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[Developer] RB mode and illegal modifications


I play RB because there are no markers. So obviously that's what I'd prefer. However, like a few posts above me, I have to say I don't think you actually do have the right, or should, strike down videos on youtube because of it. You can take action against his game account, remove his videos from Live, remove all links to them you see on forums you run. But using the copyright claim system on youtube to strike down his videos would be an abuse of the system; and given how murky and 'off' the DMCA copyright system on youtube is, the way it's so primed for abuse already... it's already an ugly scene. It shouldn't be made more ugly.

 

If you've got some other way of removing videos(going through the creator, rather than through youtube), that's another thing entirely. But I've followed the copyright claim problem on youtube for awhile yet; so while I'd rather you fight the cheaters, when you mention forcibly taking down videos, I don't know of any other way of doing it short of taking him to court and saying "He agreed to this document that said he wouldn't." And I think using the youtube claim system would be a vast overreach, as well as set a very bad precedent against freedom of information and communication.

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Re-adding markers in RB would be huge step back. In my opinion such videos/posts should be removed. Such videos are like negative advertisement, you will "lynch" 1 cheater but gain 5 more, even though video is purely against cheating. Btw, thanks for informing community and asking for opinion (same goes with EC discussion).

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It is less popular, so it less likely cheat _makers_ would make it for it's smaller audience with same effort.

And there was never markers in SB, even when RB have them so it kinda strange idea.

 

There was indeed markers in SB, just on the minimap, not nameplates.

 

Remember when a ton of us players were asking for minimap markers to be removed? Then you finally did it, but also pretty much ruined SB GF in the process by adding planes and making them events, not queue by BR.

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Here is my opinion on this matter;

 

1) Enabling markers in GF RB again is not a good idea. Currently,not having markers above your head allows you to effectively perform flanking and ambush attacks and also gives lightly armored vehicles like light tanks,certain tank destroyers etc a fighting chance. So in short,it gives you a lot of tactical options,options you wouldn't have if there was markers. It also makes the game,as Anton said,a lot more immersive, challenging and fun. 

 

2) Cheaters and every other individual that promotes,advertises and discusses the use of cheats and illegal modifications should be punished accordingly to the rules and without exception. The current system of fighting illegal activity is good and should be continued with.

 

Continue with the fight against cheating! If cheaters can't win a match in War Thunder by normal means,why should we let them win this battle?

This ^

 

Much better than what I said. :good: :salute:

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Well if option 2 is what you are going for, then at least add the SB as a regular game-mode and change the Event SB to HB (Historical Battles). Most of us play RB because AB is to arcady and SB is just unavailable (Unavailable tanks, wrong countries. etc.) hence we play RB. So adding the markers will most likely ruin the game for us if the SB stays as it currently is and at that point i'd say most of the playerbase will be infuriated and dissapointed in the game.

 

So either you bring back SB as it used to be (choose AB, RB or SB type of menu) or keep RB as it is.

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Dear RB players!

As you all know, one of the main differences between AB and RB is the existence of "enemy markers". Initially RB GF mode has the same visibility system as Arcade, but due to community requests, we switched off enemy markers in RB. This gives better immersion and deeper tactics but also leads to an ability to illegally modify the client of the game to gain an unfair advantage by showing this marker to someone (a.k.a. "Wallhack").

Due to the online nature of the game and really large distances of spotting/visibility as well as the distance of unconditional spotting (hearing distance) it is not technically possible to completely remove such threat, without showing actual information on a client (AB enemy markers). This was to be expected and we conveyed this concern, but all together we chose the "fight with bad guys" approach, since such an unfair advantage is relatively small (although still existent).

We routinely find and ban such bad guys, and at the end of last year we decided to announce "waves of bans".This was a very successful way, and we have seen a constant decrease of numbers in such cases, from an initial couple of hundred to almost twenty last month. Of course, it is still a sword & shield competition, since we can only start to find illegal modifications after they have been made, not in advance, but the situation was under control and slowly improving.

As a well established industry-standard, we can not forbid the "bad guys" to play or ban them immediately after EULA violation - this will help the creators of such software to find ways to get around our methods. So, we usually do that on an approximately monthly basis (or if the chances of seeing one in a battle became higher than 0.5%), we also do not always ban those who did it if they have first tried it not long before the ban wave or even if they did it only a couple of times. Again, this is the industry standard of a "penalty approach" - it really helps to fight illegal software.

However, our rules forbid any advertising or discussion of such illegal modifications, since it does only harm. Any such "discussion" works both as an advertisement of illegal modification, and ”convinces incorrectly” a lot of people, that any good player or any lucky shot is because someone is cheating (I have personally been reported as "cheater" multiple time).

That's why it is forbidden by our rules and we strike down such videos as soon as we find them (usually it is advertisement videos from the software creators).

However, a very respected youtuber PhlyDaily has recently released a video of this kind. This video, regardless of the "I am against cheaters" disclaimer was working very much as an advertisement of illegal software, basically working against it's own disclaimer (it also discouraged players in participating in RB, exaggerating the current situation). Thanks to this video, we are already seeing some growth of interest for such software. There is no help to be gained from such a video that the developers or our community can get. It also violates our EULA/Terms of Use as it works as an advertisement of commercial software, and thus violates our public copyright license for youtubers as well.

We immediately contacted PhlyDaily, but he refused to remove this video (regardless of its violation of our license), and although he hid it later it is still available by direct link. Of course, we have rights to strike down this video (and others of such kind), as it is not only violating our public license, but also damages the game for honest players. PhlyDaily is a very respected (by both us and community) youtuber and we don't want this strike to look like an act of censorship.

We can also return enemy markers back to the RB game mode, and that will effectively put an end to any "wallhack" in that mode, like in AB. Otherwise it is impossible to completely overcome these "cheaters" in RB, we can only ban them after a wrongdoing (which we already were doing, and very effectively). However, if we can't fight such advertisements, than what now is obviously not much of a problem will become very significant one, and can possibly ruin the experience for everyone.

We had a very intense and lengthy internal discussion in what to do with the situation and then decided to let our community choose.

So, what shall we choose, besides finding and punishing bad guys and announce that on the forums, as we already doing?

1) Strike any such videos, according to our license, and fight any advertisement (or "discussion") of illegal modifications in general, regardless of any "disclaimers" in a video.
2) Change the game mode design - Return markers to RB mode and put an end to any reason for modifications.

Please vote!





First of all- no. Phlydaily is not "advertising" any cheats. He just found a cheater and publicly condemned him, exposing unfair devices said abuser used to improve his own stats.
This is not advertising. Unless you want it to be, to punish Phly.


Whad did you expect, dear CEO? It is a backfire from your own policy of denying and silencing existence of such tools. It was obvious that someone with power of media such as youtube sooner or later will spot a cheater and make a fuss about it, as if it was a huge discovery. Keeping community non informed is not the way. And now you have it- cheating scandal.

By banning those GOF guys you basically admitted and confirmed existence of cheats.
Yet there still is that one point in terms and rules that forbids any discussion of cheats. What for? Why you still want to silence FACTS? Way to go.

Now I DEFINITELY don't understand why exactly RB mode is to be punished? Or more precisely- why whole clean playerbase has to suffer because of some people are unfair cheaters? Because markers would make it harder for those people to cheat?

Untrue. He will still have unfair advantage, knowing position and direction of movement of enemy tanks and reduced foliage, to make precise shoot everytime. Or aimbot. You probably seen how wallhack works on Counter Strike. And whole clean playerbase will suffer, because again, RB with markers will be nothing more than AB, that I personally, lots of people from my squadron, and FOR SURE many many more people in general, refuse to play. In other words yes, I say you will lose great amount of RB players, me as first example.



For God's sake, please DON'T return markers to RB. It will not restrain cheaters in any way, and all players will suffer.
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The banning of "cheaters" is efficient, Anton's point is we cannot fight the scaremongering, especially with widely viewed tubers. Sad I know. 8(


Punishing whole RB playerbase is not the way, especially when its obvious that it will not stop cheaters' adventage. Read my previous post please.
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If you want RISE of Online, Markers are THE ONLY WAY to help people CONTINUE playing WT after AB mode becomes too easy for them. But now, ENTRY LEVEL in RB is too high.
This is not question about CHEATS, it is a VITAL problem of Online. 

The ONLY CHOICE - return Markers.

Starting Holy-war against Streamers and YT blogers - is interesting only for kids.
And i dont think, that you will winn this "Holy War"

Online in february 2015 WITH markers in RB was 100-110k without any EVENTS.
Online AFTER removing markers become 60-70k in two weaks,
If you love WT, markers in RB is the only way.
If you want play without them, you can go in SB.

Are u going to make video about it?

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  • Senior Game Master

I vote change the mode and give rb markers. I dont even play RB but I have to deal with all the WALL HACKS...CHEATER comments in the chat. If it will eliminate that issue its worth it to me... put markers back in RB.

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RB is SUPPOSED to be harder than AB so it would be a bit silly to put markers back. If people want markers then play in AB. RB without markers is a progression of sorts, and makes the game more complex and involved.

 

Instead, go after these guys HARD! I'll help if you want  :yes: . I hate cheats.

Edited by Juiceter
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Almost the entire reason I play Realistic Battles is the lack of markers, so I would not like to see them there. Many tanks are incredibly painful to play in arcade because markers make you an instant target, if you have no armour this is somewhat of a death sentence, RB can help these tanks a lot.

 

I don't consider Simulator battles to be an alternative if this was to go through really, as you are heavily restricted on the vehicles available at any one time, and the maps are much much larger, which makes it rather problematic for anyone who has to drive a slow vehicle.

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I vote change the mode and give rb markers. I dont even play RB but I have to deal with all the WALL HACKS...CHEATER comments in the chat. If it will eliminate that issue its worth it to me... put markers back in RB.


Edited - Such "special" comment made me respond less politely than I should have... Edited by Serpiko82
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Please don't arcadisize RB more than it already is ! 

 

I can't stand the markers in tank games (as it removes basic tank tactics) and putting them in would effectively just cause me to leave ...

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I vote change the mode and give rb markers. I dont even play RB but I have to deal with all the WALL HACKS...CHEATER comments in the chat. If it will eliminate that issue its worth it to me... put markers back in RB.

 

Are you kidding, right?

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Online in february 2015 WITH markers in RB was 100-110k without any EVENTS.
Online AFTER removing markers become 60-70k in two weaks,
If you love WT, markers in RB is the only way.
If you want play without them, you can go in SB.

 

RB without markers became more popular than RB with markers, SB and events COMBINED

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I vote change the mode and give rb markers. I dont even play RB but I have to deal with all the WALL HACKS...CHEATER comments in the chat. If it will eliminate that issue its worth it to me... put markers back in RB.

 

So you don't play RB, but want it to be modified for an unrelated reason.  8/s

There will always be whining bad/casual players about things they do not understand at all in the game, destroying a whole gamemode won't change anything, please.

 

We play RB for two reasons :

 

  • No aim-assist (the terrible green cross...)
  • No markers.

I played in Thunder league, i can garantee you RB + marker doesn't feel good at all, really, this is really strange to play and way too much arcadish.

Edited by Leandrys
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However, SB mode is less popular than RB, and, so there is less reason for cheat developers to develop it for SB players only. It costs them money too, you know,


You made it less popular, so don't use it as argument, please.



Besides- I am asking you- is there a way to FORCE game files checking with the start of game?
Now you can launch game without checking files. Make it impossible

Is it possible? :)
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I vote change the mode and give rb markers. I dont even play RB but I have to deal with all the WALL HACKS...CHEATER comments in the chat. If it will eliminate that issue its worth it to me... put markers back in RB.

Are you intoxicated? You will have people accused of cheating no matter how good or bad the anti-cheat system is. 

Yewhew (Posted )

Do Not:
1.1.1. Insult any forum members or forum staff.
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RB without markers becazme more popular than RB with markers, SB and events COMBINED

 
 
Верните старый СБ без маркеров и вся проблема выбора отпадёт.
 
Те кто хочет маркеров - останутся в РБ.
Те кто не хочет - в СБ.
 
Притом, сетапы нужно оставить, они должны дополнять а не взаимоисключать друг друга.
 
 
google translate
 
Bring back the old SB without markers and the whole problem of choice will disappear.
 
Those who want the markers - will remain in RB.
Those who do not want - in the SB.
 
Moreover, the setup should be left, they should be complementary and not mutually exclusive.
Edited by Felmyst
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