Northman505

Are British Tanks Good?

4 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

Again I disagree I see British teams winning more then not,  especially vs Russian tanks.   I find Russian tanks the easiest to kill usually. 

 

Can confirm, as the crew compartments are much smaller. My sabot rounds sometimes finish off all the crew + the gun breech within the T44's turret with a shot into the front of the mantlet.

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The English tree is the shame of gaijin gaming entertainment company!
Just think how frustrated people leave and do not spend money on English as it would for others!

I'm now start rank 4!

Great delusion for caernarvron!!

Hope next tanks are better

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9 hours ago, haseebafandi said:

is it mostly due to cramped crew compartments ??

Think it's a few things.  Cramped crew,  fewer obstructions frontally  on Russian tanks to o strict the shrapnel from spreading through the tanks and in most cases the armour can be penetrated from any angle any place with British guns on top of that your reload is so much faster.   I just fin Russians so easy to kill. 

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With the achilles, which shell type does the most shrapnel damage..? Obviously the APCBC has the best pen, but is it always the best round to use? I've heard APC is even better for shrapnel, which would make sense from a balancing perspective, but seems counterintuitive as the APCBC should have more metal bits on the front of the shell to cause shrapnel.. Is there any need to take anything other than APCBC? 

 

And with HE, even when firing at Flak 88's it seems to be next to useless if the gun is facing you.. is there any need to take HE ever?

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5 hours ago, EE51555 said:

With the achilles, which shell type does the most shrapnel damage..? Obviously the APCBC has the best pen, but is it always the best round to use? I've heard APC is even better for shrapnel, which would make sense from a balancing perspective, but seems counterintuitive as the APCBC should have more metal bits on the front of the shell to cause shrapnel.. Is there any need to take anything other than APCBC? 

 

And with HE, even when firing at Flak 88's it seems to be next to useless if the gun is facing you.. is there any need to take HE ever?

I personally only take the best penetrating ammo with my british tanks,  I experimented with the other ammo and i didnt find it was any better at killing so i take the best pen value every time. HE is pointless in my personal opinion. fire your 17 pdr into the gun breach and hose it down with mg fire, follow up with the main gun to the crew if its still not dead.

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On 12/12/2016 at 9:50 AM, Helikaon_Golden said:

 

Can confirm, as the crew compartments are much smaller. My sabot rounds sometimes finish off all the crew + the gun breech within the T44's turret with a shot into the front of the mantlet.

 

Just as well, I get a lot of sabot rounds that mysteriously fail to pen, even when it's just firing into the front without any significant angling.  The RNG aspect of sloped armor is incredibly frustrating.  I'd much rather ricochet be a "either it ricochets always or never" and then have tanks that rely on sloped armor get their BR reduced if necessary, but that's neither here nor there.

 

We can all talk about how we see British win a lot or we see the British lose a lot, but that's all just anecdotal.  What we can actually do fruitfully is discuss the merits of the tanks.  And I just can't see the merits in any of them before 6.0.  Even in situations where the extra pen is great, it's incredibly unreliable; I can't tell you how many times I've failed to pen Tigers and Panthers even with the Comet's APDS, much less the Firefly (which always seems to get uptiered).

 

And don't tell me "oh, just get good."  If I just needed to get good then why can I dominate with other nation's tanks, and what reward would mastering British tanking give me?  Not much of anything, really, when APHE is so reliably one-shot lethality, and APDS is only if you're absolutely perfect with it, and even that's tenuous.

 

No amount of skill will compensate for your supposedly awesomely penetrative APDS just bouncing, or only turning an ammo rack yellow.

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Great in Tier 1-2, until tier 3 the solid AP shells and thin armor is hard grind. 

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5 hours ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

Just as well, I get a lot of sabot rounds that mysteriously fail to pen, even when it's just firing into the front without any significant angling.  The RNG aspect of sloped armor is incredibly frustrating.  I'd much rather ricochet be a "either it ricochets always or never" and then have tanks that rely on sloped armor get their BR reduced if necessary, but that's neither here nor there.

 

We can all talk about how we see British win a lot or we see the British lose a lot, but that's all just anecdotal.  What we can actually do fruitfully is discuss the merits of the tanks.  And I just can't see the merits in any of them before 6.0.  Even in situations where the extra pen is great, it's incredibly unreliable; I can't tell you how many times I've failed to pen Tigers and Panthers even with the Comet's APDS, much less the Firefly (which always seems to get uptiered).

 

And don't tell me "oh, just get good."  If I just needed to get good then why can I dominate with other nation's tanks, and what reward would mastering British tanking give me?  Not much of anything, really, when APHE is so reliably one-shot lethality, and APDS is only if you're absolutely perfect with it, and even that's tenuous.

 

No amount of skill will compensate for your supposedly awesomely penetrative APDS just bouncing, or only turning an ammo rack yellow.

brits generally have the best reload, best penetration, highest velocity rounds, best gun depression all of which make them amazingly and flanking and hull down engagements.  the heavies have great armour and the cruisers at least early on have good speed and handle well.  The only negatives they have cositently is the post pen damage but it can be compensated for by learning where to shoot for maximum effect.

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54 minutes ago, Razielkaine said:

brits generally have the best reload, best penetration, highest velocity rounds, best gun depression all of which make them amazingly and flanking and hull down engagements.  the heavies have great armour and the cruisers at least early on have good speed and handle well.  The only negatives they have cositently is the post pen damage but it can be compensated for by learning where to shoot for maximum effect.

They have about the same gun depression as the US. Penetration doesn't mean much when you have a poorly damage output and will generally require at least 2 shots to kill so alot of assists are to be expected. And no theirs heavies are honestly pretty bad. Have really only have the churchills chieftain is great hull down when normal shells ate involved 

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Churchill gun carriage is a beast as is the mk3 and 7 and black prince. Tortoise is a God caernarvon is also very very good. Chieftain is very nice. 

 

Penetration means a lot when it means you can target any part of an enemy tank and almost completely ignore the armour thickness or angle. 

 

As I have already said most tanks can be one shot even with British ammo you just need to learn what is most effective in going so.   Again as I have said pick your targets,  if you can't one shot it take out it's breach then gunner.   A shot to a turret usually stunns the crew and your reload is usually fast enough to follow up with shots to the gunner then loader if they are still alive. 

 

I should add the British gun depression is in most part in a league of it's own allowing it to use terrain other tankers can't.   Britain have the best depression over all the other nations at every tier/br.  

 

I also forgot to add Britain also have the best gun stabilization in the game.   The game mechanics for this are seen in it's ability to stop and respond accurately quicker then other nations tanks something that makes me despise German from the panther through to the end of tier 4.

Edited by Razielkaine
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42 minutes ago, *Lightening_Drake said:

They have about the same gun depression as the US. Penetration doesn't mean much when you have a poorly damage output and will generally require at least 2 shots to kill so alot of assists are to be expected. And no theirs heavies are honestly pretty bad. Have really only have the churchills chieftain is great hull down when normal shells ate involved 

 

Yeah, penetration doesn't mean much...

 

I will rather choose to play a Comet with APDS than a M46 with APCBC nuke shell in a 6.7 match. I will rather choose to play a Centurion Mk.3 with APDS rather than a Tiger II with APCBC in a 7.3 match.

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2 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

brits generally have the best reload, best penetration, highest velocity rounds, best gun depression all of which make them amazingly and flanking and hull down engagements.  the heavies have great armour and the cruisers at least early on have good speed and handle well.  The only negatives they have cositently is the post pen damage but it can be compensated for by learning where to shoot for maximum effect.

 

Okay, a reasonable reply.  But here's the thing: their reload is only faster by a small amount (generally fractions of a second compared to things like the German 50mm and 75mm) and while their penetration is technically better, it's not better by much and it's actually inferior compared to equal BR weapons using APCR rounds.  High velocity makes hitting moving targets easier, but I don't see how much value that could possibly be when it's already fairly simple to hit with anything faster than 600m/s (most guns).  And ranges in this game are so tiny that you'll rarely get into situations where it's of much value; not to mention the fact you need to get on points to capture them means it's just not that useful.

 

Good gun depression is indeed valuable, until you consider things like the Firefly which have an abysmal -5.  And the heavies... well, I don't really know how you can say their heavies have great armor considering anything at their BR can pen their blocky, flat hulls with their APCR.  The Matilda is routinely demolished by the P4 F2 it often gets paired up against.  Plus, one must consider how awful their weapons tend to be, whereas things like the M6A1 and the KV-1 get good guns compared to the Churchill's 75mm.

 

And can you really compensate for the post-pen damage?  I don't think so.  Even if you know exactly where to shoot, this generally hinges upon an opponent that doesn't see you.  Which is fine, but this depends on you having the upper hand in every encounter.  You know what other nation benefits from having the element of surprise?  Every single other nation.  When a nation requires you to have surprise, while the others can make do without it, there's a problem, especially when the element of surprise is not often granted (as maps are tiny).

 

And again, you can learn to shoot for maximum effect with APHE.  And when you do, you will oneshot almost every tank.  Why wouldn't you want one-shot lethality even if it means you need to reload faster?

 

The British do have advantages, yes, but I don't feel their advantages are good enough to justify their several crippling drawbacks.

Edited by NikolaiLev
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1 hour ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

... while their penetration is technically better, it's not better by much and it's actually inferior compared to equal BR weapons using APCR rounds....

Almost all british tanks using british guns have superior penetration to their equal br peers.  the number of tanks that use APCR to have superior penetration is so very few. at tier 1 with a quick search only the pzr 3's has superior pen at 2.3 with apcr.   Brits end tier 2 with the best penetration.  comet tops tier 3 with the best penetration.  tier 4 gives thew best penetration to the centurion.  tier 5 brits dont have heat so suffer aty longer ranges for penetration to its piers but it still has a max of 400mm. so up to tier 5 brits have the best penetration in 99% of situations with peers.

1 hour ago, NikolaiLev said:

 High velocity makes hitting moving targets easier, but I don't see how much value that could possibly be when it's already fairly simple to hit with anything faster than 600m/s (most guns).  And ranges in this game are so tiny that you'll rarely get into situations where it's of much value; not to mention the fact you need to get on points to capture them means it's just not that useful.

Velocity accounts for more then hitting moving targets. higher velocity means better ease of first hit at further ranges as bullet drop is much much less.  it also means there is less chamce the enemy can respont to your shot and angle/deflect or dodge the incoming round.  these mean all the difference when first hit usually means the kill.

1 hour ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

Good gun depression is indeed valuable, until you consider things like the Firefly which have an abysmal -5.

 

There are 35 tanks in the british tree, you named 1.  brits average -14 degrees, that more then any other nation.  when you hull down armour doesnt mean **** when there is a mountain between you and them and all they have is a portion of a turret to hit if they can even see you.

 

1 hour ago, NikolaiLev said:

  And the heavies... well, I don't really know how you can say their heavies have great armor considering anything at their BR can pen their blocky, flat hulls with their APCR.  The Matilda is routinely demolished by the P4 F2 it often gets paired up against.  Plus, one must consider how awful their weapons tend to be, whereas things like the M6A1 and the KV-1 get good guns compared to the Churchill's 75mm.

every tank in the game can be penetrated in this game by man of its peers despite their armour, brits are no different.  matilda is over tiered of that i do not disagree after all its a pre war tank facing off against tanks from '43 and '44.  saying that it still has 75 mm of all round armour making it the heaviest armour in the game at 3.0 except for the churchill gun carrier with 83mm. the churchill my 3 has effective armour of 100-200mm of armour with a little angling coupled with a tonne of spaced armour to chew up shots. how many tanks at 4.0 can reliably penetrate up to 200mm of angled armour?

 

1 hour ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

And can you really compensate for the post-pen damage?  I don't think so.  Even if you know exactly where to shoot, this generally hinges upon an opponent that doesn't see you.  Which is fine, but this depends on you having the upper hand in every encounter.  You know what other nation benefits from having the element of surprise?  Every single other nation.  When a nation requires you to have surprise, while the others can make do without it, there's a problem, especially when the element of surprise is not often granted (as maps are tiny).

yes i believe in most cases you can with knowledge of your enemy, shot placement and reload.  if i dont think i can one shot the enemy i go right for the breach, even if i have to fire thjrough the mantlet because in 99% of cases i easily have the penetration to do so.  now they cant reload and the crew is stunned.  with such fast reloads i can now fire on the gunner so they cant shoot still and thenm the loader. by this time they are almost always dead.

1 hour ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

And again, you can learn to shoot for maximum effect with APHE.  And when you do, you will oneshot almost every tank.  Why wouldn't you want one-shot lethality even if it means you need to reload faster?

who said i would'nt?  I nevber did but what i did say was i can can hull down where others cant, ambush where others cant and reload before they can repair.  As i have said many times here on the forum one shotting is possibnle and can be done reliable with mosty tanks using british rounds you just have to learn where that is.  the shrapnel damage is different to other aphe so the same shots dont always work so you adapt.  solid shot is deadly to a tank where the shrapnel isnt affected by internal modules. so you study tour enemy learn where you get the clearest path to the mosty crew and shoot.  is that more work then firing APHE? yes but its doable and once you figure it out it becomes muscle memory so you dont think about ti anymore.

 

1 hour ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

The British do have advantages, yes, but I don't feel their advantages are good enough to justify their several crippling drawbacks.

Every nation has its crippling disadvantages.  I have every nation at tier 5 and yet I hate playing germany and russia, dont mind americans and LOVE playing my brits.  i love the ability to move around the map and use the terrain, i like my fast reloads and the ability to shoot wherever i want and be reasonably sure my shots will do something and if someone surprises me face to face i know i can stop and shoot first every time (200ping allowing it).

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On 12/14/2016 at 4:59 AM, Razielkaine said:

Almost all british tanks using british guns have superior penetration to their equal br peers.  the number of tanks that use APCR to have superior penetration is so very few. at tier 1 with a quick search only the pzr 3's has superior pen at 2.3 with apcr.   Brits end tier 2 with the best penetration.  comet tops tier 3 with the best penetration.  tier 4 gives thew best penetration to the centurion.  tier 5 brits dont have heat so suffer aty longer ranges for penetration to its piers but it still has a max of 400mm. so up to tier 5 brits have the best penetration in 99% of situations with peers.

Velocity accounts for more then hitting moving targets. higher velocity means better ease of first hit at further ranges as bullet drop is much much less.  it also means there is less chamce the enemy can respont to your shot and angle/deflect or dodge the incoming round.  these mean all the difference when first hit usually means the kill.

There are 35 tanks in the british tree, you named 1.  brits average -14 degrees, that more then any other nation.  when you hull down armour doesnt mean **** when there is a mountain between you and them and all they have is a portion of a turret to hit if they can even see you.

 

every tank in the game can be penetrated in this game by man of its peers despite their armour, brits are no different.  matilda is over tiered of that i do not disagree after all its a pre war tank facing off against tanks from '43 and '44.  saying that it still has 75 mm of all round armour making it the heaviest armour in the game at 3.0 except for the churchill gun carrier with 83mm. the churchill my 3 has effective armour of 100-200mm of armour with a little angling coupled with a tonne of spaced armour to chew up shots. how many tanks at 4.0 can reliably penetrate up to 200mm of angled armour?

 

yes i believe in most cases you can with knowledge of your enemy, shot placement and reload.  if i dont think i can one shot the enemy i go right for the breach, even if i have to fire thjrough the mantlet because in 99% of cases i easily have the penetration to do so.  now they cant reload and the crew is stunned.  with such fast reloads i can now fire on the gunner so they cant shoot still and thenm the loader. by this time they are almost always dead.

who said i would'nt?  I nevber did but what i did say was i can can hull down where others cant, ambush where others cant and reload before they can repair.  As i have said many times here on the forum one shotting is possibnle and can be done reliable with mosty tanks using british rounds you just have to learn where that is.  the shrapnel damage is different to other aphe so the same shots dont always work so you adapt.  solid shot is deadly to a tank where the shrapnel isnt affected by internal modules. so you study tour enemy learn where you get the clearest path to the mosty crew and shoot.  is that more work then firing APHE? yes but its doable and once you figure it out it becomes muscle memory so you dont think about ti anymore.

 

Every nation has its crippling disadvantages.  I have every nation at tier 5 and yet I hate playing germany and russia, dont mind americans and LOVE playing my brits.  i love the ability to move around the map and use the terrain, i like my fast reloads and the ability to shoot wherever i want and be reasonably sure my shots will do something and if someone surprises me face to face i know i can stop and shoot first every time (200ping allowing it).

 

This is the P4 F2's (3.3 br) ammunition:

 

3a0869e928.jpg

 

Compare to its competitor, the Cromwell V:

00a98bd198.jpg

 

In fact, just for fun let's throw in the Cromwell I, at 3.7:

 

e08e1ecdc1.jpg

 

But I'm not done yet!  Let's keep going and compare that 3.3 tank's APCR to the Firefly again!

 

a0e1f1a41d.jpg

 

A 5.0 tank only gets its vaunted "superior penetration" (which is still not that much more pen) at 500meters.  1.7 br.

 

Seriously.  Why do you want British tanks to be so underpowered?  I hope you washed your feet by the way, considering they're gonna be in your mouth.  Did you notice, by the way, that the P4 G's APHE round possesses superior penetration to the Cromwell V's gun?

 

And before you start going on about speed and range advantages, most maps in the game will not have you fighting at a great distance than 500m.  Sure you might be able to fight at long range, but then you're not capping points.  Suddenly having better performance at 2km doesn't matter anymore.

 

I rest my case.  British tanks need decreased BR.

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You have not said anything at all that has me with me with my foot in my mouth. 

 

I don't believe I have once said every single British tank has the best penetration in the game.  Please tell me where I did....   Next I was specific to say British tanks firing British guns the Cromwell mk v uses an American gun calibre with American ammo.  So again I previous post is still 100% correct and I still don't have the taste of feet in my mouth. 

 

Lastly you are comparing apcr ammunition vs apcbc.  What a shocker.  Who would have thought apcr would have better pen. 

 

So now you mention range as a factor.   I have said multiple times use your tanks strengths wherever possible.  That means for brits engage at range...   Honestly what part of what you have said has proven me wrong? 

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2 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

You have not said anything at all that has me with me with my foot in my mouth. 

 

I don't believe I have once said every single British tank has the best penetration in the game.  Please tell me where I did....   Next I was specific to say British tanks firing British guns the Cromwell mk v uses an American gun calibre with American ammo.  So again I previous post is still 100% correct and I still don't have the taste of feet in my mouth. 

 

Lastly you are comparing apcr ammunition vs apcbc.  What a shocker.  Who would have thought apcr would have better pen. 

 

So now you mention range as a factor.   I have said multiple times use your tanks strengths wherever possible.  That means for brits engage at range...   Honestly what part of what you have said has proven me wrong? 

 

On 12/14/2016 at 4:59 AM, Razielkaine said:

Almost all british tanks using british guns have superior penetration to their equal br peers.

 

Do you just not read your own posts?  Either british guns have superior penetration or they don't.  Pick one.

 

APCR having superior penetration to British ammo is critical in that it means that the British have no advantages.  They don't have more penetration.  They have as much, if not inferior. What strengths do they have to compensate?  Superior range and mobility, but when the maps are so small those don't matter.

 

Really it's all beside the point; even if the British did have superior penetration, that just doesn't matter.  As long as you penetrate at all, you're going to kill a tank.  What really matters is having that HE filler, which most nations have, except for Britain.

 

This is incongruous with history because in real life, tank crews usually bail out after penetration.  Plus, in real life, spalling and shot ricochets after penetration on the inside of the tank, causing further havoc; this does not occur in-game.  The end result is British tanks are woefully underpowered.  The solution is, again, to decrease BRs so their reload rate, mobility and armor compensate for their poor first-shot lethality.  Even if we implemented internal ricochet this would still benefit the ammo of other nations, and so British tanks would still have a disadvantage.

 

I should reiterate that this is pertaining largely to tanks of Tier 4 or less; at Tier V everyone is using APDS/HEATFS/HESH besides a few tanks, so it's not nearly as much of an issue.  But especially at tiers 1-3 do these tanks suffer.

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29 minutes ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

 

Do you just not read your own posts?  Either british guns have superior penetration or they don't.  Pick one.

 

APCR having superior penetration to British ammo is critical in that it means that the British have no advantages.  They don't have more penetration.  They have as much, if not inferior. What strengths do they have to compensate?  Superior range and mobility, but when the maps are so small those don't matter.

 

Really it's all beside the point; even if the British did have superior penetration, that just doesn't matter.  As long as you penetrate at all, you're going to kill a tank.  What really matters is having that HE filler, which most nations have, except for Britain.

 

This is incongruous with history because in real life, tank crews usually bail out after penetration.  Plus, in real life, spalling and shot ricochets after penetration on the inside of the tank, causing further havoc; this does not occur in-game.  The end result is British tanks are woefully underpowered.  The solution is, again, to decrease BRs so their reload rate, mobility and armor compensate for their poor first-shot lethality.  Even if we implemented internal ricochet this would still benefit the ammo of other nations, and so British tanks would still have a disadvantage.

 

I should reiterate that this is pertaining largely to tanks of Tier 4 or less; at Tier V everyone is using APDS/HEATFS/HESH besides a few tanks, so it's not nearly as much of an issue.  But especially at tiers 1-3 do these tanks suffer.

do you not have reading comprehension skills?

Quote

Almost all british tanks using british guns have superior penetration to their equal br peers.

Do you own a dictionary? perhaps you should invest in one.

 

Quote

APCR having superior penetration to British ammo is critical in that it means that the British have no advantages.  They don't have more penetration.  They have as much, if not inferior. What strengths do they have to compensate?  Superior range and mobility, but when the maps are so small those don't matter.

a couple of tanks with APCR does not make an entire nation. you need to look at the entire nation's and compare it to their peers. last time i played the entire team has never consisted of Panzer 4's spamming APCR.  beside that people here are complaining solid shot makes britainuseless despite all its other strengths but now you say all germans are superior because a couple have APCR with better pen (but still use the same damage mechanics).

 

Quote

This is incongruous with history because in real life, tank crews usually bail out after penetration.  Plus, in real life, spalling and shot ricochets after penetration on the inside of the tank, causing further havoc; this does not occur in-game.

this is the first thing you have said i agree with you on.

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Since the question is are British tanks good then the answer would have to be no, can they be fun sure, can people do well with them sure, but good would imply in comparison to other tanks and for the most part British tanks suffer by comparison, solid shot vs HE filled rounds is ridiculous.

 

You have to play perfectly in British tank, just no margin for error, if you get seen and shot first your going to loose, if you shoot first and not take out the gunner you loose even if you do everything right still a good chance of you loosing. Where as with "other" countries tanks there is a more robust margin of error using HE filled rounds most of the time just a pen is enough to kill or completely cripple a tank no need to snipe crew members in a specific order, or you get  a random bounce off your armor that you just don't get in the Brits.

 

With that said I actually enjoy playing the Brits, even though I find myself wanting to throw things after some matches, yesterday first match I play I was in a Churchill  Mk III on the Poland Map in RB and I sniped the German 88mm Truck, I put 13 rounds in him and still didn't get a kill, 13 rounds, now I'm sure someone will come in and say learn where to shoot, which even on the surface is ridiculous, even with no clue where to shoot 13 pens and no kill is crazy and anyone that can't see that looses all credibility, but I do know where to shoot but was about 1000-1100 meters out so pen point accuracy was out even then I moved rounds up and down that truck, 13 rounds, still pisses me off. Sad thing is that's not that uncommon, if your going to play them you just have to prepare yourself for it. 

 

While I do really like the Brits it is more stressful, at least for me, win or loose you just have to be so much more on your game and even then sometimes it's not enough and your getting killed by some idiot that just steams ahead in his Tiger completely oblivious to everything around him. When I need a break I jump in German or Russian tanks and deal some one shot death and just unwind.

 

 I think people should start with Germans or Russians then when their ready for a little more challenge switch to US or Brits but that does present ,what I think, is one of the biggest problems in War Thunder GF and why I don't think you will ever see much improvement with US and Brits tanks.  You have people who have only  played the USSR or German tanks and actually think that their 3, 4, 5 to 1 K/D ratio is simply due to skill and that all the tanks are equal, then when the Brits or US gets anything even half way competitive those individuals start screaming for nerfs with complaints of OP add to that the fact that German and USSR tanks have by far the most players, Gaijin seems to cave to their demands.

 

 

Edited by Harnesh
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13 hours ago, Harnesh said:

Since the question is are British tanks good then the answer would have to be no, can they be fun sure, can people do well with them sure, but good would imply in comparison to other tanks and for the most part British tanks suffer by comparison, solid shot vs HE filled rounds is ridiculous.

 

You have to play perfectly in British tank, just no margin for error, if you get seen and shot first your going to loose, if you shoot first and not take out the gunner you loose even if you do everything right still a good chance of you loosing. Where as with "other" countries tanks there is a more robust margin of error using HE filled rounds most of the time just a pen is enough to kill or completely cripple a tank no need to snipe crew members in a specific order, or you get  a random bounce off your armor that you just don't get in the Brits.

 

With that said I actually enjoy playing the Brits, even though I find myself wanting to throw things after some matches, yesterday first match I play I was in a Churchill  Mk III on the Poland Map in RB and I sniped the German 88mm Truck, I put 13 rounds in him and still didn't get a kill, 13 rounds, now I'm sure someone will come in and say learn where to shoot, which even on the surface is ridiculous, even with no clue where to shoot 13 pens and no kill is crazy and anyone that can't see that looses all credibility, but I do know where to shoot but was about 1000-1100 meters out so pen point accuracy was out even then I moved rounds up and down that truck, 13 rounds, still pisses me off. Sad thing is that's not that uncommon, if your going to play them you just have to prepare yourself for it. 

 

While I do really like the Brits it is more stressful, at least for me, win or loose you just have to be so much more on your game and even then sometimes it's not enough and your getting killed by some idiot that just steams ahead in his Tiger completely oblivious to everything around him. When I need a break I jump in German or Russian tanks and deal some one shot death and just unwind.

 

 I think people should start with Germans or Russians then when their ready for a little more challenge switch to US or Brits but that does present ,what I think, is one of the biggest problems in War Thunder GF and why I don't think you will ever see much improvement with US and Brits tanks.  You have people who have only  played the USSR or German tanks and actually think that their 3, 4, 5 to 1 K/D ratio is simply due to skill and that all the tanks are equal, then when the Brits or US gets anything even half way competitive those individuals start screaming for nerfs with complaints of OP add to that the fact that German and USSR tanks have by far the most players, Gaijin seems to cave to their demands.

 

 

 

Whether something is fun or not is entirely subjective.  Of course people can enjoy them despite being underpowered and harder to use, and in fact I myself usually specifically want to play things that are harder to use and even underpowered.  I'm posting here because I feel it is too underpowered. 

 

British tanks do have nice things going for them; they have fantastic gun depression, which is nice.  They get neutral turning as early as the Cromwell and it's a blazing fast tank; I love fast tanks.  But even though I was prepared for a harder fight due to their lack of APHE, I was just disappointed at how awfully they were balanced.  The Firefly being the absolute best example of everything that's wrong with the tree.

 

There's plenty of potential for fun in the tree, but with the bad balance and incredibly punishing repair costs, it's just so hard to enjoy them.

 

By the way, fringe complaint: while other nations often get their best ammo initially (Germany often gets their APHECBC rounds right up front), the Brits have to grind up for the ammo that just makes their guns usable.  From what I can tell there is literally never a reason to use AP or APC over APCBC.  Not only does this make them even grindier to play, it means you cost yourself more Silver Lions from using ammo (as ammo costs SL), which has a small but not insignificant impact on your SL income, especially at higher tiers.  As I recall the 17 pber APDS costs 200 SL per round, meaning you only need to fire 10 rounds for that to stack up to 2000, and you're going to need to fire several rounds per kill you make.

 

A small complaint, yeah, but combined with all the other flaws, big and small, it stacks up.

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18 hours ago, Harnesh said:

Since the question is are British tanks good then the answer would have to be no, can they be fun sure, can people do well with them sure, but good would imply in comparison to other tanks and for the most part British tanks suffer by comparison, solid shot vs HE filled rounds is ridiculous.

 

You have to play perfectly in British tank, just no margin for error, if you get seen and shot first your going to loose, if you shoot first and not take out the gunner you loose even if you do everything right still a good chance of you loosing. Where as with "other" countries tanks there is a more robust margin of error using HE filled rounds most of the time just a pen is enough to kill or completely cripple a tank no need to snipe crew members in a specific order, or you get  a random bounce off your armor that you just don't get in the Brits.

 

With that said I actually enjoy playing the Brits, even though I find myself wanting to throw things after some matches, yesterday first match I play I was in a Churchill  Mk III on the Poland Map in RB and I sniped the German 88mm Truck, I put 13 rounds in him and still didn't get a kill, 13 rounds, now I'm sure someone will come in and say learn where to shoot, which even on the surface is ridiculous, even with no clue where to shoot 13 pens and no kill is crazy and anyone that can't see that looses all credibility, but I do know where to shoot but was about 1000-1100 meters out so pen point accuracy was out even then I moved rounds up and down that truck, 13 rounds, still pisses me off. Sad thing is that's not that uncommon, if your going to play them you just have to prepare yourself for it. 

 

While I do really like the Brits it is more stressful, at least for me, win or loose you just have to be so much more on your game and even then sometimes it's not enough and your getting killed by some idiot that just steams ahead in his Tiger completely oblivious to everything around him. When I need a break I jump in German or Russian tanks and deal some one shot death and just unwind.

 

 I think people should start with Germans or Russians then when their ready for a little more challenge switch to US or Brits but that does present ,what I think, is one of the biggest problems in War Thunder GF and why I don't think you will ever see much improvement with US and Brits tanks.  You have people who have only  played the USSR or German tanks and actually think that their 3, 4, 5 to 1 K/D ratio is simply due to skill and that all the tanks are equal, then when the Brits or US gets anything even half way competitive those individuals start screaming for nerfs with complaints of OP add to that the fact that German and USSR tanks have by far the most players, Gaijin seems to cave to their demands.

 

 

Great words and honest perspective on your post.
Unfortunately the British have to be cannon fodder for everyone else!

And there are many strange things in the brit tanks!
Anyway one day when I get angry seriously I put many videos for those who deny the reality and lengthens the timing of a possible adjustment by gaijin

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4 hours ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

Se qualcosa è divertente o non è del tutto soggettiva. Naturalmente le persone possono goderne pur essendo sottodimensionato e più difficile da usare, e in effetti io stesso genere specificamente vuole giocare le cose che sono più difficili da usare e anche poco potente. Sto postando qui perché sento che è troppo poco potente. 

 

Carri armati britannici fare avere belle cose vanno per loro; hanno fantastico depressione pistola, che è bello. Ottengono svolta neutrale già a partire dal Cromwell ed è un serbatoio veloce ardente; Amo carri armati veloci. Ma anche se ero preparato per una lotta più difficile a causa della loro mancanza di APHE, ero solo deluso in quanto terribilmente erano equilibrati. La lucciola essere il miglior esempio in assoluto di tutto ciò che c'è di sbagliato con l'albero.

 

C'è un sacco di potenziale per il divertimento nella struttura, ma con il cattivo equilibrio e costi di riparazione incredibilmente punire, è solo così difficile goderne.

 

Tra l'altro, denuncia frangia: mentre altre nazioni, spesso ottengono il loro miglior munizioni inizialmente (Germania ottiene spesso la loro APHECBC arrotonda fino davanti), gli inglesi devono macinare per le munizioni che fa solo le loro pistole utilizzabile. Da quello che posso dire è letteralmente mai una ragione per usare AP o APC sopra APCBC. Non solo questo li rende ancora grindier a giocare, significa che costano da soli Lions più d'argento di utilizzare munizioni (come i costi di munizioni SL), che ha un piccolo ma non trascurabile impatto sul reddito SL, specialmente a livelli più alti. Se non ricordo i 17 APDS pber costa 200 SL per round, il che significa che solo bisogno di sparare 10 giri per quella di impilare fino a 2000, e si sta andando ad avere bisogno di sparare diversi colpi per ogni uccisione effettuata.

 

Una piccola lamentela, sì, ma in combinazione con tutti gli altri difetti, grandi e piccoli, impila in su.

Exact! Well said!

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8 hours ago, NikolaiLev said:

 

Whether something is fun or not is entirely subjective.  Of course people can enjoy them despite being underpowered and harder to use, and in fact I myself usually specifically want to play things that are harder to use and even underpowered.  I'm posting here because I feel it is too underpowered. 

 

British tanks do have nice things going for them; they have fantastic gun depression, which is nice.  They get neutral turning as early as the Cromwell and it's a blazing fast tank; I love fast tanks.  But even though I was prepared for a harder fight due to their lack of APHE, I was just disappointed at how awfully they were balanced.  The Firefly being the absolute best example of everything that's wrong with the tree.

 

There's plenty of potential for fun in the tree, but with the bad balance and incredibly punishing repair costs, it's just so hard to enjoy them.

 

By the way, fringe complaint: while other nations often get their best ammo initially (Germany often gets their APHECBC rounds right up front), the Brits have to grind up for the ammo that just makes their guns usable.  From what I can tell there is literally never a reason to use AP or APC over APCBC.  Not only does this make them even grindier to play, it means you cost yourself more Silver Lions from using ammo (as ammo costs SL), which has a small but not insignificant impact on your SL income, especially at higher tiers.  As I recall the 17 pber APDS costs 200 SL per round, meaning you only need to fire 10 rounds for that to stack up to 2000, and you're going to need to fire several rounds per kill you make.

 

A small complaint, yeah, but combined with all the other flaws, big and small, it stacks up.

I agree.

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On 6/5/2016 at 10:31 PM, Valkyrian0 said:

Hmmm, I would have to say that they require a fair amount of skill to use, they tend to have either no armour or very boxy armour(till later tiers, then it's just thin sloped armour XD) and the guns, some are bad but most great, tend to only get solid shot ammo meaning to have to know every crew location on every tank you could face.  

 

At least give it a try for a while and see how you feel about them.

 

What he means to say is that it takes an exceptional player to manage to super-over-compensate for the tanks being complete **** and get them to just perform at a mediocre level instead of being completely useless.

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