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[Developer] RB mode and illegal modifications


Dear RB players!

 

As you all know, one of the main differences between AB and RB is the existence of "enemy markers". Initially RB GF mode has the same visibility system as Arcade, but due to community requests, we switched off enemy markers in RB. This gives better immersion and deeper tactics but also leads to an ability to illegally modify the client of the game to gain an unfair advantage by showing this marker to someone (a.k.a. "Wallhack").

 

Due to the online nature of the game and really large distances of spotting/visibility as well as the distance of unconditional spotting (hearing distance) it is not technically possible to completely remove such threat, without showing actual information on a client (AB enemy markers). This was to be expected and we conveyed this concern, but all together we chose the  "fight with bad guys" approach, since such an unfair advantage is relatively small (although still existent).

 

We routinely find and ban such bad guys, and at the end of last year we decided to announce "waves of bans".This was a very successful way, and we have seen a constant decrease of numbers in such cases, from an initial couple of hundred to almost twenty last month. Of course, it is still a sword & shield competition, since we can only start to find illegal modifications after they have been made, not in advance, but the situation was under control and slowly improving.

 

As a well established industry-standard, we can not forbid the "bad guys" to play or ban them immediately after EULA violation - this will help the creators of such software to find ways to get around our methods. So, we usually do that on an approximately monthly basis (or if the chances of seeing one in a battle became higher than 0.5%), we also do not always ban those who did it if they have first tried it not long before the ban wave or even if they did it only a couple of times. Again, this is the industry standard of a "penalty approach" - it really helps to fight illegal software.

 

However, our rules forbid any advertising or discussion of such illegal modifications, since it does only harm. Any such "discussion" works both as an advertisement of illegal modification, and ”convinces incorrectly” a lot of people, that any good player or any lucky shot is because someone is cheating (I have personally been reported as "cheater" multiple time).

 

That's why it is forbidden by our rules and we strike down such videos as soon as we find them (usually it is advertisement videos from the software creators).

 

However, a very respected youtuber PhlyDaily has recently released a video of this kind. This video, regardless of the "I am against cheaters" disclaimer was working very much as an advertisement of illegal software, basically working against it's own disclaimer (it also discouraged players in participating in RB, exaggerating the current situation). Thanks to this video, we are already seeing some growth of interest for such software. There is no help to be gained from such a video that the developers or our community can get. It also violates our EULA/Terms of Use as it works as an advertisement of commercial software, and thus violates our public copyright license for youtubers as well.

 

We immediately contacted PhlyDaily, but he refused to remove this video (regardless of its violation of our license), and although he hid it later it is still available by direct link. Of course, we have  rights to strike down this video (and others of such kind), as it is not only violating our public license, but also damages the game for honest players. PhlyDaily is a very respected (by both us and community) youtuber and we don't want this strike to look like an act of censorship.

 

We can also return enemy markers back to the RB game mode, and that will effectively put an end to any "wallhack" in that mode, like in AB. Otherwise it is impossible to completely overcome these "cheaters" in RB, we can only ban them after a wrongdoing (which we already were doing, and very effectively). However, if we can't fight such advertisements, than what now is obviously not much of a problem will become very significant one, and can possibly ruin the experience for everyone.

 

We had a very intense and lengthy internal discussion in what to do with the situation and then decided to let our community choose.

 

So, what shall we choose, besides finding and punishing bad guys and announce that on the forums, as we already doing?

 

1) Strike any such videos, according to our license, and fight any advertisement (or "discussion") of illegal modifications in general, regardless of any "disclaimers" in a video.

2) Change the game mode design - Return markers to RB mode and put an end to any reason for modifications.

 

Please vote!

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ima bit torn on it
on one half i dont want markers on the other half i dont think you should strike videos that do show it it does exist and it is their. honestly their isnt a point in trying to hide the fact theirs cheats because it DOES exist
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Please DON'T put back enemy markers in RB. You would be punishing the whole RB community with an overall worse experience in order to put an end to "limited" damages done by a minority.

It would be like closing all roads to prevent some people from exceeding the speed limit.
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Dear CEO!

 

If you return the markers to RB ground forces, the "bad guys" will still use hacks/illegal softwares to spot enemies in SB mode.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

So, returning the markers is not a solution. That's my opinion.

Edited by Gelesztaa
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1) Strike any such videos, according to our license, and fight any advertisement (or "discussion") of illegal modifications in general, regardless of any "disclaimers" in a video.

2) Change the game mode design - Return markers to RB mode and put an end to any reason for modifications.

 

Please vote!

How about neither? Many players already know that wallhacks and aimbots exist. Discussion of them and proof that they exist in WT should not be considered advertisement of hacks.

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Dont ruin RB because of a few cheaters, instead try to develope easier ways to find and ban players with such software to discourage players from using it even more.

The banning of "cheaters" is efficient, Anton's point is we cannot fight the scaremongering, especially with widely viewed tubers. Sad I know. 8(

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First, I did not realize we could reply to this.

 

 
Personally, I have always liked the marker free RB as you could not get spotted as a Sniper (TD or similar) when hiding and, if you were spotted, it meant the enemy player had skill and good eyes. And I think if we restored markers, it would really make RB a lot less skill needed and need less to say, less fun.
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Do not modify the game to compensate for cheaters, there will always be abusing people, you'll just ruin the RB mode by doing so and putting the markers back.

 

Thunder League feels allready a bit awkward by markers + RB handling, do not put the same combination into random battles, that would just kill the mode and i'd be in the first ones to leave the game definitely.

 

Find them, strike them, ban them, shame then, this is the best message you can send to your community and each banned guy = people satisfied and ready to put money in the game if they trust it.

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If you want RISE of Online, Markers are THE ONLY WAY to help people CONTINUE playing WT after AB mode becomes too easy for them. But now, ENTRY LEVEL in RB is too high.
This is not question about CHEATS, it is a VITAL problem of Online. 

The ONLY CHOICE - return Markers.

Starting Holy-war against Streamers and YT blogers - is interesting only for kids.
And i dont think, that you will winn this "Holy War"

Online in february 2015 WITH markers in RB was 100-110k without any EVENTS.
Online AFTER removing markers become 60-70k in two weaks,
If you love WT, markers in RB is the only way.
If you want play without them, you can go in SB.

Edited by alconafter
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ima bit torn on it
on one half i dont want markers on the other half i dont think you should strike videos that do show it it does exist and it is their. honestly their isnt a point in trying to hide the fact theirs cheats because it DOES exist

no one is denying existence with client side tools, but their number is dwindling thanks to active combat of the apps, but we cannot fight media making everyone look over their shoulders as a potential hack. It exacerbates a minor situation (look at the last batch of bans)

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Dear CEO!

 

If you return the markers to RB ground forces, the "bad guys" will still use hacks/illegal softwares to spot enemies in SB mode.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

So, returning the markers is not a solution. That's my opinion.

You are right. So in other words, it would only solve half the problem and create 2 new ones:

 

People complaining about the markers being back in RB, and others complaining about the hackers in SB. So in effect, we should fix the one problem: continuing to fight as best as we can against the hackers and illegal software devs and advertisements, and not create two new ones as listed above.

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If the voting will result in the markers' comeback to RB ground battles, you guys really should consider making SIMULATOR playable outside the event tab, as it was long ago.

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ima bit torn on it
on one half i dont want markers on the other half i dont think you should strike videos that do show it it does exist and it is their. honestly their isnt a point in trying to hide the fact theirs cheats because it DOES exist

There is no hiding anything, we constantly announce wave bans.

 

But between "not hiding" and "not advertising" there is a huge difference.

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why does the same cheat for RB not ruin SB?

 

Also is my sound mod considered an illegal modification?

 

 

Regardless i would not like to see markers return to RB so i would prefer you to strike the vids. 

 

Become the Inquisition and purge all memory of cheats to shield us from its Heretical taint 

Edited by B0ris_the_blade
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no one is denying existence with client side tools, but their number is dwindling thanks to active combat of the apps, but we cannot fight media making everyone look over their shoulders as a potential hack. It exacerbates a minor situation (look at the last batch of bans)

Then dont try to hide said vids
after watching said vid by phly i dont know if i was the only one but it didnt seem fair and if anything made me even less likely to want to use cheats. im all for the forum being ageinst it other wise youd probally have plenty of threads littered with "hack" complaints if it really is such a minor situation i don't see why its so heavilly enforced (thats only a half truth i do get why its so harshly enforced)
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How about neither? Many players already know that wallhacks and aimbots exist. Discussion of them and proof that they exist in WT should not be considered advertisement of hacks.

Unfortunately, it is not an option. As you can imagine "discussion" benefits of something for 300k subscribers IS advertisement, regardless of disclaimers. We _already_ see... say, more interest about it.


its a part of online gaming. work as hard as you can to find and ban hackers.

That is not even a question. But we can't fight media effect. 

Most of major online publishers are NOT allowing such videos.


why does the same cheat for RB not ruin SB?

 

Oh, it will. Of course, it is not likely we will introduce markers to SB :)

 

However, SB mode is less popular than RB, and, so there is less reason for cheat developers to develop it for SB players only. It costs them money too, you know,

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If you return markers to RB I'll move to SB, and probably cheaters too, so the problem won't be solved.

 

I don't know who is voting for markers, I'm really surprised about that. Many players love to play RB because of the absence of markers for tanks and especially planes.

 

Honestly, the best move should be to add historical gunsights for tanks, to improve gamemodes and map spawn design, and maybe to start thinking in additional ways to kick/ban cheaters from games (CS:GO can be a good example).

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There is no hiding anything, we constantly announce wave bans.

 

But between "not hiding" and "not advertising" there is a huge difference.

First, I can not even begin to express appreciation for the bans of the violators.

 

Second, As practical and easy as it sounds just to return markers to RB, unfortunately it would cause more problems than it would fix. See my quote bellow:

 

You are right. So in other words, it would only solve half the problem and create 2 new ones:

 

People complaining about the markers being back in RB, and others complaining about the hackers in SB. So in effect, we should fix the one problem: continuing to fight as best as we can against the hackers and illegal software devs and advertisements, and not create two new ones as listed above.

In other words it would just mean more backlash from the community which is something we can do with out. I understand that we can't necessarily fight the media, but in my honest opinion, it's a better struggle than having an unhappy community on our shoulders.

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Returning markers in RB mode will return 100k online. Just like old times. And also there will no point to play with ultra-low graphics for advantage.

SAUBER_KH7 (Posted )

I have seen the difference between ULQ and high graphics and there is no "ULQ Advantage" anymore since the last patch or two.
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Please don't add markers back to RB. Hacking is a problem in every game and punishing the regular players to "fix" it isn't worth it. If the markers do come back, you probably wont see me playing the game nearly as often as I do now, and I don't even play that much anymore. 

 

Edit: Thinking about the censorship made me decide to remove my vote and not vote for either option in this poll, which is what you seem to want. I don't think it is fair to strike videos that discuss hacking, because it is an issue in all games whether or not you like it. Striking videos that show the creator hacking, sure, but showing replays of suspected hacking no. Imagine if Valve started striking Overwatch videos or videos of suspected hackers. The discussion of hackers is a valid topic and should not be met with censorship. 

Please add another option to the poll titled "Neither", because right now the situation is very black and white. 

Edited by Th0s
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Putting markers back in deletes all the skill in RB when it comes to maneuver tactics.  Half the game should be in how to learn how to move without being seen, and how to pick the best spots.   Putting markers back in destroys any hope for lightly armoured tanks that depend on not being seen to be a success.

 

If markers go back in, RP becomes a game mode I really don't want to play - leaving sim battles, which currently with the vehicle setlist being implemented, a non-starter. And as others said, all it will do is move the wallhackers to Sim Battles.

 

Thirdly, changing the game to accommodate hackers is very much the same as saying, "OK, hacking is fine as long as you keep it mild", obviously, this isn't the case, and it isn't the impression you want to give, but that is what will happen by and large: a surrender to the hackers.

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If you return markers to RB I'll move to SB, and probably cheaters too, so the problem won't be solved.

 

It is less popular, so it less likely cheat _makers_ would make it for it's smaller audience with same effort.

And there was never markers in SB, even when RB have them so it kinda strange idea.

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There is no hiding anything, we constantly announce wave bans.
 
But between "not hiding" and "not advertising" there is a huge difference.

i suppose yes but i dont see how that video was advertising anything (i guess indirectly it was but if its a indirect thing almost anything that claims someone cheats could be taken as a advertisment) if im way off here and not understanding you clearly please let me know
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