you put it guys new to SB are new to SB and will be bad at it at first (ok, maybe not all would be bad but most won't be good).  The only way to keep SB community growing is to allow smooth transition. This smooth transition is rank 1 SB Mixed event that should be more available to all who want to play. in EC for example most guys who want to move from RB to SB would do so in EC1 or EC2 - even if they have lot of experience in RB.  Why? Because they know they need transition period. Sure some guys would jump straight into rank 5 but you can't do anything about that.

 

To sum things up - we need low rank battles and we need them more often (preferably every day) or people will be forced to learn their SB way in rank 3-5 which is stupid. It might be annoying to be TKed driving a BT5 but it's damn infuriating when teammate kill your Leopard or Chieftain.

 

Agreed, it doesn't do any good raising the bar for SB entry... there Need to be an outlet for new Players where they can learn and get used to SB.

 

You don't want new Players to suck? well teach them not to... like the learning Sim Sundays just for tanks.

 

Shouldn't be too hard, tanks are still rather easymode in SB.

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8 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

The old guys will eventually fade away and from experience SB is not RB+ but rather RB is AB+ and people will not flow painlessly from RB to SB. many of the guys who TK you have experience in RB but habit to shoot any unmarked tank is too strong sometimes.
No matter how you put it guys new to SB are new to SB and will be bad at it at first (ok, maybe not all would be bad but most won't be good).  The only way to keep SB community growing is to allow smooth transition. This smooth transition is rank 1 SB Mixed event that should be more available to all who want to play. in EC for example most guys who want to move from RB to SB would do so in EC1 or EC2 - even if they have lot of experience in RB.  Why? Because they know they need transition period. Sure some guys would jump straight into rank 5 but you can't do anything about that.

 

To sum things up - we need low rank battles and we need them more often (preferably every day) or people will be forced to learn their SB way in rank 3-5 which is stupid. It might be annoying to be TKed driving a BT5 but it's damn infuriating when teammate kill your Leopard or Chieftain.

Everybody is bad when they start, some might be worse or a bit better, but in general it is a given that when you start you are bad. This game has no real tutorial and a huge amount of mechanics that might not make a perfect sense, I experienced that when watched some very good gamers in general with additional experience from WoT and AW tried to play WT to see what it is, and the amount of question these guys had that just seemed a second nature to me, like the very basic question of ammo types, turns out that those icons at the bottom of the screen only make sense when you played the game already, not for a new guy, same with round description, what is APCR ? How is it different ? Why cant I kill this tank, I shoot and pen him but he wont die (the good ol shooting at the same spot over and over) ? This and lots lots lots more things first have to be understood by the player before he can start thinking about stuff like positioning, proper shooting with parallax in mind, IDing properly tanks without markers etc. Im my mind it is much easier to teach player ALL of the basics in RB + how tanks look like + allow player to find his preferred play style and THEN switch to SB, player will just have to learn the tanks ID procedure, not EVERYTHING + ID. 

Playing in SB tier I event and thinking that THIS is what SB about is the same like fly EC I and expect that Bi-planes game play is in any way representative of what you see in mono wing aircraft, it is absolutely pointless.   

Tiger I event is the perfect place to be in order to understand the reality of SB, the event has all the necessary vehicles to allow player to get a feel of what is going on, you have good TDs in the form of SU-85 (traditional), M18 (fast, light armor, high RoF platform), Tiger I (lost its place due to addition of Panther D, but still this is Tiger), Panther D (kinda medium that is more like heavy in reality, great armor but turret can be penned and easy prey to flank attacks), Comet I (more for a hardcore people honestly, but if someone wants the challenge of killing Panther with APDS this is available, 2kph reverse kinda makes every single duel a make it in 1 shot or die scenario), T-34-85 (the not so armored but still can bounce some medium, bad pen with good post pen, has to flank to win honestly).

If anyone wants to see what SB is about you dont go to tier I event, you go to Tiger I event (and honestly before you get to 5.* area of tanks you still have no clue even about the basic mechanics).

In EC you go to III to see what it is actually about, not in I or II. 

Now lets just consider the time requirements.

To get where I am now it took me about 2 years (I dont exactly remember when I started to really actively play WT GF), that is pretty much all the GF there is (not counting a couple that is left, mostly soviet tanks, I just hate playing them), that is 2 years to have spaded Chief, Leo, M60 and other stuff, and you are saying that I should be able to play this no more than 1 per week ? 

You have now 6 lower level events, 

tier I available to any player as soon as account is created

tier I-II available in 1 hour of playing

tier II-III same as previous, 1 hour and you can get into this event at the base level, that is still very capable tanks like T-50, Pz IIIs and IVs starting with very easy to obtain IV F2.

So 3 out of 6 events are in the space of 1 hour you can start playing, what is the problem ? Do you see the difference between creating more chaos (and tier I and II events are NOTHING if not chaos, not representative of the game in any way shape of form) and allowing people who actually dedicated a bunch of time for this game to play what they earned ? 

28 minutes ago, DerGrafVonZahl said:

 

Agreed, it doesn't do any good raising the bar for SB entry... there Need to be an outlet for new Players where they can learn and get used to SB.

 

You don't want new Players to suck? well teach them not to... like the learning Sim Sundays just for tanks.

 

Shouldn't be too hard, tanks are still rather easymode in SB.

And you have more than enough of the "outlet" in the form of full 3 events.

Hm, that is not exactly my responsibility to teach newbs is it ? All I want is to be allowed playing my top tier tanks without waiting 1 week for the event just for it to be spoiled by sudden internet problems on my end by bad weather (happened yesterday). 

But since it is easymode, why dont you teach some people how to play ? Because from trying to explain how to be a better player to a couple of my clan mates, I can tell you there is nothing "easymode" about it. 

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14 minutes ago, IceDeath said:

 

And you have more than enough of the "outlet" in the form of full 3 events.

Hm, that is not exactly my responsibility to teach newbs is it ? All I want is to be allowed playing my top tier tanks without waiting 1 week for the event just for it to be spoiled by sudden internet problems on my end by bad weather (happened yesterday). 

But since it is easymode, why dont you teach some people how to play ? Because from trying to explain how to be a better player to a couple of my clan mates, I can tell you there is nothing "easymode" about it. 

 

New Players don't have all the tanks available... so a daily Tier one Event would be welcomed. Some Players get to WT to Play sim not an Arcade game (well... with GF that's arguably not what they get though).

 

It's not ypur responsibility... but if you complain about Aces, but don't do anything about it even though you can, you pretty much lose your right to complain. Because you xxxxx but don't care about solving the issue giving the Impression you care more about complaining than solving issues.

 

Well yes driving tanks is easymode... you don't have to work a tank realisticly you get a lot of handholding and helpers. Teaching on the other People isn't easymode... but i never talked about that being easy.

While we are at it i actually do teach new Players... every Monday. But it's a SB Aircraft course and it's in german, but it does cover Ground attack for SB GF... then there is the AoW campaign where i also can be your flight instructor (that is actually more serious and won't just prepare you for Standard WT battles but also historical Radio commands and Navigation as we shut down your "here i am" Marker on the Map).

Then we have a SB tank course wich isn't done by me and then there are the "tank commanders"-campaign Trainers... while i'm not certain how this works as this is fairly new.

 

 

If you want something done right, do it yourself.

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Well yeah the "easymode" about tanks is the control. I can show my grandmother how to drive a tank in WT since all you do is WASD and you don't even have to use manual gears in SB (should be implemented imo) While anyone can drive a tank in SB in the first try, people will never be able to fly planes in the first try, not the second not the third. Hell maybe they never will.

 

Fighting is something else. But that's not controlling a tank, that's just tactic etc. That's why controlling a tank is easymode compared to planes.

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3 minutes ago, Christoph27 said:

Well yeah the "easymode" about tanks is the control. I can show my grandmother how to drive a tank in WT since all you do is WASD and you don't even have to use manual gears in SB (should be implemented imo) While anyone can drive a tank in SB in the first try, people will never be able to fly planes in the first try, not the second not the third. Hell maybe they never will.

 

Fighting is something else. But that's not controlling a tank, that's just tactic etc. That's why controlling a tank is easymode compared to planes.

 

Exactly, while in real life it's still easier than flying a plane it isn't as simple and inuitive than Gaijin makes it out to be. It's pretty much similar to WASD controls and real driving.... well actually a Little more complex as WW2 tanks had weit controls (the Tigers turret ring was controlled by pedals).

 

But yeah Basic tanking isn't portrayed by Gaijin at all.. and the game still holds your Hand way too much even in SB (wich is a shame, but also makes the thought of SB GF elitism rather ridiculous to me).

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The reason i cant take "SB GF" seriously, is that there is nothing "SB" about it. It's just RB GF with a little less FoV

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