Northman505

Are British Tanks Good?

On 6/5/2016 at 2:31 PM, Valkyrian0 said:

Hmmm, I would have to say that they require a fair amount of skill to use, they tend to have either no armour or very boxy armour(till later tiers, then it's just thin sloped armour XD) and the guns, some are bad but most great, tend to only get solid shot ammo meaning to have to know every crew location on every tank you could face.  

 

At least give it a try for a while and see how you feel about them.

 

Translated: No

 

Even their late tier tanks armor is insufficient, it just looks good on paper. Also having solid shot ammo only pretty much makes them the most frustrating tanks to play. Everyone else gets to run around 1-shotting things they pen, Brits have to spend 4-5x's more time killing a single tank.

Edited by RemoSupremo
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The worst tanks in the game... Implementation of ammo in this game is terribly bad/primitive (Don't know how to call it :facepalm::dntknw:), tier I-IV only shells with explosive filler have chances, Tier V HEAT-FS, and like RemoSupremo said you shoot your enemy 5 times and he blow you apart in 1 shot, I can make 5-10 kills in USSR, GERMAN or US tanks and at tier III I'm happy if I score 2 kills in Firefly.

And this is not frustration or blind rage in my statement, I really tried hard to make best of my performance but If same player have good stats in tanks of every other nations and fails miserably at same br/tier in British tanks it means that is something very wrong with them... or I can score only 4-5 tanks MAX in GB tanks on something so easy like tier III AB, earlier I could score 10 tanks in Firefly or Thunderbolt but now we have fantasy crew replacement and probably something was done/changed with ammo.
There is no logical argument to touch GF in GB tree, you just play them if you like to suffer or something:dntknw: GB tanks were ok after release but since they changed/nerfed something about solid shots they are completely useless.

Edited by ganJ
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On 25/09/2016 at 0:28 AM, Claudy_Focan said:

 OMG !! The link ! i've read it, this is unbelievable ! they lost tanks by thousands, and for some types, nearly 90% of loss ! 

They won the waar because they produce an incredible amount of tanks and they got even more crew tanks

 

These kind of numbers can figure how huge the slaughter was for the russian and how good was the kill ration of the germans ! great info ! Thanks !

 

Allot of the eastern front was basicly a carnival shooting gallery

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16 minutes ago, JohnGR said:

ME GUSTA !!
I really like Unicorn reviews because Miles is not nasty or outrageous, he's just honest :) They have to do something with British solid shots and ammo in general...

goodbadugly.gif

Edited by ganJ
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2 hours ago, ganJ said:

ME GUSTA !!
I really like Unicorn reviews because Miles is not nasty or outrageous, he's just honest :) They have to do something with British solid shots and ammo in general...

goodbadugly.gif

 

Yea APDS ect does need looked at. Personally Its not so bad on tanks that can fire quickly i.e. anything with a 20 pounder, L7 or L11 but for tanks like Conqueror it is a bit of an issue if your first shot does not kill your target due to its long reload time.

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As for British Tanks in general.  I quite like them.  The problem is that in order to take full advantage of their capabilities you have to be a pretty good player to make them work on a regular basis.  In other words they have a high skill cap.  The performance of solid shot is horrible I agree, I think my most recent Unicorn review shows that.  Their low tier vehicles for me were decidedly underwhelming with a few exceptions, but a majority of their high tier vehicles are legitimately fun to play.  Again this is speaking from an above average players perspective (I don't like putting myself on a high horse so to say).  British full size tank ammo does need a second look in terms of all around fragmentation and damage.

 

Sabot rounds on the other hand need to be buffed differently.  What I would like to see them bring back to sabot is the increase in penetration of the SECONDARY fragments coming off the sabot round from the point of penetration.  The damage cone is relatively fine but if you increase the pen of the secondary spall you have a greater chance to inflict devastating damage to enemy crew and multiple modules.  

 

As far as sabot rounds are concerned in their current state, I generally try and aim for disabling hits which allow me to target things like ammo racks.  For example, destroying the cannon breach and/or tranny/engine to disable their movement and ability to engage me and then move in for an easy shot on the ammunition racks.  

 

All in all the british tanks are very good at the higher tiers imo, but they are NOT a nation I would recommend for first time users or players who struggle with tanks in general.  If you are struggling, go play either Germans or Russians, their play styles are easy to pick up on and allow players to do well with a lot less effort and headache.  Not to say that you are inferior by playing those vehicles, I am just saying that they are easier to use in comparison to British vehicles which is something that I think most people will agree with me on. 

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Problem is related with ap ammo without explosive filler, dmg model in this case need some changes, between tiers I-IV game favors only one type of ammo:dntknw: Really this is the only issue with British tanks in my opinion.

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I like my british tanks because they are something new. A new challenge, a different style of fighting, not the usual APHE meta. Sure, in many brackets you are outgunned simply by the fact that APHE matters, but somehow they are still fun.

I played germany only before but then I decided to try another nation. Since I refuse to play soviet tanks because of their treatment ingame and the fact that in regards of APHE they are even better than germany and i'm not that interested in US tanks, I decided to go for the british, especially because I wanted the Chieftain (that sexy "semi" beast).

 

LIke already mentioned here I would say aswell that playing british tanks you will need the most skill. Simply because you will never get APHE and you have to learn tank anatomy and weakspots to take out enemies efficient.

 

manymilesaway has a good video that explains how solid shot mk. I works in high tier games (fv4202)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtPgTZkpWbc

 

killing a tiger 2 H with that ammunition can be pure pain

 

Edited by Rainbowprincess
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Wittmann_Tiger_007.jpg
Infamous Michael Wittmann's Tiger after side shot from Firefly (ammo rack...) Try this in War Thunder with mk 8 shot... (yellow color after direct hit :facepalm:)

Edited by ganJ

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Well, from looking through the rest of the posts, I see that everyone is in agreement :dntknw: :  Yes, British tanks are good for what they are.  As they progress they change what they are built for.  You also have to know the ammo because it's very good at pen but not explosive damage.  That means you need to aim at specific spots to kill enemy.  

 

Early on they use the concept of an Infantry tank that is slow and the gun isn't so good against other tanks.  But they are stout fellows when used right.  Their light tanks are very light but aren't everyone's?  Then there is their version of a medium tank.  It starts out under gunned and under armored so use them like light tanks with a big gun (for a light tank).  You might not even know it's the medium compared to the light :) 

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7 minutes ago, _82AB_GruberRd said:

Well, from looking through the rest of the posts, I see that everyone is in agreement :dntknw: :  Yes, British tanks are good for what they are.  As they progress they change what they are built for.  You also have to know the ammo because it's very good at pen but not explosive damage.  That means you need to aim at specific spots to kill enemy.  

 

Early on they use the concept of an Infantry tank that is slow and the gun isn't so good against other tanks.  But they are stout fellows when used right.  Their light tanks are very light but aren't everyone's?  Then there is their version of a medium tank.  It starts out under gunned and under armored so use them like light tanks with a big gun (for a light tank).  You might not even know it's the medium compared to the light :) 

 

The only issue with that is that in RL a gunner does not aim for specific spots unless they are really close its always center of mass every single time. On top of that why should some players have to pump 3 or 4 rounds into a tank when the tank you are shooting at can finish you with 1 :dntknw: Now don't get me wrong this is not as much of an issue if you have a tank with a high rate of fire like the Centurions or the Chieftain ect but if you are in a tank like the Conqueror or the Fv4004 which both have a slow rate of fire then it does become an issue I have lost count of the number of times I have been in a Conqueror shot at a tank at long range and not done much in the way of damage and been one shot in return :crying: on the other hand though I have had times when I have killed my target with one shot at long range it just seems a bit hit and miss or RNG dependent when it comes to APDS or solid shot really were as for me APHE feels completely different in.

 

The issues with solid shot ammo when compared to rounds such as APHE mean that it can be harder to use British tanks to the point that the average player may not keep at it until tier 5. personally I cant remember the last time I saw an Fv4004 in a battle that was not mine o_o

 

Honestly I am in two minds about the performance of solid shot ammo but as I have already said if you are using a tank with a fast RoF its not so much of an obvious issue as you can pump several rounds into your target before they can shoot back provided you knock out their gunner ect, but if you are in a tank with a slow RoF pumping several rounds into a tank is not easy to do unless they just sit there and let you do it.

 

Personally for me there is a fine line between a tank line being "balanced" and a tank line being "un-balanced" ect and I am not quite sure yet were British tanks are on that line.

 

anyhow I am going back to playing with my Charioteer :D 

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most British tanks are trash because muh solid shots is so ****. that said they can be fun to play because most of them have decent rofs some of them are fairly poor though like the firefly

Edited by Yukari___Akiyama
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ow don't get me wrong this is not as much of an issue if you have a tank with a high rate of fire like the Centurions or the Chieftain ect but if you are in a tank like the Conqueror or the Fv4004 which both have a slow rate of fire then it does become an issue I have lost count of the number of times I have been in a Conqueror shot at a tank at long range

 

Conqueror is so much better than an fv4202. The reload rate doesn't matter because with one Conqueror APDS hit you can do some serious damage. It's high velocity and punches through frontplates, ignites ammunition reliable and it has HESH. Who cares if an FV420 has a high fire rate when your shots barely do any damage.

I actually love my Conqueror. It's even faster than a Chieftain :p:

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As a low skill player my opinion is that british tanks are trash past  br 4. After that you're driving glass cannon firing solid shot with less penetration than the others. You have no armor. Enemy tanks blow you up with one shot without having to look for weakspots while you have to carefully pick those few pixels to get through and when you do, you might kill the gunner and little else.

 

Enemies blow you up with 1 shot almost anywhere. You kill one crew member at a time if you hit weak spots.

Edited by AraArarauna
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You have a real problem with brits don't you.   Yes you have to work harder or at least smarter but brits are very good at tier 4 and 5 though some tanks are better then others.   With use you learn where to shoot most tanks for best effect. 

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On 11/19/2016 at 2:28 AM, Razielkaine said:

You have a real problem with brits don't you.   Yes you have to work harder or at least smarter but brits are very good at tier 4 and 5 though some tanks are better then others.   With use you learn where to shoot most tanks for best effect. 

 The problem with that is though that while you are carefully trying to aim for that one spot that will actually even do any damage, the enemy has already fired at you without even bothering to aim, secure in the knowledge that their shot will penetrate you no matter where it hits and it will instantly kill you.  You simply can't win because you will always take more time to aim and then you won't get a chance to fire. 

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On 25/09/2016 at 0:28 AM, Claudy_Focan said:

 OMG !! The link ! i've read it, this is unbelievable ! they lost tanks by thousands, and for some types, nearly 90% of loss ! 

They won the waar because they produce an incredible amount of tanks and they got even more crew tanks

 

These kind of numbers can figure how huge the slaughter was for the russian and how good was the kill ration of the germans ! great info ! Thanks !

 

bear in mind many of those tanks were tottaly obsolete (t28, bt7s and that in the later war (past 1942) they were on the offensive meaning dug in and prepared positions also the biggest threat being Anti tank emplacements and infantry for example a standard loadout on a t34-85 i believe was 15 AP shells and the rest HE and variants of HE really the chances of encountering german armour was pretty low

Edited by DrPhibes1
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On 01/11/2016 at 8:55 PM, ganJ said:

Wittmann_Tiger_007.jpg
Infamous Michael Wittmann's Tiger after side shot from Firefly (ammo rack...) Try this in War Thunder with mk 8 shot... (yellow color after direct hit :facepalm:)

 

nope wittmans tiger burned and then detonated (reported whole yet smouldering by retreating german troops) 

 

but yes ammo is stupid with RNG

 

 

Edited by DrPhibes1
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 The problem with that is though that while you are carefully trying to aim for that one spot that will actually even do any damage, the enemy has already fired at you without even bothering to aim, secure in the knowledge that their shot will penetrate you no matter where it hits and it will instantly kill you.  You simply can't win because you will always take more time to aim and then you won't get a chance to fire. 

 

I'm grinding through lower tier British tanks, and if the first shot doesn't kill you and all an enemy has to do is hose you down with machinegun fire to disable your crew, and while you're getting all the "The loader is wounded! The driver is knocked out!" messages they kill you with the second shot.

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I enjoyed the British tanks until I hit the Avenger, Comet, Challenger and Crusader (40 MM SPAA).  I did not mind the Firefly, maybe it was easy enough to spade or I was used to the armor level of the American tanks.  But the tanks I mentioned are brutal and I am not looking forward to the 6.3 tank with no armor and the 20 lb gun.

 

This is in arcade battles, so there is no flanking or sneaking or hiding because there is a great big red flashing sign over my head, saying shoot me.  And I have been in a group of 5 or 6 friendlies (near the back of the pack) and the enemy has attacked me first because they know it is a one shot kill (so they will kill something before they die to the other 4 or 5 tanks there.)

 

 

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22 minutes ago, KillerAce4 said:

I enjoyed the British tanks until I hit the Avenger, Comet, Challenger and Crusader (40 MM SPAA).  I did not mind the Firefly, maybe it was easy enough to spade or I was used to the armor level of the American tanks.  But the tanks I mentioned are brutal and I am not looking forward to the 6.3 tank with no armor and the 20 lb gun.

 

This is in arcade battles, so there is no flanking or sneaking or hiding because there is a great big red flashing sign over my head, saying shoot me.  And I have been in a group of 5 or 6 friendlies (near the back of the pack) and the enemy has attacked me first because they know it is a one shot kill (so they will kill something before they die to the other 4 or 5 tanks there.)

 

 

 

Hull down the FV4202 is quite nice, sexy even.

 

The Avenger and Chally serve a purpose. You must suffer to be proven worthy of the Centurion MK10 which is just all kinds of fun.

 

The MK3 Cent is a good tank, just have to be sneaky and use the APDS at range, hull down.

 

 

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Just to prove my point, with Mk 8 ammo loaded into my 17 pound pea shooter, I fired at 100 meters at a T-34-85 at a 90 degree angle side shot - 45 mm of armor for the Russian, 160 mm of penetration for me.  Result?  The round bounces off with no damage.  The Russian turns to face me, and before I can reload, the Russian tank stops, turns its turret, and kills me.  This is pretty much what it is like playing the British.

 

Update: And then I just had another match - Tiger tank at point blank range.  102 mm MAX.  90 degree angle.  177 mm of penetration.  Bounce.  Reload.  Shoot again.  Bounce.  He shoots me.  Insta kill.  Then I faced a US Sherman.  100 meters.  Side shot.  Bounce.  Really, these British guns are useless.  They almost never penetrate when they should and even when they do they usually do little to no damage.  

Edited by Davenprof
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Take a look at the several other threads around the forums, or even take a spin in them yourself (though you'll need to get to 5.0 to really see them fail hard) to get an answer.  I dare say most matches you'll see (and certainly most matches I'm in) the team with brits will almost always lose unless they also get USSR on their side, though that only applies to Tank Realistic.

 

The question of why they're bad is a complicated one, and one answered in this here post:

 

Edited by NikolaiLev

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